The coaching search revisited

[99gator]

Let’s rewind the clock a little.

• How quickly we forget. The last coaching search was a mess from the get go. It resulted in an AD getting fired and Fulmer having to come to the rescue in the first place.
• The hires from that year have been an epic fail. The “A” list were Chip Kelly and Scott Frost. I’ll cut Frost some slack because I think he had more work to do than anyone else, but it’s still a fail at this point. Dan Mullen was largely viewed as a shoulder shrug hire. Not bad, but not all that great either. Jimbo has had some success and A&M has gotten better every year. The only guy to win a championship at this point…..Mario Cristobal. Yep, Cristobal. But, there are a lot of Willie Taggarts in that group.
• I think people need to remember what a home run hire is at this point. Once in a blue moon, you have a guy build a dominant program at a doormat. But, that’s extremely rare. You’re normal “home run hire” is a guy like Matt Campbell who hasn’t won anything, but has done as well or better than anyone else who’s coached where he is. Campbell isn’t going to win the Big XII, so judging him that way is not fair. IMO, this is the kind of candidate you need to look for. A head coach, with experience, who has overperformed where he is even if the results don’t appear to be spectacular on the surface. He's 40 years old. He's been a head coach at 2 places. His first head coaching gig was at 32 years old.

Pruitt has failed, IMO. But, why would I pass judgment that way? Is it because he hasn’t won a championship? No. Is it because he’s 0-8 against Florida, Georgia, and Alabama? No.


He has failed because he has not separated Tennessee from the “other” pack out there in the league. By failing to do that, Tennessee did not go bowling in 2018. They robbed themselves of a better bowl in 2019. What bowl do they go to at 9-3 instead of 7-5? And they are going to fail to go to a bowl game this year. That isn’t because of Florida, Georgia, and Alabama. That’s because of Vanderbilt, Georgia State, BYU, Kentucky and Arkansas.


At this point, they were supposed to be clearly better than the also rans of the league and they aren’t. The other obvious thing is to start naming things Tennessee does really well or does at the level they need to. I can’t think of any.


But, the reality is the “home run hire” is a fantasy, not just at Tennessee, but everywhere.

JMO

 

[Rickyvol77]

Let’s rewind the clock a little.

• How quickly we forget. The last coaching search was a mess from the get go. It resulted in an AD getting fired and Fulmer having to come to the rescue in the first place.
• The hires from that year have been an epic fail. The “A” list were Chip Kelly and Scott Frost. I’ll cut Frost some slack because I think he had more work to do than anyone else, but it’s still a fail at this point. Dan Mullen was largely viewed as a shoulder shrug hire. Not bad, but not all that great either. Jimbo has had some success and A&M has gotten better every year. The only guy to win a championship at this point…..Mario Cristobal. Yep, Cristobal. But, there are a lot of Willie Taggarts in that group.
• I think people need to remember what a home run hire is at this point. Once in a blue moon, you have a guy build a dominant program at a doormat. But, that’s extremely rare. You’re normal “home run hire” is a guy like Matt Campbell who hasn’t won anything, but has done as well or better than anyone else who’s coached where he is. Campbell isn’t going to win the Big XII, so judging him that way is not fair. IMO, this is the kind of candidate you need to look for. A head coach, with experience, who has overperformed where he is even if the results don’t appear to be spectacular on the surface. He's 40 years old. He's been a head coach at 2 places. His first head coaching gig was at 32 years old.

Pruitt has failed, IMO. But, why would I pass judgment that way? Is it because he hasn’t won a championship? No. Is it because he’s 0-8 against Florida, Georgia, and Alabama? No.


He has failed because he has not separated Tennessee from the “other” pack out there in the league. By failing to do that, Tennessee did not go bowling in 2018. They robbed themselves of a better bowl in 2019. What bowl do they go to at 9-3 instead of 7-5? And they are going to fail to go to a bowl game this year. That isn’t because of Florida, Georgia, and Alabama. That’s because of Vanderbilt, Georgia State, BYU, Kentucky and Arkansas.


At this point, they were supposed to be clearly better than the also rans of the league and they aren’t. The other obvious thing is to start naming things Tennessee does really well or does at the level they need to. I can’t think of any.


But, the reality is the “home run hire” is a fantasy, not just at Tennessee, but everywhere.

