Systemic Racism

[Vol Main]

Think back early Seventies. A high school friend recommended me for a job at a grocery store. Got the job and did well. Later, he and I recommended another friend to our manager. The other friend was as good a person as either of us or better. My senior class elected him President of our Student Council, not because he was some kind of suck-up. He was not that at all. Just a good person. When I asked him later if he got the job, his black face looked at me with feeling that I had never seen. There was incredible pain and disbelief that I did not understand how things were for him in our town. I should have known that stores did not hire Black people.

 

[jp1]

Yes.

We saw black cops abusing black students for breaking curfew in ATL a few days ago.

It isn't about black or white. We have a law enforcement problem. Period.

I'm confused....so we dont have a racism problem after all this?

 

[FLVOL_79]

Ok..16 seconds in is where your systemic racism argument implodes. Jamals schools are funded by what? Property taxes. Why dont black neighborhoods have nice restaurants and shopping? Because property taxes go up. People would like to build there because the taxes are so low but... Who doesn't want property taxes to go up? People living in the black neighborhood. What helps keep property taxes low? Crime for starters and a relatively low, often zero, level of pride in ownership and community. Who commits crime? People in the black neighborhood. So far the evil White man hasn't had a hand in keeping the neighborhood down or making sure Jamals schools are poorly funded even though the schools. Still, cities often tap other funds to offset the lack of property taxes to fund those schools. Yet oddly enough, they never improve. Such a mystery.....

 

[FLVOL_79]

So 20 pages, what are solutions for systemic racism? Well personally I don't believe there are any but some people do and here are just a few ways they think they can solve systemic racism:

1. Voting rights. Seems odd but they want all criminals to vote and bemoan how its so hard that the worst criminals (felons) can't vote in many places. Also lack of producing any identification or proof of voter eligibility when voting. This really has nothing to do with ending racism but more with solidifying democrat power.

2. Economic inequality: Increase welfare. Whites get more welfare than minorities (not per capita). Whites also take that welfare and are able to rise above poverty while apparently minorities can't for some unknown reason. Eliminate "racial wage gap" (lol). So in a nutshell punish Whites financially and redistribute their wealth to minorities.

3. Education. Force integration (again) both ways. Take the poor kids to the rich schools and vice versa. Again, take money from the not poor and redistribute to the poor minority areas. Apparently minorities do better at schools with lots of Whites instead of schools with lots of non Whites. Integration has been somewhat successful but its basically a one way street. That being said there is a movement in the left which I call new segregation. Its in California and Washington. Have classes in diverse schools that only cater to certain minorities. Apparently it segregation works if you do it in a "diverse" school. How this solve systemic racism by promoting racism is beyond me.

4. Criminal justice. This is a never ending debate but the main jist of almost every argument is that the criminal justice system based on English common law is unfair to minorities and the poor. How to make it fair? Minorities and poor are to be allowed off the hook more for crimes. Making some crimes not crimes doesn't improve the racial ratios of crimes committed. Again leftists bring up "fairness". That is a social construct meant for elementary aged kids on playgrounds.

I'm sure there are more "fixes" that go in depth but the above have been tried before for decades and it seems the thinking is more trying with more money is the solution. What did Einstein say? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. Also, seems the black community, according to the people who created these fixes, are helpless to do anything for themselves. Odd.

If people want to see different results it might be time to try different methods and there are only really 3 possible ways I see that going.

 

[LouderVol]

Just stop. Been over this. The whole idea is based on an apples to orange comparison.

You cant start on the grounds that one is rich and the other is poor and expect there to be equal outcomes.

Where is the episode comparing meth head Bob in the white trailer park to Jamal? Because that would be a fair comparison.

Instead you load the scales to such an extent it's amazing you try to pull some moral high ground from your shock that two completely different situations ended up differently. For some reason you watched all those explanation of differences and at the end went "no, none of those differences matters the system is racist".

 

[FLVOL_79]

Just stop. Been over this. The whole idea is based on an apples to orange comparison.

You cant start on the grounds that one is rich and the other is poor and expect there to be equal outcomes.

Where is the episode comparing meth head Bob in the white trailer park to Jamal? Because that would be a fair comparison.

Instead you load the scales to such an extent it's amazing you try to pull some moral high ground from your shock that two completely different situations ended up differently. For some reason you watched all those explanation of differences and at the end went "no, none of those differences matters the system is racist".

Equal opportunity does not equate to equal outcome. Something lost on a lot of people. And before people say "there isn't equal opportunity" the government is holding the downtrodden's hands from birth to adulthood and offering every advantage possible.

