Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#80,203
#80,203
Sea Ray said:
I get that. I disagree. Our choices sucked four yrs ago too but I can't imagine where we'd be now if Hillary had handled C19 and appointed 3 SC justices. If you really do despise both candidates then yeah, stay home. If you despise both candidates every 4 yrs then the problem's on you.

I agree that we need better public servants right now but I can see why more don't run. Who'd want to subject yourself/family to today's media and partisan climate? Look at how folks like Trump and Kavanaugh were treated over unfounded allegations? I'm amazed Trump wants 4 more yrs of that. I wouldn't have blamed him one bit if he'd decided not to run again. If he loses he'll go back to his billionaire lifestyle and shed no tears
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Yeah, if the choices suck every every four years, then the system and the people who perpetuate the system are the problem. And the choices are getting worse every time. Look at what the two major parties have offered up...a carnival Barker on one side and a demented career politician on the other.
 
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#80,205
#80,205
Pepe_Silvia said:
Yeah, if the choices suck every every four years, then the system and the people who perpetuate the system are the problem. And the choices are getting worse every time. Look at what the two major parties have offered up...a carnival Barker on one side and a demented career politician on the other.
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I'd say the corrupt media is #1 on the list to blame
 
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#80,214
#80,214
#80,216
#80,216
C-south said:
Thanks. It’s odd that he tested positive yet his new fiancé tested negative. Her parents are getting tested as well so we’ll see. Kids were told to stay home from school for 2 weeks and we’re all getting tested in a couple days to see where we stand. So far no real symptoms to get tested sooner than the 7 days after exposure to the person that tested positive that they recommend.
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It's messed up. If you have it you will know. Unceasing tiredness.
 
#80,217
#80,217
DancingOutlaw said:
Sewage testing shows a country flush with coronavirus cases

This article reminded me of one they posted a few months back about Chattanooga using this company.

UPDATE: Additional wastewater testing shows many more possible COVID-19 cases in Chattanooga

It said in May 14k people were infected when there were 642 reported cases. To date Hamilton county has recorded a little over 12k positives. So this service is either a grift or most of the county has already had it by now.
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I'll say grift only because they mentioned picking up fragments of the corona, that could be the common cold.
 
#80,218
#80,218
NurseGoodVol said:
It's messed up. If you have it you will know. Unceasing tiredness.
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Tomorrow will be 7 days since initial exposure to the people that tested positive and I was exposed multiple times to them. Pretty much 4 straight days with one that stayed in the same chalet. I’ll probably go get tested Friday unless I develop any symptoms before then.
 
#80,219
#80,219
MontyPython said:
Yep. Again, if you disagree, offer your opinion. The worse thing that could happen is Airvol becomes your new husband.
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First, it’s an argument against reopening being the only route to herd immunity. That is not what the WH or GB Declaration offer. Herd immunity is the goal regardless of whether it is done “naturally” or through immunization. But it isn’t strictly either/or.

Second, there are once again the often used qualifiers such as likely and almost and possibly. His concluding sentence in the introduction against herd immunity is “I believe this infection-based approach would almost certainly fail.”

Next, they state the R0 value as between 2-3.2 based on a study from England that was published over two months ago. You can get real time R values in the US from website rtlive.com and currently highest value is 1.3. Since herd immunity level is calculated from the R value, their calculation of percent population needed is highly inaccurate.

Their first stated argument AGAINST protecting the more vulnerable is that “the plan wrongly assumes that all healthy people can survive a coronavirus infection. Though at-risk groups do worse, young healthy people are also dying and facing long-term issues from the illness.” CDC stats from today show that 99.5% of US infections under 65 years old survive. So they’re right....I guess. Not “all” survive.

He then states that vaccines are the more reliable approach like with measles (first cases know in 9th century, vaccine in 1963), small pox (first cases known in 3rd century, vaccine in 1800’s), and polio (first cases in 1500BC, vaccine in 1950). This clearly shows that a vaccine only approach to herd immunity is not the perfect choice either.

And lastly, his concluding sentence shows his basic lack of understanding of the topic he is writing about. He states, “And then, once a vaccine is widely available, the country can move to herd immunity.” In reality, we are
Actually working toward herd immunity even as he wrote that, whether anyone likes it or not. It is the natural endpoint in the progression of a virus.

These were a few of the points that make me believe it was a terrible opinion article.
 
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#80,220
#80,220
The genius of Donald and his smug, twit son-in-law:

Rule #1: During a pandemic, eliminate doctors!

Stable. Genius.

Jared Kushner bragged in April that Trump was taking the country 'back from the doctors'
By Michael Warren, Jamie Gangel and Elizabeth Stuart, CNN

Updated 12:30 PM ET, Wed October 28, 2020

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner boasted in mid-April about how the President had cut out the doctors and scientists advising him on the unfolding coronavirus pandemic, comments that came as more than 40,000 Americans already had died from the virus, which was ravaging New York City.
In a taped interview on April 18, Kushner told legendary journalist Bob Woodward that Trump was "getting the country back from the doctors" in what he called a "negotiated settlement." Kushner also proclaimed that the US was moving swiftly through the "panic phase" and "pain phase" of the pandemic and that the country was at the "beginning of the comeback phase."
"That doesn't mean there's not still a lot of pain and there won't be pain for a while, but that basically was, we've now put out rules to get back to work," Kushner said. "Trump's now back in charge. It's not the doctors."
 
