Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

[volinbham]

Obviously these aren't easy decisions but listening to him it's inescapable that there's no plan, nor is there any criteria being used to frame one.

He's just saying whatever impulse drives him to say from hour to hour.

I guarantee the team has discussed this option.

 

[volinbham]

That makes more sense. You know the old saying "possession is 9/10 of the law". Once these things get distributed no state is going to give one up unless they have 20,000 of them laying around unused.

NY already has thousands that are not yet in use. More are coming with the Navy hospital. It would be nuts to send even more (unless its clear they are needed) then as you say try to repossess them and send them somewhere else.

Even if there weren't political considerations it's just not logistically sound to distribute that way.

 

[Velo Vol]

I guarantee the team has discussed this option.

He spends more time listening to the TV than to the team.

 

[VolStrom]

He spends more time listening to the TV than to the team.

And you know this how?

 

[Stew Cook]

He spends more time listening to the TV than to the team.

Well if he reads VNPF, seems like he's paying attention to some more than others.

 

[TennTradition]

Actually I think the plan is to keep them more centrally located and distribute based on need rather than send a bunch to one place then move them again and again.

I meant you put them there when they ARE NEEDED (days ahead preferably) and don’t hold everyone else’s share in reserve in case the eventually need them. Not that you move them all there now in case they need them. Makes no sense to me to keep 80% in storage if NY eventually needs more. Almost all other cities are further back on the curve than NY (but not all - Detroit and NOLA aren’t far behind if at all).

 

[volinbham]

He spends more time listening to the TV than to the team.

Sure :eyeroll:

I agree that how he communicated this is bad. It's a big bombshell to drop but to claim that he's just making these ideas up himself is ridiculous. I'd bet even Cuomo's team has had discussions about enforced quarantines. It's SOP.

 

[Stew Cook]

I meant you put them there when they ARE NEEDED (days ahead preferably) and don’t hold everyone else’s share in reserve in case the eventually need them. Not that you move them all there now in case they need them. Makes no sense to me to keep 80% in storage if NY eventually needs more. Almost all other cities are further back on the curve than NY (but not all - Detroit and NOLA aren’t far behind if at all).

Considering that extreme containment measures are being considered, emphasis on those containment areas seems, quite simply, appropriate.

 

[volinbham]

I meant you put them there when they ARE NEEDED (days ahead preferably) and don’t hold everyone else’s share in reserve in case the eventually need them. Not that you move them all there now in case they need them. Makes no sense to me to keep 80% in storage if NY eventually needs more. Almost all other cities are further back on the curve than NY (but not all - Detroit and NOLA aren’t far behind if at all).

yes.

I still think Cuomo's operating from old data and flawed models if he claims he needs 30,000 vents for peak. That's 1 million concurrent cases in NY state alone. Nowhere (even Italy, China (if we can believe) them) are seeing that kind of load.

 

[Weezer]

You put them there until they are needed elsewhere. You don’t hold them back to distribute equitably if needed later. You make that decision once it’s required.

So you send them all to NY. Then when you need them elsewhere, too bad, they're already in use in NY. Or are you saying you remove patients in NY from ventilators and let them die so other states can get a fair ration.

 

[NCFisher]

You put them there until they are needed elsewhere. You don’t hold them back to distribute equitably if needed later. You make that decision once it’s required.

I disagree; that's terrible supply management and terribly unfair. The potential life that may need a ventilator in Birmingham, Tulsa, or Casper is just as important as the potential life in NY. Let's say we transfer them to NY, and within two weeks they're using them all. Do you unplug Joe Brooklyn and equitably distribute to Susie Birmingham when she gets sick? That won't happen. Therefore, you made the decision prior that potential NY lives were more important than potential AL lives.

Okay, bad example since any lives are worth more than Bama lives, but you get the point.
You establish usage thresholds for determining when to reallocate resources. You absolutely don't give NY all the toys and stiff LA, for example.

 

[Stew Cook]

So you send them all to NY. Then when you need them elsewhere, too bad, they're already in use in NY. Or are you saying you remove patients in NY from ventilators and let them die so other states can get a fair ration.

who said anything about sending them all? hot spots are across the nation.

