Excited about the win

#76
#76
I expected Turner and Bowden to be dominant senior guards. I also expected us to be in huge trouble in the post. I was wrong on both.

Ive enjoyed watching the games through the struggles. They’re still fighting and scrapping for wins. I’m still hoping Bowden can find a hot shooting streak which could carry this team into the dance.
 
#77
#77
I am guessing that you have changed your mind on VS by now.. He went for 20pts. 8 Assists, and 3 TOs last night. He might be the best PG we have had in a while. Bone was nowhere near VS after a month on the team and Bone had preseason to get ready. He has been with the team for only 1 month and has improved dramatically. Watch him on D, he automatically picks up any player that is the greatest threat to score regardless of whose man it might be. Our O is almost nonexistent when he comes out of the game - hence the heavy minutes he is playing. The only weakness I have seen is he lets the press get too close to him before he decides to do something with the ball and, like most lefties, he is extremely left dominant.
No one claimed SV (not VS) was a bad PG, though. Just that his skills may be best utilized as either a combo guard (a la L. Turner) or as an off-guard (a la JaJuan Smith). Turner and Smith could play both positions, if necessary, but it held them back and neutralized a lot of what they excelled at as players.

Like Bruin, I believed a month ago, that Vescovi’s future, at least next season, was best suited for the 2g spot because of his limitations as a ball-handler, his ability as a shooter, and his ability to create from the wing. SV is much better creating from the wing and when things break down defensively. When forced to facilitate from the top of the key in a half court offense, he is pretty average. Just rewatch last night’s game and see where most of his best plays occurred.

As for next season, Springer really excels at getting in the paint and finishing at the rim, but his outside shot is a work in progress. Derrick Rose at Memphis is probably a fair comp, stylistically. Springer is also, most likely a PG at the NBA level. Playing PG next season puts his best skills to best use. It also allows Vescovi to play on the wing, where he seems to be at his best, both shooting and creating from the wing, and then also fill in minutes at PG in relief.

Now, in full disclosure, SV has improved so much after one month, that I am curious (and excited) to see what an entire offseason can do for his ball-handling and decision-making. He could completely transform himself over the next 8 months. Having too many PGs is never a problem.
 
#78
#78
Now, in full disclosure, SV has improved so much after one month, that I am curious (and excited) to see what an entire offseason can do for his ball-handling and decision-making. He could completely transform himself over the next 8 months. Having too many PGs is never a problem.

This for sure, he's very uncomfortable dribbling to his right or with his right hand. Kim English & staff will without a doubt work on his ball-handling a ton. I've seen Pons, Bone, Bowden, Admiral, and even Turner all get better every year in this area, and SV is a sponge for learning it seems. I do think Springer ends up playing at the PG spot, but he'll likely start the season playing 2 or behind Santiago just because Barnes likes experience in his system for his PGs typically.

SV with a full off-season of strength & conditioning plus extra time working on his ball handling though is indeed something to be excited about. The real wildcard imo is how good is Bailey and where does he play?

Fulkerson at the 5 is the only starter I without question would pencil in for next season. With JJJ, Pons, Keon, Springer, Bailey, Santiago, Walker, Jalen, Gaines and even Olivier on the squad there's lots of options for the other 4 starters.
 
#79
#79
This for sure, he's very uncomfortable dribbling to his right or with his right hand. Kim English & staff will without a doubt work on his ball-handling a ton. I've seen Pons, Bone, Bowden, Admiral, and even Turner all get better every year in this area, and SV is a sponge for learning it seems. I do think Springer ends up playing at the PG spot, but he'll likely start the season playing 2 or behind Santiago just because Barnes likes experience in his system for his PGs typically.

SV with a full off-season of strength & conditioning plus extra time working on his ball handling though is indeed something to be excited about. The real wildcard imo is how good is Bailey and where does he play?

Fulkerson at the 5 is the only starter I without question would pencil in for next season. With JJJ, Pons, Keon, Springer, Bailey, Santiago, Walker, Jalen, Gaines and even Olivier on the squad there's lots of options for the other 4 starters.
Next season seems, on paper, like an ideal opportunity to RS Gaines. I love his upside, but he needs an entire season and two offseasons dedicated to strength training and nutrition. If he could add 25 lbs of muscle, he could really make a difference as a rSO in 2021-22. 18 solid months starting in April should allow him to add some necessary mass and strength. Right now, he couldn’t tattoo his name on his arm without hyphenating it.
 