JMO

Agree but people now a days are too young to remember the rebuilding jobs in the 70s and 80s where Tennessee lost to Army and Rutgers and Virginia etc. The new generations think anything less than a 4 year rebuild is worthy of immediate firing. And what’s worse is they incorrectly assume some “hot” coach who is doing well with weak schedule at a completely different situation would do better.
I remember when people on this board wanted the likes of Fleck, Franklin, Leach, Tubberville, Ferentz, Harbaugh, Kelly, Chizik, Miles, Richt, Fuente, Rodriguez, Cristobal, Hawkins, Brohm, Johnson, Frost, etc and they are all fired or struggling

There is no “dream” coach that would win big here or anywhere else. They are ALL a game of hit and miss.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Fleck, Franklin, Leach, Tubberville, Ferentz, Harbaugh, Kelly, Chizik, Miles, Richt, Fuente, Rodriguez, Cristobal, Hawkins, Brohm, Johnson, Frost

How many of those would have been embarrassed by Kentucky in year 3 and have no serviceable option at QB?

 

[Toujours Pret]

How many of those would have been embarrassed by Kentucky in year 3 and have no serviceable option at QB?

Well, a fair number of them TBH.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

Other schools actually finish rebuilding in a year or 2. Tennessee has been rebuilding for a decade

 

[Jaws]

Regarding home run hires:

Coaching record after 32 games:

- Steve Spurrier - 26-6
- Urban Meyer - 26-6
- Dan Mullen - 26-6

Elite company.

 

[rjd970]

I find it funny how home run hires are so rare for UT and not for anyone else.

 

[CAVPUT]

Let’s rewind the clock a little.

• How quickly we forget. The last coaching search was a mess from the get go. It resulted in an AD getting fired and Fulmer having to come to the rescue in the first place.
• The hires from that year have been an epic fail. The “A” list were Chip Kelly and Scott Frost. I’ll cut Frost some slack because I think he had more work to do than anyone else, but it’s still a fail at this point. Dan Mullen was largely viewed as a shoulder shrug hire. Not bad, but not all that great either. Jimbo has had some success and A&M has gotten better every year. The only guy to win a championship at this point…..Mario Cristobal. Yep, Cristobal. But, there are a lot of Willie Taggarts in that group.
• I think people need to remember what a home run hire is at this point. Once in a blue moon, you have a guy build a dominant program at a doormat. But, that’s extremely rare. You’re normal “home run hire” is a guy like Matt Campbell who hasn’t won anything, but has done as well or better than anyone else who’s coached where he is. Campbell isn’t going to win the Big XII, so judging him that way is not fair. IMO, this is the kind of candidate you need to look for. A head coach, with experience, who has overperformed where he is even if the results don’t appear to be spectacular on the surface. He's 40 years old. He's been a head coach at 2 places. His first head coaching gig was at 32 years old.

Pruitt has failed, IMO. But, why would I pass judgment that way? Is it because he hasn’t won a championship? No. Is it because he’s 0-8 against Florida, Georgia, and Alabama? No.


He has failed because he has not separated Tennessee from the “other” pack out there in the league. By failing to do that, Tennessee did not go bowling in 2018. They robbed themselves of a better bowl in 2019. What bowl do they go to at 9-3 instead of 7-5? And they are going to fail to go to a bowl game this year. That isn’t because of Florida, Georgia, and Alabama. That’s because of Vanderbilt, Georgia State, BYU, Kentucky and Arkansas.


At this point, they were supposed to be clearly better than the also rans of the league and they aren’t. The other obvious thing is to start naming things Tennessee does really well or does at the level they need to. I can’t think of any.


But, the reality is the “home run hire” is a fantasy, not just at Tennessee, but everywhere.

JMO

Batter up....

 

[HARTUPM]

I agree with some of your points. I would argue that at times the defense has showed that they can play at a high level, but consistency is definitely not there. Our kicking game is strong. Everything gets over shadowed by the dismal offense, especially disappointed with how poorly the O line has played so far. In hindsight I would say the Pruitt hire was a bad hire.

 

[igotworms]

Agree but people now a days are too young to remember the rebuilding jobs in the 70s and 80s where Tennessee lost to Army and Rutgers and Virginia etc. The new generations think anything less than a 4 year rebuild is worthy of immediate firing. And what’s worse is they incorrectly assume some “hot” coach who is doing well with weak schedule at a completely different situation would do better.
I remember when people on this board wanted the likes of Fleck, Franklin, Leach, Tubberville, Ferentz, Harbaugh, Kelly, Chizik, Miles, Richt, Fuente, Rodriguez, Cristobal, Hawkins, Brohm, Johnson, Frost, etc and they are all fired or struggling

There is no “dream” coach that would win big here or anywhere else. They are ALL a game of hit and miss.

