Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#81,579
#81,579
A few interesting tidbits on the Pfizer vaccine from our hospital briefing today:

- no trials yet in <16 year olds. IMO: this likely means there will be no child vaccination for at least another year.

- the temperature requirements provide a huge challenge for distribution and storage. The current vaccine requires -94 F refrigeration. (!!!)

- at least two doses are required

- this is a very new technology (mRNA instructing our own cells to make a protein that can be recognized by our immune cells, which would then learn to produce antibodies)

- efficacy was good, no major side effects in the 40,000+ participants
 
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#81,580
#81,580
kiddiedoc said:
A few interesting tidbits on the Pfizer vaccine from our hospital briefing today:

- no trials yet in <16 year olds. IMO: this likely means there will be no child vaccination for at least another year.

- the temperature requirements provide a huge challenge for distribution and storage. The current vaccine requires -94 F refrigeration. (!!!)

- at least two doses are required

- this is a very new technology (mRNA instructing our own cells to make a protein that can be recognized by our immune cells, which would then learn to produce antibodies)

- efficacy was good, no major side effects in the 40,000+ participants
Click to expand...

In regards to the temperature, I’m guessing that low of a temp is uncommon? What is the usual temp for vaccines to be stored at?
 
#81,582
#81,582
GoBigOrangeUT said:
In regards to the temperature, I’m guessing that low of a temp is uncommon? What is the usual temp for vaccines to be stored at?
Click to expand...
Yes, very difficult and probably only specialty research labs would have the capability right now.

Most vaccines are refrigerated around 40 F, some are frozen and stay around 0 F. We use regular refrigerators and freezers like you might find in any appliance store, with continuous monitoring and reporting of temperature variances.
 
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#81,583
#81,583
GoBigOrangeUT said:
In regards to the temperature, I’m guessing that low of a temp is uncommon? What is the usual temp for vaccines to be stored at?
Click to expand...
Liquid nitrogen or dry ice either one, will keep it cold enough.

I actually use liquid nitrogen in my own lab.

The local welding supplier brings me a tank whenever I need it and I forklift it onto a weigh scale right next to my desk. Each tank holds about 400 pounds.
 
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#81,584
#81,584
kiddiedoc said:
Yes, very difficult and probably only specialty research labs would have the capability right now.

Most vaccines are refrigerated around 40 F, some are frozen and stay around 0 F. We use regular refrigerators and freezers like you might find in any appliance store, with continuous monitoring and reporting of temperature variances.
Click to expand...
Dry ice is -109F at 14.7 psia... I thought that the distribution system needed dry ice storage facilities. The good people at Publix gave us dry ice for our fridge/freezers when we lost power for a few days after the Good Friday tornado.
 
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#81,585
#81,585
StarRaider said:
Dry ice is -109F at 14.7 psia... I thought that the distribution system needed dry ice storage facilities. The good people at Publix gave us dry ice for our fridge/freezers when we lost power for a few days after the Good Friday tornado.
Click to expand...
Dr. Marc Siegel was on Tucker tonight, talking about how the 4* general in charge of distribution will have it everywhere it needs to be within 24 hours of the FDA giving the green light. Keeping it cold has already been figured out.
 
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#81,586
#81,586
RavinDave said:
Dr. Marc Siegel was on Tucker tonight, talking about how the 4* general in charge of distribution will have it everywhere it needs to be within 24 hours of the FDA giving the green light. Keeping it cold has already been figured out.
Click to expand...

Dont know made me think of Full Metal Jacket.

I dont know but I been told
Eskimo ...... is might cold..
 
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#81,587
#81,587
kiddiedoc said:
Yes, very difficult and probably only specialty research labs would have the capability right now.

Most vaccines are refrigerated around 40 F, some are frozen and stay around 0 F. We use regular refrigerators and freezers like you might find in any appliance store, with continuous monitoring and reporting of temperature variances.
Click to expand...

Given other vaccines on the way I would imagine this one will be distributed via Academic Medical Centers with emphasis on ones that have a healthy biotech community in the vicinity to help with the storage logistics. I know Warp Speed has enrolled the help of the military but I doubt they have the equipment to substitute for the refrigeration level required for wide geographic distribution. This one is probably more proof of concept than "the one"
 
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#81,589
#81,589
RavinDave said:
Dr. Marc Siegel was on Tucker tonight, talking about how the 4* general in charge of distribution will have it everywhere it needs to be within 24 hours of the FDA giving the green light. Keeping it cold has already been figured out.
Click to expand...

My brother-in-law is apart of Operation Warpspeed. They actually showed him on last Sunday’s 60 Minutes episode.
 
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#81,591
#81,591
I think this one will be given to folks for about 6 mos and then other vaccines will take over. I can foresee folks, particularly vulnerable folks like eldering, health care providers etc, getting this vaccine now and then getting say the Johnson & Johnson vaccine a yr from now
 
#81,593
#81,593
Yes, dry ice is what I figured, maybe in mobile units. How long does dry ice last? I know liquid nitrogen has a shorter shelf life, requiring refilling on a regular basis (we looked into cryoRx systems for the office to freeze skin lesions).
 
#81,594
#81,594
GoBigOrangeUT said:
My brother-in-law is apart of Operation Warpspeed. They actually showed him on last Sunday’s 60 Minutes episode.
Click to expand...
That was the first I had heard about that. Why wasn't he pushing that as the election neared instead of joking about not wearing masks and promising to fire Fauci after the election? Jr out there making light of 200k deaths at the same time. Scared people out of voting for him.
 
#81,595
#81,595
I also wonder if they will develop a "dispenser-type" system, as opening and closing storage would be very difficult while maintaining that temperature.
 
#81,599
#81,599
kiddiedoc said:
Yes, dry ice is what I figured, maybe in mobile units. How long does dry ice last? I know liquid nitrogen has a shorter shelf life, requiring refilling on a regular basis (we looked into cryoRx systems for the office to freeze skin lesions).
Click to expand...
My GP does that, he puts LN in a small device that looks like an oil can, and spritzes it right on the skin.

How long dry ice or LN will keep depends on how well it’s insulated. A vacuum dewar will keep liquid N2 a pretty long time - the bigger the container the less often you have to top it up.

The system I have in my lab is called a MicroBulk Tank and has a liquid take-off valve, a vapor take-off valve (with an internal vaporizer coil just inside the outer SS shell), and a “pressure building valve” which lets the liquid circulate through a tubing loop if you need to boost up the vapor take-off rate. I only use it in vapor phase and rarely need to crack the pressure building valve. If I’m not using it much, I keep a slight purge through my reactor, venting outside my building, to prevent the pressure in the tank from building up to 300 psig where the relief valve opens. Have to vent about 10 lbs a day. One tank usually lasts about 5-6 weeks like that.
 
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