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#80,221
#80,221
newyorkvol said:
First, it’s an argument against reopening being the only route to herd immunity. That is not what the WH or GB Declaration offer. Herd immunity is the goal regardless of whether it is done “naturally” or through immunization. But it isn’t strictly either/or.

Second, there are once again the often used qualifiers such as likely and almost and possibly. His concluding sentence in the introduction against herd immunity is “I believe this infection-based approach would almost certainly fail.”

Next, they state the R0 value as between 2-3.2 based on a study from England that was published over two months ago. You can get real time R values in the US from website rtlive.com and currently highest value is 1.3. Since herd immunity level is calculated from the R value, their calculation of percent population needed is highly inaccurate.

Their first stated argument AGAINST protecting the more vulnerable is that “the plan wrongly assumes that all healthy people can survive a coronavirus infection. Though at-risk groups do worse, young healthy people are also dying and facing long-term issues from the illness.” CDC stats from today show that 99.5% of US infections under 65 years old survive. So they’re right....I guess. Not “all” survive.

He then states that vaccines are the more reliable approach like with measles (first cases know in 9th century, vaccine in 1963), small pox (first cases known in 3rd century, vaccine in 1800’s), and polio (first cases in 1500BC, vaccine in 1950). This clearly shows that a vaccine only approach to herd immunity is not the perfect choice either.

And lastly, his concluding sentence shows his basic lack of understanding of the topic he is writing about. He states, “And then, once a vaccine is widely available, the country can move to herd immunity.” In reality, we are
Actually working toward herd immunity even as he wrote that, whether anyone likes it or not. It is the natural endpoint in the progression of a virus.

These were a few of the points that make me believe it was a terrible opinion article.
Click to expand...

(1) There is no immunization, so your suggestion that herd immunity could be done through it and letting the virus run rampant is moot.

(2) Doctors and scientists use words like "likely" and "possibly" because they're smart. Unlike Dumb Donald, they recognize that the world's not simple, black and white and that the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

(3) The rest of your post is pure hypothetical posturing. You're no virologist, nor are you a doctor. I'll trust doctors and scientists all day long over politicians and laymen.
 
#80,222
#80,222
MontyPython said:
(1) There is no immunization, so your suggestion that herd immunity could be done through it and letting the virus run rampant is moot.

(2) Doctors and scientists use words like "likely" and "possibly" because they're smart. Unlike Dumb Donald, they recognize that the world's not simple, black and white and that the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

(3) The rest of your post is pure hypothetical posturing. You're no virologist, nor are you a doctor. I'll trust doctors and scientists all day long over politicians and laymen.
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Are you overweight?
 
#80,224
#80,224
MontyPython said:
The genius of Donald and his smug, twit son-in-law:

Rule #1: During a pandemic, eliminate doctors!

Stable. Genius.

Jared Kushner bragged in April that Trump was taking the country 'back from the doctors'
By Michael Warren, Jamie Gangel and Elizabeth Stuart, CNN

Updated 12:30 PM ET, Wed October 28, 2020

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner boasted in mid-April about how the President had cut out the doctors and scientists advising him on the unfolding coronavirus pandemic, comments that came as more than 40,000 Americans already had died from the virus, which was ravaging New York City.
In a taped interview on April 18, Kushner told legendary journalist Bob Woodward that Trump was "getting the country back from the doctors" in what he called a "negotiated settlement." Kushner also proclaimed that the US was moving swiftly through the "panic phase" and "pain phase" of the pandemic and that the country was at the "beginning of the comeback phase."
"That doesn't mean there's not still a lot of pain and there won't be pain for a while, but that basically was, we've now put out rules to get back to work," Kushner said. "Trump's now back in charge. It's not the doctors."
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Doctors should not have the final say when the overall effects are far beyond their purview
 
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#80,225
#80,225
MontyPython said:
(so this is the part where you offer your opinion as to why said article is "terrible")
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I'll bite. A few important points:

Vaccination, in comparison, offers a much safer and likely more effective approach
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There is no vaccine available, and thus no safety data on vaccination. When (and if) one is approved, there will still be no long-term safety data until years after initial deployment.

To get to 60% immunity in the U.S., about 198 million individuals would need to be infected, survive and develop resistance to the coronavirus. The demand on hospital care from infections would be overwhelming. And according to the WHO estimated infection fatality rate of 0.5%, that would mean nearly a million deaths if the country were to open up fully
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The author is ignoring two very important issues: 1) the "known" infection rate is much lower than the actual rate, due to most people having such minor symptoms. This is obvious in every antibody study to date. Therefore, herd immunity could actually be reached when as little as 6-10% of the population has tested positive. 2) there is almost certainly some degree of background immunity in the population. This has been explained ad nauseum.

First, the plan wrongly assumes that all healthy people can survive a coronavirus infection. Though at-risk groups do worse, young healthy people are also dying and facing long-term issues from the illness.
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1) the plan does not say that, at all. 2) the risk of serious illness or death in the young, healthy population is very small and would be considered tolerable in almost any infectious disease issue.

There is one final reason to doubt the efficacy of infection-based herd immunity: Contracting and recovering from the coronavirus might not even give immunity for very long. One CDC report suggests that “people appear to become susceptible to reinfection around 90 days after onset of infection.”
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1) natural immunity should be at least as good as, if not better than, vaccination. If it doesn't hold, it won't with a vaccine either, and people would need revaccination q 3 months or so. 2) A decline in antibody titers does not mean that a person is susceptible to reinfection. Thankfully, the immune system is much more complicated than that.

That's all the time I have over lunch... Certainly plenty more to pick apart.
 
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