Keep bitching about "new generation"
Sounds like youre a bit older and went thru those rebuilds.
So with that assumption:
You claim the coach should be given time to complete a rebuild.
Couple of questions..
1) why does a "program" need to be rebuilt every decade?
2) are you really claiming the current game and state of football is the same as 70s and 80s?

If so then no amount of truth or evidence is going to ever allow you to be relevant

 

[landscapingvol]

How many of those would have been embarrassed by Kentucky in year 3 and have no serviceable option at QB?

Several on that list are infinitely better than Pruitt, it’s laughable to compare him to them

 

[CINCYVOL]

Let’s rewind the clock a little.

• How quickly we forget. The last coaching search was a mess from the get go. It resulted in an AD getting fired and Fulmer having to come to the rescue in the first place.
• The hires from that year have been an epic fail. The “A” list were Chip Kelly and Scott Frost. I’ll cut Frost some slack because I think he had more work to do than anyone else, but it’s still a fail at this point. Dan Mullen was largely viewed as a shoulder shrug hire. Not bad, but not all that great either. Jimbo has had some success and A&M has gotten better every year. The only guy to win a championship at this point…..Mario Cristobal. Yep, Cristobal. But, there are a lot of Willie Taggarts in that group.
• I think people need to remember what a home run hire is at this point. Once in a blue moon, you have a guy build a dominant program at a doormat. But, that’s extremely rare. You’re normal “home run hire” is a guy like Matt Campbell who hasn’t won anything, but has done as well or better than anyone else who’s coached where he is. Campbell isn’t going to win the Big XII, so judging him that way is not fair. IMO, this is the kind of candidate you need to look for. A head coach, with experience, who has overperformed where he is even if the results don’t appear to be spectacular on the surface. He's 40 years old. He's been a head coach at 2 places. His first head coaching gig was at 32 years old.

Pruitt has failed, IMO. But, why would I pass judgment that way? Is it because he hasn’t won a championship? No. Is it because he’s 0-8 against Florida, Georgia, and Alabama? No.


He has failed because he has not separated Tennessee from the “other” pack out there in the league. By failing to do that, Tennessee did not go bowling in 2018. They robbed themselves of a better bowl in 2019. What bowl do they go to at 9-3 instead of 7-5? And they are going to fail to go to a bowl game this year. That isn’t because of Florida, Georgia, and Alabama. That’s because of Vanderbilt, Georgia State, BYU, Kentucky and Arkansas.


At this point, they were supposed to be clearly better than the also rans of the league and they aren’t. The other obvious thing is to start naming things Tennessee does really well or does at the level they need to. I can’t think of any.


But, the reality is the “home run hire” is a fantasy, not just at Tennessee, but everywhere.

JMO

I’d hire Art Briles in a New York minute.

 

[landscapingvol]

Keep bitching about "new generation"
Sounds like youre a bit older and went thru those rebuilds.
So with that assumption:
You claim the coach should be given time to complete a rebuild.
Couple of questions..
1) why does a "program" need to be rebuilt every decade?
2) are you really claiming the current game and state of football is the same as 70s and 80s?

If so then no amount of truth or evidence is going to ever allow you to be relevant

UT wasn’t remotely this dreadful in the 80’s. We aren’t even competitive with the top teams in the league

 

[99gator]

I’d hire Art Briles in a New York minute.

Well, and someone posted a picture of Freeze.

That is the other category. The proven winner with baggage.

Freeze’s baggage I could live with (just watch the NCAA), but Briles I couldnt

 

[GR82BVOL]

The big miss was Mullins. We didn't close the deal which allowed Florida to creep in and steal him away. It would have been less likely to happen had we already signed him. I think he was actually in Knoxville to sign his contract when Florida finally decided to make a change and contacted him. He was a proven coach in the SEC. That was the right call. Then we fell into the same routine we had in previous searches because like the other searches we had no plan B. Dooley, Jones and Pruitt all ended up being plan B options that were not even an option to start.