#80
#80
No one claimed SV (not VS) was a bad PG, though. Just that his skills may be best utilized as either a combo guard (a la L. Turner) or as an off-guard (a la JaJuan Smith). Turner and Smith could play both positions, if necessary, but it held them back and neutralized a lot of what they excelled at as players.

Like Bruin, I believed a month ago, that Vescovi’s future, at least next season, was best suited for the 2g spot because of his limitations as a ball-handler, his ability as a shooter, and his ability to create from the wing. SV is much better creating from the wing and when things break down defensively. When forced to facilitate from the top of the key in a half court offense, he is pretty average. Just rewatch last night’s game and see where most of his best plays occurred.

As for next season, Springer really excels at getting in the paint and finishing at the rim, but his outside shot is a work in progress. Derrick Rose at Memphis is probably a fair comp, stylistically. Springer is also, most likely a PG at the NBA level. Playing PG next season puts his best skills to best use. It also allows Vescovi to play on the wing, where he seems to be at his best, both shooting and creating from the wing, and then also fill in minutes at PG in relief.

Now, in full disclosure, SV has improved so much after one month, that I am curious (and excited) to see what an entire offseason can do for his ball-handling and decision-making. He could completely transform himself over the next 8 months. Having too many PGs is never a problem.

His two best passes (both to Pons) were started just left of the top of the key (IIRC). Facilitators can facilitate from anywhere so I completely disagree on the "average" part of your statement.
 
#81
#81
I am guessing that you have changed your mind on VS by now.. He went for 20pts. 8 Assists, and 3 TOs last night. He might be the best PG we have had in a while. Bone was nowhere near VS after a month on the team and Bone had preseason to get ready. He has been with the team for only 1 month and has improved dramatically. Watch him on D, he automatically picks up any player that is the greatest threat to score regardless of whose man it might be. Our O is almost nonexistent when he comes out of the game - hence the heavy minutes he is playing. The only weakness I have seen is he lets the press get too close to him before he decides to do something with the ball and, like most lefties, he is extremely left dominant.

I think SV is one tough SOB, one dang good shooter and competes his ass off. I still don’t like the lack of speed on the court but love how Barnes is covering that issue with Bowden getting us into the offense with SV playing the SG in a lot of possessions. I don’t think SV is going to be our 35 min a game PG next year but I damn sure am glad he’s a Vol
 
#82
#82
This for sure, he's very uncomfortable dribbling to his right or with his right hand. Kim English & staff will without a doubt work on his ball-handling a ton. I've seen Pons, Bone, Bowden, Admiral, and even Turner all get better every year in this area, and SV is a sponge for learning it seems. I do think Springer ends up playing at the PG spot, but he'll likely start the season playing 2 or behind Santiago just because Barnes likes experience in his system for his PGs typically.

SV with a full off-season of strength & conditioning plus extra time working on his ball handling though is indeed something to be excited about. The real wildcard imo is how good is Bailey and where does he play?

Fulkerson at the 5 is the only starter I without question would pencil in for next season. With JJJ, Pons, Keon, Springer, Bailey, Santiago, Walker, Jalen, Gaines and even Olivier on the squad there's lots of options for the other 4 starters.
If Pons returns (can’t believe we can now say this) then he’s as sure a starter as Fulky. CRB continues to say Pons is the hardest worker on the team. His improvements this season are incredible. Who knows how much farther he might come next year. Maybe he’ll develop some dribbling skills and finally become the slasher we all expect.
 
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#83
#83
Next season seems, on paper, like an ideal opportunity to RS Gaines. I love his upside, but he needs an entire season and two offseasons dedicated to strength training and nutrition. If he could add 25 lbs of muscle, he could really make a difference as a rSO in 2021-22. 18 solid months starting in April should allow him to add some necessary mass and strength. Right now, he couldn’t tattoo his name on his arm without hyphenating it.
I would like to see Pember and Gaines both red shirt next year. The only reason I think Gaines might not is because of his defensive ability. He is long and gets his hands on a lot of passes. If you look at the bodies we will have next year that can play the 3 and 4 it seems like those two could take a year in the weight room and then find good playing time opportunities their redshirt sophomore years.
 