 

[DynaLo]

Oh my

Trump considers 'enforceable' quarantine in New York, New Jersey and parts of Connecticut

This is scary stuff.

 

[Weezer]

Imagine if Cuomo would have just addressed the ventilator need when he had the chance. But I guess that would have robbed some people of the chance to blame Trump.

 

[volinbham]

who said anything about sending them all? hot spots are across the nation.

I get what TT is saying that you don't allocate by population, you allocate by need.

That said, even the hottest of hotspots is sitting on thousands of unused vents at this time. Given it might take 5 days max to transport them there's no need at this time to pull from the national reserve to send to NY.

They currently have more in storage (in NY) then they are using. In other words they have vent capacity 3 to 4 times the current need now. They may end up needing more but there is time to get them there if that appears likely.

 

[NCFisher]

View attachment 268744

Cuomo should have already restricted travel to/from the state. CT's been yelling about it.

 

[Electric Orange]

 

[TennTradition]

yes.

I still think Cuomo's operating from old data and flawed models if he claims he needs 30,000 vents for peak. That's 1 million concurrent cases in NY state alone. Nowhere (even Italy, China (if we can believe) them) are seeing that kind of load.

I agree that it seems he is still using the previously more aggressive estimates (pre-revised models and pre-quarantine). But I don’t know I’ve been humbled by this whole process. I followed this closely in January in China because of my job. Didn’t realize until late February what it meant for the US. And I’m still playing catch up.

 

[Purple Tiger]

We tried it your way with an America hating racist POS for 8 years and that was a massive failure, we needed a different direction and that was going great until this sham was started

Great. You think covid-19 is a sham. Not a mental giant, are you?

 

[Purple Tiger]

Methinks the Lincoln and Holland tunnels will be backed up a bit today.

The PATH trains, too.

 

[Stew Cook]

Imagine if Cuomo would have just addressed the ventilator need when he had the chance. But I guess that would have robbed some people of the chance to blame Trump.

Well, Trump said Cuomo didn't need them. maybe he should seize Cuomo's shipments of ventilators coming in from other places and put them in a central warehouse.

 

[Purple Tiger]

I only got Mexican radio on the AM, I normally say pistola..

 

[VolStrom]

I disagree; that's terrible supply management and terribly unfair. The potential life that may need a ventilator in Birmingham, Tulsa, or Casper is just as important as the potential life in NY. Let's say we transfer them to NY, and within two weeks they're using them all. Do you unplug Joe Brooklyn and equitably distribute to Susie Birmingham when she gets sick? That won't happen. Therefore, you made the decision prior that potential NY lives were more important than potential AL lives.

Okay, bad example since any lives are worth more than Bama lives, but you get the point.
You establish usage thresholds for determining when to reallocate resources. You absolutely don't give NY all the toys and stiff LA, for example.

Once the demand outstrips supply is when the crap is going to hit the fan. How do they decide where to distribute the available ventilators when they don't have enough to ship.

 

[TennTradition]

So you send them all to NY. Then when you need them elsewhere, too bad, they're already in use in NY. Or are you saying you remove patients in NY from ventilators and let them die so other states can get a fair ration.

I’m saying that if NY patients get sick first and there aren’t enough ventilators, you give them the ones you have. You don’t let people die now because people might be dying in three weeks in Chicago. If we run out then I think you can make a strong case that those ventilators provided by the government should be appropriated based on a distributed need across the country. I don’t think you take patients off as much as you don’t put new patients on as they become available and you move those ventilators to other areas of need. It’s a horrible thought. I’m hopeful we won’t have to make those decisions.

 

[Stew Cook]

I get what TT is saying that you don't allocate by population, you allocate by need.

That said, even the hottest of hotspots is sitting on thousands of unused vents at this time. Given it might take 5 days max to transport them there's no need at this time to pull from the national reserve to send to NY.

They currently have more in storage (in NY) then they are using. In other words they have vent capacity 3 to 4 times the current need now. They may end up needing more but there is time to get them there if that appears likely.

Sure, that's another perspective.. but these things stack pretty well on a transport plane/chopper. Remember those "heroic" Coast Guard guys dropping off those test kits on the cruise ship. I'm sure we would see more of this heroism, with the expediency.