Ultimately, Pruitt has to be given time, "his" recruits are still growing and are basically Freshmen and Sophomores. You can't count that first recruiting class because he didn't get hired in time to have any chance to really recruit his guys. He had to settle on Jones' recruits that stayed committed and whatever recruits were still available after the early signing date which saw most recruits sign during the early signing date. Once all of Jones' players are out of the system, we will see if he really can coach or not.

So, these first couple of years are the years where Pruitt learns to be a head coach so that once his players are ready to take off, he is ready too. These first few years will have its ups and downs and we have definitely seen that. After 12+ years of mediocrity at best between 4 different coaches, our fans will have to wait and be patient in the wake of the up and down results we are seeing now. Having CJPs recruits starting to finally be developed (Juniors), we will start having more depth built up.

For now and always, GBO!!!!

 

[TNbuc2]

Regarding home run hires:

Coaching record after 32 games:

- Steve Spurrier - 26-6
- Urban Meyer - 26-6
- Dan Mullen - 26-6

Elite company.

All 3 had head coaching experience with proven track records as such. 3yrs ago TN had become a bad circus act. How many AD's did we go thru in the same period . What HC's were available at the time of Pruitt's hiring? We were not exactly shopping top shelf @ that point. Fla St is another example., Biggest mistake started with not locking Kiffen in once we made that choice. His short tenure included talent on the roster. He wasn't the best choice @ the time in my opinion, but he was the choice. We have been damaged goods ever since. Gruden was a pipe dream, I do believe the Vols will be back, not sure I will live to see it.

 

[CAVPUT]

Well, and someone posted a picture of Freeze.

That is the other category. The proven winner with baggage.

Freeze’s baggage I could live with (just watch the NCAA), but Briles I couldnt

While we could find the rick barnes of football, it's very unlikely. Just about anyone who's prepared to compete in this league will have baggage. Just depends on the type of sin I suppose. Personally, I'd take Kiffin over Briles. He's also great offensively, but Kiffin has experienced both this league AND the unique demands at UT. IMO, both he and Freeze are more SEC ready to hit the ground running. Freeze, Kiffin are 1, 2 in my book. Having said that I don't see Fulmer going along with either. That means he has to go as well. Fortunately, UT has not one but two exceptional candidates that would be upgrades to PF. Just need the will to fix this ship and set it on the right course.

 

[VolInNW]

The big miss was Mullins. We didn't close the deal which allowed Florida to creep in and steal him away. It would have been less likely to happen had we already signed him. I think he was actually in Knoxville to sign his contract when Florida finally decided to make a change and contacted him. He was a proven coach in the SEC. That was the right call. Then we fell into the same routine we had in previous searches because like the other searches we had no plan B. Dooley, Jones and Pruitt all ended up being plan B options that were not even an option to start.

Ultimately, Pruitt has to be given time, "his" recruits are still growing and are basically Freshmen and Sophomores. You can't count that first recruiting class because he didn't get hired in time to have any chance to really recruit his guys. He had to settle on Jones' recruits that stayed committed and whatever recruits were still available after the early signing date which saw most recruits sign during the early signing date. Once all of Jones' players are out of the system, we will see if he really can coach or not.

So, these first couple of years are the years where Pruitt learns to be a head coach so that once his players are ready to take off, he is ready too. These first few years will have its ups and downs and we have definitely seen that. After 12+ years of mediocrity at best between 4 different coaches, our fans will have to wait and be patient in the wake of the up and down results we are seeing now. Having CJPs recruits starting to finally be developed (Juniors), we will start having more depth built up.

For now and always, GBO!!!!

Dont worry. You'll get your wish. We will be directed to be patient and lectured that we have no faith in the program, aren't real fans, yadda yadda, for another 2-3 years of this slop before inevitably it becomes obvious even to the "be patient" sunshine pumpers that it's time for a change.

We will suck even more then.

Enjoy. Fans with the "patience" mantra were telling us the same story with Dooley and Jones.

 

[Jaws]

All 3 had head coaching experience with proven track records as such. 3yrs ago TN had become a bad circus act. How many AD's did we go thru in the same period . What HC's were available at the time of Pruitt's hiring? We were not exactly shopping top shelf @ that point. Fla St is another example., Biggest mistake started with not locking Kiffen in once we made that choice. His short tenure included talent on the roster. He wasn't the best choice @ the time in my opinion, but he was the choice. We have been damaged goods ever since. Gruden was a pipe dream, I do believe the Vols will be back, not sure I will live to see it.

