Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

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#121,206
#121,206
utvols88 said:
Arresting a pastor for opening the church doors IS tangible. Prior to that, i would have agreed with you. When I will worry is if it is deemed ok by the courts. Then I'll truly worry but I hope it's not.

Imagine your position if it happens again but you dont agree with the measures. There is precedent at that point.
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well, in my experience, when victims seek to be victimized, they're usually successful......there's legal precedent for shelter at home orders as well, precedents set for mandatory evacuations etc........and when there's emergency situations or during riots or some other "harmful" event, those things occur....we just never hear about them because they're usually localized.....and not worthy of national attention. which, again, is what makes this so unique....the scale of this is unprecedented.

but, to your last point, that's one of the reasons i am concerned about a 2nd shut down. the goal here is to stop/slow the spread so it can be managed appropriately from a healthcare resource standpoint, and prevent as many infected and fatalities as possible.

if we fail the first time around, and we don't accomplish that goal, the goal doesn't change the 2nd time around....the method does.

it's like the chicken or egg argument.............if that moron had stayed home like everyone thinks he should have, we wouldn't even be having this debate.

but noooo....now he's got attenion put on what DOESN'T matter to this endeavor....and there will be folks, as has been the case here for the past two days, completely focused on THIS issue, and when we do have to shut it down again, and the measures are stricter, they'll be the ones with the "see i told ya so's"....with no regard for the fact htat it's guys like doofus in florida that are at the very least contributing factors as to why the first time didn't work, and there's a need for a 2nd go around.....

stay freaking home. we need to get this done in one shot....for a lot of reasons, but yes, one of those is because the 2nd time around wont' be much fun because guys like FL preacher just couldn't get it right the first time.

not to mention that if more people pick up the mantle that guy did, this thing wont' stop spreading or slow down enough to quell the spread....which was the point to begin with....


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#121,207
#121,207
utvols88 said:
That leap is sponsored by an actual arrest. That's it. I dont disagree with the preventative recommendations. I agree with them. But overreach is a fine line. You want to believe "this cant happen here" despite that fact that it has already. I will not prolong this discussion as I will agree to disagree.
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that arrest whether you think it's warranted or not, has nothing to do with overreach. it's easily argued that given the extreme contagious nature of the virus, and that the ONLY cure that exists is to not get sick, that he was willfully putting people harms way.

they didn't arrest him because he was exercising 1st ammendment rights, and that's not allowed ever again.....because all the sudden we've fundamentally changed the core belief structure of our country.......any discussion about that, has been purely speculative...as talking points. not implementation of new world order.........

that's a distinction that makes a huge difference.... hence, giant leap.

now, if we get to the end of this, and all mandates are over, and they go arrest him for preaching, then i'm with ya.

until then.................
 
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#121,208
#121,208
jakez4ut said:
that arrest whether you think it's warranted or not, has nothing to do with overreach. it's easily argued that given the extreme contagious nature of the virus, and that the ONLY cure that exists is to not get sick, that he was willfully putting people harms way.

they didn't arrest him because he was exercising 1st ammendment rights, and that's not allowed ever again.....because all the sudden we've fundamentally changed the core belief structure of our country.......any discussion about that, has been purely speculative...as talking points. not implementation of new world order.........

that's a distinction that makes a huge difference.... hence, giant leap.

now, if we get to the end of this, and all mandates are over, and they go arrest him for preaching, then i'm with ya.

until then.................
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How was he willfully putting people in harm's way? He did not force anybody to attend and all attendees are certainly aware of the existence of the virus at this point.
 
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#121,209
#121,209
Pepe_Silvia said:
What about the pastor's 1st Amendment right to assembly?
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will pick right back up where it left off as soon as the shelter at home order is lifted.

just like EVERYONE ELSE's right to assemble....at movie theatres, gyms, restaurants, schools, libraries, public pools, beaches, basketball games, etc, etc, etc...............
 
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#121,211
#121,211
jakez4ut said:
will pick right back up where it left off as soon as the shelter at home order is lifted.

just like EVERYONE ELSE's right to assemble....at movie theatres, gyms, restaurants, schools, libraries, public pools, beaches, basketball games, etc, etc, etc...............
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The fact that EVERYONE'S right to assemble is being violated is no justification for the violation itself. The rights enshrined in the Constitution are inalienable. They dont exist just when the government decides it's appropriate and they can't be taken and then given back. To think otherwise would be an assumption that we dont actually have any rights.
 
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#121,212
#121,212
Pepe_Silvia said:
The fact that EVERYONE'S right to assemble is being violated is no justification for the violation itself. The rights enshrined in the Constitution are inalienable. They dont exist just when the government decides it's appropriate and they can't be taken and then given back. To think otherwise would be an assumption that we dont actually have any rights.
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Some people missed history and civics class.
 