 

[utvolpj]

1. Voting rights. Seems odd but they want all criminals to vote and bemoan how its so hard that the worst criminals (felons) can't vote in many places.

Nonviolent felons. Those are not the worst criminals

 

[utvolpj]

No one is in prison just for smoking weed. That’s a myth

possession with intent to smoke or provide someone else the ability to smoke

Dude, go to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting and see if you still feel that way. I worked in a youth outreach program for many years and "I was trying drugs, and one day I tried heroin and really liked it. Now I'm here" is the most common story in that place.

I agree with your over all point though. The people who smoke weed responsibly shouldn't be held accountable for everyone who does hard drugs. That isn't right.

Did these people start out with pot or did they start with the legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol and mom's pills? From my hazy memory those were the ones almost everyone tried first

 

[utvolpj]

Equal opportunity does not equate to equal outcome. Something lost on a lot of people.

I agree but also believe many times we fall short of actually providing equal opportunities. If we're racing 100yds and I start at the 50 then we both had the opportunity to race but not to win

 

[theFallGuy]

possession with intent to smoke or provide someone else the ability to smoke

Did these people start out with pot or did they start with legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol? From my hazy memory those were the ones almost everyone tried first

When I was in high school finding someone to buy cigarettes or alcohol for you was pretty easy to do. I'd also say buying weed from someone was also just as easy because no one carded you. I've known at least 5 people who have died of an overdose. The progression was generally like this: alcohol/cigs/weed >> dabble in cocaine >> dabble in prescription medications >> heroin /

 

[LouderVol]

I agree but also believe many times we fall short of actually providing equal opportunities. If we're racing 100yds and I start at the 50 then we both had the opportunity to race but not to win

Uh. You winning in life means a black person cant?

Because my experiences tends to say otherwise.

 

[allvol123]

I agree but also believe many times we fall short of actually providing equal opportunities. If we're racing 100yds and I start at the 50 then we both had the opportunity to race but not to win

Weird, since many that supposedly started at the 50 have won.

 

[utvolpj]

Uh. You winning in life means a black person cant?

Because my experiences tends to say otherwise.

No I'm saying that a blanket statement claiming we all have equal opportunities ignores reality. Some must work harder to achieve the same level and if they don't get there some feel the need to put them down. Equal rights hasn't really been around long enough to claim equal opportunity for all

 

[utvolpj]

Weird, since many that supposedly started at the 50 have won.

Sure, a few have but not everyone had that drive or should be required to

 

[allvol123]

Sure, a few have but not everyone had that drive or should be required to

Shouldnt have to have that drive? Lol. No thanks, not signing on to that.

And it isnt just a few. People from all over the world come here and make it big, starting from the stands.

 

[utvolpj]

Shouldnt have to have that drive? Lol. No thanks, not signing on to that.

And it isnt just a few. People from all over the world come here and make it big, starting from the stands.

Yes, people should be allowed to be different. Those who choose not to fight twice as hard for the same outcome should not be belittled by those who didn't have to

 

[allvol123]

Yes, people should be allowed to be different. Those who choose not to fight twice as hard for the same outcome should not be belittled by those who didn't have to

I dont belittle anyone that doesnt choose to work twice as hard. If you want a laid back mediocre life, have at it. Plenty of people are happy with that.

I just belittle those that claim to want more but dont wont to do the work to get it.

 

[BigOrangeD]

I started a new thread, because I keep asking this question of the "woke" crowd of posters but can't get an answer.

Please give me examples of "systematic racism' that African Americans face that prevent them from succeeding in America. I truly would like to see what the thoughts are on this.

I am also curious as to why this "systematic racism" doesn't affect Asians, Hispanics, Middle-Eastern races the same ways

Doesn't exist. Individual racism does but not systematic.

 

[C-south]

Ok..16 seconds in is where your systemic racism argument implodes. Jamals schools are funded by what? Property taxes. Why dont black neighborhoods have nice restaurants and shopping? Because property taxes go up. People would like to build there because the taxes are so low but... Who doesn't want property taxes to go up? People living in the black neighborhood. What helps keep property taxes low? Crime for starters and a relatively low, often zero, level of pride in ownership and community. Who commits crime? People in the black neighborhood. So far the evil White man hasn't had a hand in keeping the neighborhood down or making sure Jamals schools are poorly funded even though the schools. Still, cities often tap other funds to offset the lack of property taxes to fund those schools. Yet oddly enough, they never improve. Such a mystery.....