#84
#84
This is the way I see our team next year in terms of positions. It looks like a real log Jam at the 2,3, and 4 positions. I may be off on Bailey and Walker in terms of where they end up though. This is why I think Gaines and Pember may redshirt.

Springer- 1 or 2
Keon -2 or 3
Walker-3 or 4
Vescovi 1 or 2
Nkamhou 4 or 5
Gaines- 3
Pember 3 or 4
Bailey 2 or 3
JJJ 1 or 3
JJ- 2 or 3
Fulky- 4 or 5
Plavsic 5
Pons 3 or 4
 
#85
#85
"ideally" this is my healthy team going into next season

Starting 5:
PG - Springer
SG - Santiago
SF - James
PF - Pons
C - Fulky

6th man Bailey OR Keon OR Jalen
Frontcourt off the bench guys Olivier, Walker, Uros

That's a 10/11 man rotation with guys being able to RS. There's a chance Walker could even RS potentially which would be great, if we're healthy enough and Olivier/Uros are playing well enough we don't need extra bodies to step up.

RS - Gaines & Pember
 
#86
#86
His two best passes (both to Pons) were started just left of the top of the key (IIRC). Facilitators can facilitate from anywhere so I completely disagree on the "average" part of your statement.
Well, cherry-picking a couple individual plays can prove or disprove any theory. And an important aspect to both those plays you mentioned were that they started at the “left of the key”, his strong hand. You haven’t seen him attack the paint like that with success with his right hand, maybe ever, to this point. The totality of it all supports my belief, so far. Feel free to disagree with the level of his ability in that aspect. If you want to call it above average, that’s fine. Semantics really. I won’t fight you over it even if I disagree.
 
#87
#87
I would like to see Pember and Gaines both red shirt next year. The only reason I think Gaines might not is because of his defensive ability. He is long and gets his hands on a lot of passes. If you look at the bodies we will have next year that can play the 3 and 4 it seems like those two could take a year in the weight room and then find good playing time opportunities their redshirt sophomore years.
Springer and Keon are both equally as good, defensively, and possibly better. They can absorb DG’s defensive presence and allow him to RS, but I agree that he is really good defensively. Seems like he has an 11-ft wingspan.
 
#88
#88
"ideally" this is my healthy team going into next season

Starting 5:
PG - Springer
SG - Santiago
SF - James
PF - Pons
C - Fulky

6th man Bailey OR Keon OR Jalen
Frontcourt off the bench guys Olivier, Walker, Uros

That's a 10/11 man rotation with guys being able to RS. There's a chance Walker could even RS potentially which would be great, if we're healthy enough and Olivier/Uros are playing well enough we don't need extra bodies to step up.

RS - Gaines & Pember
Not really disagreeing with you but if Keon is as good as they say defensively it seems like he will find a starting spot. And I wonder about Bailey. I haven't ever seen him play but I heard he wasn't getting too much time when he left Oregon. Just not sure where he fits into the picture. What does he bring to the table? Also will he be considered a Sophomore or Jr?
 
#89
#89
Well, cherry-picking a couple individual plays can prove or disprove any theory. And an important aspect to both those plays you mentioned were that they started at the “left of the key”, his strong hand. You haven’t seen him attack the paint like that with success with his right hand, maybe ever, to this point. The totality of it all supports my belief, so far. Feel free to disagree with the level of his ability in that aspect. If you want to call it above average, that’s fine. Semantics really. I won’t fight you over it even if I disagree.

The problem is you're not quantifying average.

Santiago is a successful SEC D1 player, with just a month under his belt. He's far above average. BUT his ball handling at this level is "average" I love the kid, like full out LOVE everything about his game. But he isn't even a top 10 PG in the SEC with his current skill set.

I hope he continues to grow this season and develops more in the off-season though, I think he can end up being really special. Not sure he'll ever be Bone level speed/quick, but to be fair not many can be. He also hasn't gotten off the "bad weight" as Barnes would say most freshman need to do.

So I think it's pretty fair to say he's average at the PG in the SEC/Power 5 world. He doesn't do well with pressure, hasn't been great going to the rim, and has yet to show comfort with the right hand. He's gritty, has a beautiful shot, passes extremely well, has a great IQ for the game, and is getting better every game defensively though.

Still right now he's a 2 that's playing the 1, I have faith the young man can become a truly good PG though if he stays 3 more years and continues to grow under Barnes' developing.
 