I thought Pruitt was a very iffy hire. He’s proving me right. The good news is he can get better and if he doesn’t, UT can always find the right guy somewhere else.

 

[99gator]

While we could find the rick barnes of football, it's very unlikely. Just about anyone who's prepared to compete in this league will have baggage. Just depends on the type of sin I suppose. Personally, I'd take Kiffin over Briles. He's also great offensively, but Kiffin has experienced both this league AND the unique demands at UT. IMO, both he and Freeze are more SEC ready to hit the ground running. Freeze, Kiffin are 1, 2 in my book. Having said that I don't see Fulmer going along with either. That means he has to go as well. Fortunately, UT has not one but two exceptional candidates that would be upgrades to PF. Just need the will to fix this ship and set it on the right course.

I couldn't take Kiffin in your shoes either.

It's one thing to take back a woman who's cheated on you. It's another thing to get on your hands and knees and beg the woman who has cheated on you to come back.

No bueno.

 

[Rickyvol77]

I find it funny how home run hires are so rare for UT and not for anyone else.

It took Alabama 6 before theirs

 

[Rockytoptalker]

Agree but people now a days are too young to remember the rebuilding jobs in the 70s and 80s where Tennessee lost to Army and Rutgers and Virginia etc. The new generations think anything less than a 4 year rebuild is worthy of immediate firing. And what’s worse is they incorrectly assume some “hot” coach who is doing well with weak schedule at a completely different situation would do better.
I remember when people on this board wanted the likes of Fleck, Franklin, Leach, Tubberville, Ferentz, Harbaugh, Kelly, Chizik, Miles, Richt, Fuente, Rodriguez, Cristobal, Hawkins, Brohm, Johnson, Frost, etc and they are all fired or struggling

There is no “dream” coach that would win big here or anywhere else. They are ALL a game of hit and miss.

That’s all well and good, but we’re actually regressing at this point. Under a rebuild, you would expect to see some sort of improvement by the third year, no? I also highly disagree with a few of the examples you used. Cristobal won both the PAC-12 and the Rose Bowl last year, Harbaugh had 3 10-win seasons in 5 years, Brohm has made Purdue much more competitive than they were before he arrived, etc...

I don’t expect Pruitt to get fired this year, but he needs to make immediate improvements in 2021

 

[Rickyvol77]

Keep bitching about "new generation"
Sounds like youre a bit older and went thru those rebuilds.
So with that assumption:
You claim the coach should be given time to complete a rebuild.
Couple of questions..
1) why does a "program" need to be rebuilt every decade?
2) are you really claiming the current game and state of football is the same as 70s and 80s?

If so then no amount of truth or evidence is going to ever allow you to be relevant

1)Because all programs go thru ebbs and flows for various reasons (coaching, recruiting changes, conference changes, evolution of the game, etc). Every major football power has been through it

2)not at all. But all programs go thru losses to terrible teams and have average years. To act like us losing to Ga State was worse than Bama losing to La Monroe or Florida losing to Ga Southern is silly. We need to improve. No one is saying we don’t. But firing a coach every 2-3 years for another unproven coach is just roulette at this point

 

[Rickyvol77]

That’s all well and good, but we’re actually regressing at this point. Under a rebuild, you would expect to see some sort of improvement by the third year, no? I also highly disagree with a few of the examples you used. Cristobal won both the PAC-12 and the Rose Bowl last year, Harbaugh had 3 10-win seasons in 5 years, Brohm has made Purdue much more competitive than they were before he arrived, etc...

I don’t expect Pruitt to get fired this year, but he needs to make immediate improvements in 2021

I agree. Let’s see what the rest of this season and 2021 bear out. Because he’s not getting fired this year

 

[rjd970]

It took Alabama 6 before theirs

By home run I mean a level of basic competence.

What Lane is doing at OM gives reason for hope and optimism. Same with Mullen at UF. Somehow LSU falls into a national championship with Orgeron. UGA hits it right out of the gate with Smart post Richt. Auburn has even won with Gus and knocked of Bama a few times.

Yet here we are with a not ready Lane followed by Dooley, Jones, and now Pruitt.

You can’t make this ‘ish up. It’s absurd.

I’m at the point where I’m just going to accept the fact we are what we are. Not really interested in watching Bama roll of 20 in a row against us and UF annually kicking our teeth in. I don’t see us beating UGA either in the likely near future. This isn’t fun and I can’t remember the last time it was.