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#121,213
#121,213
Pepe_Silvia said:
How was he willfully putting people in harm's way? He did not force anybody to attend and all attendees are certainly aware of the existence of the virus at this point.
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really?
was he not aware of the shelter at home? not aware of the reason for it? not aware of the acute danger one might be in should the contract the virus? the potential mulitplier of newly contagious people to the population at large?

c'mon. he set out to make a point, that is not, was not, and will never be relevant to the actual purpose of the measure he either doesn't believe in or willfully ignored. either way....yes, he created the environment. and as i've said many times the last couple of days...people are stupid, and since they're stupid, they'll show up at a church if dummies open the doors....would be the same if it was the GM of a mall or a manager at a movie theater...some dummies would show up ready to shop or take in a matinee....

hence the shelter at home order.....cause...the goal...is...to....stop...the...spread........and people are incapable of doing that on their own....as seen by the 50 people that threw a birthday party in NJ the other day, or the crowded beaches over the weekend, or this doofus holding service for 1200 people.....

lol........
 
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#121,215
#121,215
jakez4ut said:
really?
was he not aware of the shelter at home? not aware of the reason for it? not aware of the acute danger one might be in should the contract the virus? the potential mulitplier of newly contagious people to the population at large?

c'mon. he set out to make a point, that is not, was not, and will never be relevant to the actual purpose of the measure he either doesn't believe in or willfully ignored. either way....yes, he created the environment. and as i've said many times the last couple of days...people are stupid, and since they're stupid, they'll show up at a church if dummies open the doors....would be the same if it was the GM of a mall or a manager at a movie theater...some dummies would show up ready to shop or take in a matinee....

hence the shelter at home order.....cause...the goal...is...to....stop...the...spread........and people are incapable of doing that on their own....as seen by the 50 people that threw a birthday party in NJ the other day, or the crowded beaches over the weekend, or this doofus holding service for 1200 people.....

lol........
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Again, he did not put anybody in danger. All who attended were there of their own accord and with full knowledge of the existence of the virus.

If people are stupid, then why should we trust a government made up of...get this...people?
 
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#121,216
#121,216
Pepe_Silvia said:
The problem is that we as a society have been conditioned to accept government overreach as a matter of course. It's taken well over 100 years of conditioning to accomplish but much of the individualistic spirit of this country has been tamped down.
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how far back do you think we should go back to where government stayed out of our personal lives? People in general are stupid. At times when government intervenes for the betterment of society, it is a good thing.
 
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#121,217
#121,217
Pepe_Silvia said:
The fact that EVERYONE'S right to assemble is being violated is no justification for the violation itself. The rights enshrined in the Constitution are inalienable. They dont exist just when the government decides it's appropriate and they can't be taken and then given back. To think otherwise would be an assumption that we dont actually have any rights.
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i didn't say it was.

i just said it applies to everyone right now.

this isn't new. shelter at home orders, and other orders like it it, can suspend certain rights, like the right to assemble....siap, people are made to do things sometims against their will, when special circumstance arises...like deadly weather or some public harm situation, like forest fires, or riots or whatever....this virus qualifies.

they just don't last as long as this is, nor do they encompas the whole country like this has....the scale and scope is unprecedented. the action of doing it, is not.

it's a special circumstance that allows temporary restrictions....that's it. and it's done for a specific purpose in response to a specific situation/circumstance, and usually, for a very short period of time....

this has nothing to do with permenantly revoking inaliable rights...nothing. it has everything to do with preventing stupid, selfish people potentially putting others in harm's way....
 
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#121,218
#121,218
Pepe_Silvia said:
The problem is that we as a society have been conditioned to accept government overreach as a matter of course. It's taken well over 100 years of conditioning to accomplish but much of the individualistic spirit of this country has been tamped down.
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Police Power - capacity of the state to enforce order for the betterment of the health, safety, morals, and general welfare of their inhabitants. Constitutional if the laws apply equally to all under the same circumstances.
 
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#121,219
#121,219
Pepe_Silvia said:
Again, he did not put anybody in danger. All who attended were there of their own accord and with full knowledge of the existence of the virus.

If people are stupid, then why should we trust a government made up of...get this...people?
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And it’s not about them ATTENDING. It’s the LEAVING afterwards and SPREADING by going to stores...thus affecting the lives of those who didn’t choose to ATTEND. No individual’s rights or group’s thereof supersede the rest of the population.
 
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#121,223
#121,223
SIAP...I’ve skimmed the comments from the past several days. I saw this video and it provided me some comfort that I have some control over my own health.

 
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#121,224
#121,224
Kristy* said:
Police Power - capacity of the state to enforce order for the betterment of the health, safety, morals, and general welfare of their inhabitants. Constitutional if the laws apply equally to all under the same circumstances.
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They are still bound by the Constitution. Police powers do not give the government unlimited authority.
 
#121,225
#121,225
titansvolsfaninga said:
how far back do you think we should go back to where government stayed out of our personal lives? People in general are stupid. At times when government intervenes for the betterment of society, it is a good thing.
Click to expand...

People are stupid. Thus government, as a collection of people, must also be stupid. Why should anybody put much faith in them?
 
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