Serious question: how are other players being picked over Vols?

#1
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pharmDvol11

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#1
Please allow me to rant for one moment. I have watched a few football games (UT and non-UT) in my lifetime. I would consider myself a casual fan of numerous other teams that have no bearing on UT’s schedule. I just like football plain and simple. Which brings me to my point:

Based on level of success vs competition, it makes no sense whatsoever how a player’s body of work at Ball State, La Tech, Colorado and a myriad of other programs could be considered superior to the SEC. Players like Bituli and JJ should’ve been off the board by yesterday. I am a reasonable fan. I am not referring to every SINGLE case. However can find probably 20 players that have been drafted and I’m like “nah, take that cash and put it in the toilet”. I am not trying to crap on the dreams of others but I seriously don’t understand it.
 
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#3
#3
College performance does not equal NFL success. So, that's a big thing. You can produce at the college level and not be a highly sought after pro. So, I'll start with that.

But, having said that, a lot of these guys aren't as good as you think they are. There is a lot of what I have referred to as Maurice Jones-Drew Syndrome going on with Tennessee fandom.

When MJD was in Jacksonville, everyone thought he was great. He wasn't great. He was just the best we had.

There is a circle of life that y'all should have recognized by now.

1. Recruiting services underrate Tennessee signees.
2. The media does not select enough people for Preseason All-SEC.
3. Tennessee doesn't win football games.
4. The media doesn't pick many Tennessee players for All-SEC.
5. Draft picks from Tennessee are few.

Look at some of these guys and ask yourself if they would be playing on Tennessee teams of the past.
 
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#4
#4
VolBalls33 said:
Jennings is a top 15 WR in this class and is the one UT player I find vastly underrated. The Titans have 3 7th round picks and would love if they got him. Either way Jennings as a 7th rounder seems like a steal to me.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. It wouldn’t actually bother me if it works out for the best- which it might. But immediately this is a situation that hurts the player and the program. The players who in my opinion have earned a better payday than they are left with. And the program that doesn’t get kids drafted. Again it doesn’t bother me in the long run but not having kids drafted creates an extra hurdle in recruiting. jmo
 
#6
#6
99gator said:
College performance does not equal NFL success. So, that's a big thing. You can produce at the college level and not be a highly sought after pro. So, I'll start with that.

But, having said that, a lot of these guys aren't as good as you think they are. There is a lot of what I have referred to as Maurice Jones-Drew Syndrome going on with Tennessee fandom.

When MJD was in Jacksonville, everyone thought he was great. He wasn't great. He was just the best we had.

There is a circle of life that y'all should have recognized by now.

1. Recruiting services underrate Tennessee signees.
2. The media does select enough people for Preseason All-SEC.
3. Tennessee doesn't win football games.
4. The media doesn't pick many Tennessee players for All-SEC.
5. Draft picks from Tennessee are few.

Look at some of these guys and ask yourself if they would be playing on Tennessee teams of the past.
Click to expand...

JJ breaks tackles from Day 1 draft picks. Daniel Bituli tackles Day 1 draft picks. UT plays against future NFL teams and (some) find a lot of success. I understand your point that it doesn’t always transfer. We can argue both sides all day but the truth is that successful drafts require a bit of luck. In many cases these teams could’ve afforded to take the safer bets in earlier rounds. Don’t get me wrong I can root for the underdog- I am a UT fan after all! But an NAIA player seems like a bigger gamble than a successful SEC player on Day 1. That’s my point.
 
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#7
#7
If Jennings ends up not getting drafted, it is my opinion that he will make some teams pay when he signs as a free agent and tears up the league. I know opinions are like butt holes. Everybody has one and they all stink. He is so much better than most of the Joe Schmoe's from Podunk U. He played in the SEC. I feel better now. Thank you for letting me vent.
 
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#8
#8
pharmDvol11 said:
JJ breaks tackles from Day 1 draft picks. Daniel Bituli tackles Day 1 draft picks. UT plays against future NFL teams and (some) find a lot of success. I understand your point that it doesn’t always transfer. We can argue both sides all day but the truth is that successful drafts require a bit of luck. In many cases these teams could’ve afforded to take the safer bets in earlier rounds. Don’t get me wrong I can root for the underdog- I am a UT fan after all! But an NAIA player seems like a bigger gamble than a successful SEC player on Day 1. That’s my point.
Click to expand...

