Systemic Racism

[GoBigOrangeUT]

I think that the police killing any unarmed people per year is a problem. Would it suddenly be ok if they increased the number of killings of whites and Hispanics to make things fair?

Here’s the rub in my opinion: police brutality against any race is abhorrent. However, brutality even slightly slanted towards black people is magnified 100x due to this countries history and its relationship with Black people. Fair or not, it logically paints the picture that we still are not over the issue. And why would we be? Blacks didn’t get the right to vote as a citizen until 60 years ago. There are many, many people still alive from that time.

 

[jaybird_1981]

BREAKING: NYC Mayor de Blasio plans to defund the police

If we are looking for things to defund might I suggest the department of education first.

 

[PointGuard]

I think that the police killing any unarmed people per year is a problem. Would it suddenly be ok if they increased the number of killings of whites and Hispanics to make things fair?

Where do some of you come up with these retorts ?
but I do want to thank you for your dumba$$ reply in that you made my earlier point to Roustabout

 

[Devo182]

Simple example - research has shown "black names" on a resume (similar resumes) is a deterrent to receiving a callback or advancing through the hiring process.

That is just one and that is a huge hurdle for some.

 

[Devo182]

Driving while black is another obvious example. I grew up in Knoxville and at least half of my black friends had a personal examples of this. My one friend drove a Lexus back in HS and he had MULTIPLE occurrences of being pulled for NO reason.

 

[allvol123]

Driving while black is another obvious example. I grew up in Knoxville and at least half of my black friends had a personal examples of this. My one friend drove a Lexus back in HS and he had MULTIPLE occurrences of being pulled for NO reason.

Me too. I always get pulled over for no reason.

 

[1972 Grad]

Ask the notorious Daniel Shaver who was murdered in cold blood about being a law abiding citizen.

Let’s ask Breonna Taylor the ruthless EMT who was murdered while sleeping in her own bed.

Let’s put the murders aside. It’s also about the harassing and violating the rights of citizens.

Take about 30 minutes and research YouTube and you will find plenty of videos of cops harassing and violating the rights of law abiding citizens.

It shouldn’t matter your race, gender, or political spectrum everyone should demand better from those who took an oath to protect and serve and uphold the constitution.

There are about 700,000 sworn officers. Do you think it is remotely possible to put that many people in bad situations with bad people, and no policeman loses his cool? Sh!t is going to happen, and you can't stop it, any more than you can stop mass shootings. Find me a profession with 700,000 people who react perfectly in pressure situations every time.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Here’s the rub in my opinion: police brutality against any race is abhorrent. However, brutality even slightly slanted towards black people is magnified 100x due to this countries history and its relationship with Black people. Fair or not, it logically paints the picture that we still are not over the issue. And why would we be? Blacks didn’t get the right to vote as a citizen until 60 years ago. There are many, many people still alive from that time.

Nothing to disagree with there.
The situation does seem kinda hopeless though doesn’t it.
At some point for things to get better the offended party is going to have to get over it. How are they supposed to get over it when **** keeps happening to them. My issue is this is currently being presented as a race issue which pollutes the discussion. While one race is clearly affected worse than others the issue is police brutality. Increasing brutality against other groups to make things fair doesn’t help. Lowering brutality against Blacks so they are only victims at the same rate as other races....would be preferable to what exist now.....doesn’t solve the problem. Eliminating brutality against everyone solves the problem.
Considering there are places in the world where everyone looks the same and they paint dots on their heads so they can discriminate against each other, I don’t hold out much hope for improvement.

But I think the leaders of both parties want this so they can play to their base so maybe I’m way off base here

 

[PointGuard]

There are about 700,000 sworn officers. Do you think it is remotely possible to put that many people in bad situations with bad people, and no policeman loses his cool? Sh!t is going to happen, and you can't stop it, any more than you can stop mass shootings. Find me a profession with 700,000 people who react perfectly in pressure situations every time.

Except as the earlier reference points up - facts - - that those of the 700,000 who do act inappropriately act disproportionately unacceptably toward blacks

PS. You can’t stop prejudice. People learn from their elders - ways of life points of view being passed down to next generations

But in the matter of police you can do a better job of psychogical testing and screen out pre hiring those that will later be a problem. Also why is a cop with 18 major complaints still on the force?

Systemic example Roustabout

 

[Orangeslice13]

There are about 700,000 sworn officers. Do you think it is remotely possible to put that many people in bad situations with bad people, and no policeman loses his cool? Sh!t is going to happen, and you can't stop it, any more than you can stop mass shootings. Find me a profession with 700,000 people who react perfectly in pressure situations every time.