Maybe they use to have a restaurant. Maybe Jamal’s brother robbed and shot some drug dealer then neighborhood cried racism after he was arrested and burned it down.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Imagine bragging about “asking this question” and “having this discussion” so many times and never paying enough attention to even get the name right...

I think you meant 'ax' didn't you?

 

[k-town_king]

Ok..16 seconds in is where your systemic racism argument implodes. Jamals schools are funded by what? Property taxes. Why dont black neighborhoods have nice restaurants and shopping? Because property taxes go up. People would like to build there because the taxes are so low but... Who doesn't want property taxes to go up? People living in the black neighborhood. What helps keep property taxes low? Crime for starters and a relatively low, often zero, level of pride in ownership and community. Who commits crime? People in the black neighborhood. So far the evil White man hasn't had a hand in keeping the neighborhood down or making sure Jamals schools are poorly funded even though the schools. Still, cities often tap other funds to offset the lack of property taxes to fund those schools. Yet oddly enough, they never improve. Such a mystery.....

The reason for the poor black communities of today are the government policies of the 40-60s that were designed to created poor black neighborhoods.

So everything you said is wrong like usual. People have posted several links even in this thread that can educate you.

 

[k-town_king]

I think you meant 'ax' didn't you?

Why are they a white person from East TN? We have some of the poorest English speakers in America here. I have never seen so many people who probably can't speak a sentence straight try to clown others speech when they probably sound like Cletus.

 

[1972 Grad]

The reason for the poor black communities of today are the government policies of the 40-60s that were designed to created poor black neighborhoods.

So everything you said is wrong like usual. People have posted several links even in this thread that can educate you.

What government policies "designed to create poor black neighborhoods" were implemented in the 40-60's that weren't in effect prior to that?

 

[LouderVol]

No I'm saying that a blanket statement claiming we all have equal opportunities ignores reality. Some must work harder to achieve the same level and if they don't get there some feel the need to put them down. Equal rights hasn't really been around long enough to claim equal opportunity for all

I think your opprotunity continuum is shifted. Imo we as society tend to look at things backwards. We see the end result and judge and assign guilt from there and that's the end of the conversation. Such to the point that being succesful is now held in a negative light. And the conversation starts for anyone who isnt succesful that society held them down.

I think there are certainly cases of that, but it's not a equal argument to start there and then go back and look at their life. You are shaping the facts to fit the hypothesis instead of the other way around. It why I challenge these studies to remove skin color from the equation. They pretend the only difference between an upper middle class white kid in the suburbs with both parents and an inner city lower class black kid who might have a parent in jail is their skin color.

They've narrowed the scope down to only see skin color despite all the qualifiers they throw in as well. As someone taking an honest look at their studies I wonder how they even use that as a starting point?

I think that same approach is taken with our "opportunities". We have such an immediate feedback loop in this country we dont value the incremental changes. To the point where we assume balance/equality is instantaneous and/or organic.

Nature tells us that is never the case. But we want to apply specifics to generalities. Which is why we get arguments about Jamal not getting the same results as Mike (or whatever the white kids name was).

 

[k-town_king]

What government policies "designed to create poor black neighborhoods" were implemented in the 40-60's that weren't in effect prior to that?

As old as you are I would think you would know. But then again you don't seem like the most informed. Here ya go even though its been posted several times.


The Racial Segregation of American Cities Was Anything But Accidental | History | Smithsonian Magazine

The United States’ History of Segregated Housing Continues to Limit Affordable Housing - Center for American Progress

"In the period spanning the middle of the 20th century, roughly from 1930 to 1960, housing discrimination was a feature of local, state, and federal policy as blacks migrated from the rural South and crowded into urban communities in the North. Such policies produced federal housing programs that lumped African Americans into highly segregated ghettoes.

Lenders, with the encouragement of the federal government, employed underwriting rules that preferred and sought to maintain racially white neighborhoods, a now discredited practice called redlining.13 Federal agencies financed nearly half of all suburban homes in the 1950s and 1960s, boom years in the creation of middle-class America, boosting homeownership rates from nearly 30 percent of the population to more than 60 percent by 1960.14 Of course, black applicants were left out. By one analysis, 98 percent of the loans approved by the federal government between 1934 and 1968 went to white applicants.15 Intentionally discriminatory housing and lending practices are unquestionably at the core of the hypersegregation of black Americans in urban communities.16"



The housing boom is what created wealth for most white Americans. Black people were denied the free wealth generated by these programs and also were pushed into overcrowed and purposely underfunded slums.