So what? AK and VU played LSU and went up against their many 2020 draft picks. As long as the SEC is in business, all of its teams will play against future NFL talent.
 
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#9
#9
I have no idea what the NFL looks at in a player when they draft so I just go by what I read. In Bituli they said his weakness is in pass coverage and for the most part the NFL is a passing league. Based on the negative for JJ was his speed and I guess for WR's they look at speed. I love JJ and I think he's a winner but I guess they also wonder what to do with someone like JJ? Speed hurts him playing WR...too small/short for a TE type? He'd be a great special team player, IMO....but do they use up a draft pick for a ST player if they have other needs?

I'd take JJ and some others down the board if I had a place to put them for sure.
 
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#10
#10
pharmDvol11 said:
JJ breaks tackles from Day 1 draft picks. Daniel Bituli tackles Day 1 draft picks. UT plays against future NFL teams and (some) find a lot of success. I understand your point that it doesn’t always transfer. We can argue both sides all day but the truth is that successful drafts require a bit of luck. In many cases these teams could’ve afforded to take the safer bets in earlier rounds. Don’t get me wrong I can root for the underdog- I am a UT fan after all! But an NAIA player seems like a bigger gamble than a successful SEC player on Day 1. That’s my point.
Click to expand...

You've pretty much answered your own questions, some of it is just luck and gambles.
 
#11
#11
Purple Tiger said:
So what? AK and VU played LSU and went up against their many 2020 draft picks. As long as the SEC is in business, all of its teams will play against future NFL talent.
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Ok... So to your point, in the majority of cases, the successful SEC players (UT or non-UT) should be drafted over successful non-Power 5 players. I could’ve named AK or VU players I would’ve taken. How are you even saying I am wrong?

Edited: Purple Tiger went nuts on my first sentence. Hopefully I cleared it up and kept somebody else from having an MI.
 
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#13
#13
JJ killed his own draft stock with a poor combine showing. Ran slow, had an awful vertical. NFL is all about measurables. Sure he broke a lot of tackles, that's because he can't outrun anyone. He's got good fight in him, but he also let several passes through his hands in televised games. I'm not surprised at all that he hasn't been picked. Speed is something you either have, or you don't. Don't act surprised when a 4.3 guy gets picked before his 4.72 time. There are QBs and LBs and some linemen running faster times than that. It just is what it is.
 
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#15
#15
Tnphil said:
I have no idea what the NFL looks at in a player when they draft so I just go by what I read. In Bituli they said his weakness is in pass coverage and for the most part the NFL is a passing league. Based on the negative for JJ was his speed and I guess for WR's they look at speed. I love JJ and I think he's a winner but I guess they also wonder what to do with someone like JJ? Speed hurts him playing WR...too small/short for a TE type? He'd be a great special team player, IMO....but do they use up a draft pick for a ST player if they have other needs?

I'd take JJ and some others down the board if I had a place to put them for sure.
Click to expand...

I have no idea how they grade and evaluate either. There’s always some head scratchers that get drafted. When you get to day 2-3 you see a lot of glaring weaknesses in reports. I could sleep well drafting an SEC player on Day 2. Most teams did...
 
#16
#16
pharmDvol11 said:
Ok... So to your point, in the majority of cases, the successful SEC players (UT or non-UT) over successful non-Power 5 players. I could’ve named AK or VU players I would’ve taken. How are you even saying I am wrong?
Click to expand...

We know the SEC is the best league out there. There is no question. But, the way some people speak, it's as if people in other leagues can't play.

There are plenty of small school guys that get it done. It's the same as high school. There are prospects who were 3* and 2* guys coming out of high school that went in the 1st round of the draft. Well, what happened? They gained 30 points. They dropped a few tenths of a second from their 40 time. They grew 3 inches. It happens.

Sometimes, it's easier to scout small school guys too. Great example. Which of the Alabama WR's is going to make the best pro? Who knows? And it's hard to know because they're all good and they all have Tua throwing to them. Was it them or Tua? Did Jeudy make it easy for Ruggs or did Ruggs make it easy for Jeudy? It's not until you get to the pros where you find out who the real alpha dog is.