Oversight is the problem.
The police should not be the ones policing their behavior

 

[1972 Grad]

Except as the earlier reference points up - facts - - that those of the 700,000 who do act inappropriately act disproportionately unacceptably toward blacks

I wouldn't have any way of knowing without having seen each interaction. Maybe you were on the scene for all of them. I only personally have known 2 people shot and killed by police. Both were white, and one probably deserved it. I went through school with him.

The other was an absolute tragic mistake , when the officer thought the man had a gun in his hand. It was after dark and the lights were flashing on the police car. The man exited the passenger side of the car by using a pair of vice grips to flip the door handle. The policeman saw a shiny object in his hand and shot and killed him from several feet away. Lucky for him, he killed an unarmed white man , so it never made the news beyond the local paper.

 

[JoAllan]

You start by correctly stating opinions should be based on facts. Then you proceed to report incorrect facts

Police kill more unarmed black men per year than white men. Period

The American Journal of Public Health (AJPH) from the American Public Health Association (APHA) publications
This article is also one component of confirmation of systemic racism

The study you mention as a base uses “all people.” The study is per 100,000 people; however this can not give a correct representation of “rate” of people killed by police....because not everyone has interactions with the police.

My first statistical statement was total...which is correct.

My second was from actual “rate.”

Most people will never have an interaction with police. Most people have never been arrested (either justly or unjustly)...one cannot use “everyone” when trying to find a “true” rate.

To have a true understanding of the “rate” you have to go by those with police interactions, people arrested, people pulled over....ect.

12% of a population will be one thing.
However 40% of interactions makes that % much different.

The statistics you provided is based on about 12% of “total” population. However if that were based on 40-50% of “interactions” the “rate” would be much different.

 

[PointGuard]

I wouldn't have any way of knowing without having seen each interaction. Maybe you were on the scene for all of them. I only personally have known 2 people shot and killed by police. Both were white, and one probably deserved it. I went through school with him.

The other was an absolute tragic mistake , when the officer thought the man had a gun in his hand. It was after dark and the lights were flashing on the police car. The man exited the passenger side of the car by using a pair of vice grips to flip the door handle. The policeman saw a shiny object in his hand and shot and killed him from several feet away. Lucky for him, he killed an unarmed white man , so it never made the news beyond the local paper.

perhaps I didn’t make post clear. I had previously posted a link pointing up that police do more harm to unarmed black men than they do to unarmed white men. This link was to counter a post by another who falsely claimed that cops cause more harm to unarmed whites than unarmed blacks

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Go read the post you quoted. It's clearly in there

Wrong

 

[PointGuard]

The study you mention as a base uses “all people.” The study is per 100,000 people; however this can not give a correct representation of “rate” of people killed by police....because not everyone has interactions with the police.

My first statistical statement was total...which is correct.

My second was from actual “rate.”

Most people will never have an interaction with police. Most people have never been arrested (either justly or unjustly)...one cannot use “everyone” when trying to find a “true” rate.

To have a true understanding of the “rate” you have to go by those with police interactions, people arrested, people pulled over....ect.

12% of a population will be one thing.
However 40% of interactions makes that % much different.

The statistics you provided is based on about 12% of “total” population. However if that were based on 40-50% of “interactions” the “rate” would be much different.

Good point. But still disproves you’re fact. In terms of incidents the harm to blacks goes to 3:1

Try a different Google search term

I would also add we would Likely know nothing of this man’s death had it not been videotaped. These statistics are based on known instances. It is only the videotaped instances in recent years that are actually seeing the light of day.

Yet another example of systemic racism Roustabout

 

[Roustabout]

Nope. The left wants to make it a racial issue and the right wants to talk about Floyd's past legal problems.

Meanwhile, the real issue, tyrannical police, is not talked about.

I’m right and I don’t give a **** about Floyd’s last problems. What happened to him is absolute inexcusable BS. Why Chaivin did it? I have no ****ing idea. Was he a racist? Probably. Maybe. But do i know?
I know twice as many White people die at the hands of police every year. I think we need prison reform. I think we need to stop over policing. I also think we need to call out the ******** rioters and people claiming systemic racism. I guess I’m a man with no country. **** Everyone!

 

[Roustabout]

Good point. But still disproves you’re fact. In terms of incidents the harm to blacks goes to 3:1

Try a different Google search term

I would also add we would Likely know nothing of this man’s death had it not been videotaped. These statistics are based on known instances. It is only the videotaped instances in recent years that are actually seeing the light of day.

Yet another example of systemic racism Roustabout

And black males (6% of population) commit how much of the crime? I’ll await your response.