The best things about JJ are things you can't measure.
 
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#19
#19
Believe or not, there is a point (i don't know if we are there yet) where the agent kind of lets a team know the player would rather not be drafted. Now, a team can still say too bad and draft him.

But, there is a point where Bituli, Jennings, etc., would rather pick the team they sign with as an undrafted FA than be selected by a team that they have no shot to make it.
 
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#21
#21
99gator said:
College performance does not equal NFL success. So, that's a big thing. You can produce at the college level and not be a highly sought after pro. So, I'll start with that.

But, having said that, a lot of these guys aren't as good as you think they are. There is a lot of what I have referred to as Maurice Jones-Drew Syndrome going on with Tennessee fandom.

When MJD was in Jacksonville, everyone thought he was great. He wasn't great. He was just the best we had.
Click to expand...

Methinks this MJD hatred may be from him pushing Fred Taylor to the curb. MJD averaged over 4.6 yards a carry for JAX, which is a very good number.

I won multiple fantasy football titles because of MJD so I'm a bit biased. I agree he wasnt HOF but he was a very, very good player

The rest of your post was spot on.
 
#22
#22
BigOrangeMojo said:
Methinks this MJD hatred may be from him pushing Fred Taylor to the curb. MJD averaged over 4.6 yards a carry for JAX, which is a very good number.

I won multiple fantasy football titles because of MJD so I'm a bit biased. I agree he wasnt HOF but he was a very, very good player

The rest of your post was spot on.
Click to expand...

There is no hatred. And he was a very good player. He just wasn't one of the elite football players in the game. he was the only player we had, so his numbers looked good. That's what happens when you use a 1st round pick on Matt Jones as a WR.

Which dovetails to an argument in favor of the OP? How the hell do Reggie Williams and Matt Jones get drafted in the first round as WR?
 
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#23
#23
99gator said:
We know the SEC is the best league out there. There is no question. But, the way some people speak, it's as if people in other leagues can't play.

There are plenty of small school guys that get it done. It's the same as high school. There are prospects who were 3* and 2* guys coming out of high school that went in the 1st round of the draft. Well, what happened? They gained 30 points. They dropped a few tenths of a second from their 40 time. They grew 3 inches. It happens.

Sometimes, it's easier to scout small school guys too. Great example. Which of the Alabama WR's is going to make the best pro? Who knows? And it's hard to know because they're all good and they all have Tua throwing to them. Was it them or Tua? Did Jeudy make it easy for Ruggs or did Ruggs make it easy for Jeudy? It's not until you get to the pros where you find out who the real alpha dog is.

The best things about JJ are things you can't measure.
Click to expand...

My problem here gator is I agree with you to a greater extent than I would like to lol. Again I’ve said a successful draft requires a fair amount of luck. We could name guys who went to no name schools and guys who went to big time schools who all became great. As for draft day, as a football fan, I would be more conservative than some teams. Sure it could end up biting me. But you could always argue it made sense at the time!
 
#24
#24
pharmDvol11 said:
My problem here gator is I agree with you to a greater extent than I would like to lol. Again I’ve said a successful draft requires a fair amount of luck. We could name guys who went to no name schools and guys who went to big time schools who all became great. As for draft day, as a football fan, I would be more conservative than some teams. Sure it could end up biting me. But you could always argue it made sense at the time!
Click to expand...

Half of the luck (IMO) is knowing which of these guys is going to work once the money hits their bank account. If I had a few million in the bank, I'd have a hard time rolling out of bed for OTA's too.
 
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#25
#25
OneManGang said:
Q: "(H)ow are other players being picked over Vols?"

A: They're better.

You're welcome.
Click to expand...

Thank you. It really is that simple. And folks on here look really foolish when they act like they know more than NFL scouts and evaluators.

If anything, it says everything we need to know as to why this program has struggled so mightily over the past decade+ ... we simply are not developing players. And it doesn’t matter if they are 5, 4, or whatever star recruits. Our recent staffs have not been able to turn many of them into NFL draft picks,
 
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