 

[1972 Grad]

perhaps I didn’t make post clear. I had previously posted a link pointing up that police do more harm to unarmed black men than they do to unarmed white men. This link was to counter a post by another who falsely claimed that cops cause more harm to unarmed whites than unarmed blacks

Again, without being on scene, and knowing how much each person resisted, I couldn't say that. Maybe it's true. Maybe it's dependent upon other factors, such as the crime involved, the degree of resistance, etc.

 

[JoAllan]

Good point. But still disproves you’re fact. In terms of incidents the harm to blacks goes to 3:1

Try a different Google search term

I would also add we would Likely know nothing of this man’s death had it not been videotaped. These statistics are based on known instances. It is only the videotaped instances in recent years that are actually seeing the light of day.

Yet another example of systemic racism Roustabout

Your looking at one’s % numbers and not both.

I’m not black so I don’t know really where the conversation need to be.

However I “think” it should start from the “interaction” rate.

We know education and poverty have a lot to do with police interaction; however that certainly can’t lead to 60-80% of arrests (depending on city).

I feel this is a solid foundation which cannot be disputed. Sure some if not most of the interactions could be disputed (as justified) but there is virtually no way a 12% could be responsible for say 60%.

If the focus was in “police interaction” I think more people could “get the point.” I also think their could be a better outcome for whatever movement.

 

[Orange_Crush]

You start by correctly stating opinions should be based on facts. Then you proceed to report incorrect facts

Police kill more unarmed black men per year than white men. Period

The American Journal of Public Health (AJPH) from the American Public Health Association (APHA) publications

This article is also one component of confirmation of systemic racism

Are you serious with that?

Let me show you the full text of the study:

You must log in or purchase access to view the full text. Log in and purchase options are available below.

We'll need you to show the specific data from the study that ties this to systemic racism. I think you'll have a hard time doing that since racism speaks to motive, and I'm willing to bet that there isn't a shred of info on any police officer's motive in that full text.

But I'm willing to wait and see if you produce it.

What details are in the statistics that aren't in the abstract? Locations? Neighborhoods?

Personally, I think there IS institutional racism that would probably bear out from the full text if the stats were levied deep enough. I suspect that the killing of unarmed men by police officers is probably tied to high crime areas, and thus would be tied to poverty.

I see institutional racism from the left, in that they have engineered a new plantation. Welfare that is designed to reward birth out of wedlock, broken homes, fatherless households, which statistically result in poverty, crime, emotional and behavioral problems. All to keep blacks living beneath the poverty level, on the government teet, and voting democrat because they need handouts, and have been convinced they need handouts.

There's your institutional racism by and large.

 

[PointGuard]

Roustabout. More systemic racism examples. Gerrymandering, redlining, inferior inner city education

Societies’ reference to “bad sections of ______. Fill in the blank with any major city. The “unspoken” specific reference is obvious. The “black” section of town

 

[JoAllan]

Oversight is the problem.
The police should not be the ones policing their behavior

If every serious allegation was thoroughly investigated (even by internal affairs or simply the supervisor) the kind of stuff we have been seeing would be drastically reduced.

Many complaints are never investigated. However if the direct supervisor and/or the department supervisor were fired for “non-investigations........things would change quickly.

Simply hold the supervisors job in liability for every non-investigation when an officer has any serious complaint......officers would be held accountable and bad officers would quickly be fired.

Most simply skate by because the supervisor ignores the complaint or just asks “did you do this”...and the officer denies.....end of situation.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Who do more young black boys look up to more, Dr Ben Carson, or Lebron James?

I would say all your excuses are lame lies. Carson made it.

Carson- 2 million twitter followers

Lebron- 41 million

 

[Orangeslice13]

In an unrelated story...I’ll be teaching my neighbor who was formally a “gun control “ guy to shoot his new Remington 870 12ga tomorrow after work. It’s cool because he’s debated me for years on this but Covid19 and the riots brought him to a better understanding of the 2A.

@PointGuard He’s black so I’m doing my part to help end his oppression.

 

[Orangeslice13]

If every serious allegation was thoroughly investigated (even by internal affairs or simply the supervisor) the kind of stuff we have been seeing would be drastically reduced.

Many complaints are never investigated. However if the direct supervisor and/or the department supervisor were fired for “non-investigations........things would change quickly.

Simply hold the supervisors job in liability for every non-investigation when an officer has any serious complaint......officers would be held accountable and bad officers would quickly be fired.

Most simply skate by because the supervisor ignores the complaint or just asks “did you do this”...and the officer denies.....end of situation.

We take it out of their hands and the complaints can’t be ignored