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#90
#90
Not really disagreeing with you but if Keon is as good as they say defensively it seems like he will find a starting spot. And I wonder about Bailey. I haven't ever seen him play but I heard he wasn't getting too much time when he left Oregon. Just not sure where he fits into the picture. What does he bring to the table? Also will he be considered a Sophomore or Jr?

Bailey will be a junior. His offense is starter worthy. His defense is behind. But Barnes has a system on defense that he should be able to learn. I think that Bailey starts in November. Too bad basketball isn't 6 on 6. I don't know who sits. Vescovi? JJJ? Keon? Springer? Pons? Fulky? It may not matter who starts. The matchups will dictate the distribution of minutes. Need defense? Keon plays more. Need offense? Bailey and Vescovi play more. Need size? Uros, Walker, Pons, Fulky, JJJ, and O(R)N play more.
 
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#91
#91
Not really disagreeing with you but if Keon is as good as they say defensively it seems like he will find a starting spot. And I wonder about Bailey. I haven't ever seen him play but I heard he wasn't getting too much time when he left Oregon. Just not sure where he fits into the picture. What does he bring to the table? Also will he be considered a Sophomore or Jr?

Bailey will be a RS-Junior next season with 2 years of eligibility. He was a top 100 player coming outta HS, I just don't think Oregon fit him for whatever reason.

He however was very productive in his limited time at Oregon. Despite only averaging 17.9 minutes a game he left with 7ppg, 1.9rpg, 0.9apg, 0.5spg scored in double digits in 24 of 73 games he saw action in.

He's a very efficient scorer and for his production was averaging less than 6 shots a game. 41.5% from the field, 38.3% from 3 and 88.9% from the line.
 
#92
#92
Bailey will be a junior. His offense is starter worthy. His defense is behind. But Barnes has a system on defense that he should be able to learn. I think that Bailey starts in November. Too bad basketball isn't 6 on 6. I don't know who sits. Vescovi? JJJ? Keon? Springer? Pons? Fulky? It may not matter who starts. The matchups will dictate the distribution of minutes. Need defense? Keon plays more. Need offense? Bailey and Vescovi play more. Need size? Uros, Walker, Pons, Fulky, JJJ, and O(R)N play more.

I thought he was considered a pretty good defender?
 
#97
#97
The problem is you're not quantifying average.

Santiago is a successful SEC D1 player, with just a month under his belt. He's far above average. BUT his ball handling at this level is "average" I love the kid, like full out LOVE everything about his game. But he isn't even a top 10 PG in the SEC with his current skill set.

I hope he continues to grow this season and develops more in the off-season though, I think he can end up being really special. Not sure he'll ever be Bone level speed/quick, but to be fair not many can be. He also hasn't gotten off the "bad weight" as Barnes would say most freshman need to do.

So I think it's pretty fair to say he's average at the PG in the SEC/Power 5 world. He doesn't do well with pressure, hasn't been great going to the rim, and has yet to show comfort with the right hand. He's gritty, has a beautiful shot, passes extremely well, has a great IQ for the game, and is getting better every game defensively though.

Still right now he's a 2 that's playing the 1, I have faith the young man can become a truly good PG though if he stays 3 more years and continues to grow under Barnes' developing.
Well, my post was already long enough without quantifying “average”. Short story long, though, his ability to breakdown a defense and get to the paint in the half court offense is neither terrible, nor elite, at this point, mostly because of his limitations with his ball-handling. IMO, it is average by Power 6 standards, though with room to improve as his ball-handling and quickness (hopefully) improve. To me, he is at his best when chaos ensues for the defense, defenders try to switch, and he is able to get to the paint from the wings and multiple guys collapse on him, and then obviously his outside shot is better than average, though he needs space because he has a slower release.
 
#98
#98
I'm just hopeful that SV getting in better shape helps improve his quickness. I've seen him flash enough juice to get around guys, but think with how he works on defense and how much of a grind D1 ball is he just doesn't have the conditioning to get out of 3rd gear much, if that makes sense.

Excited to see Springer & Keon get here though. All that talent in the guards will just help everyone elevate their game.
 
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#99
#99
A slumpbuster is if a team's in a slump, or if you personally are in a slump, you gotta find the fatest, gnarliest, grossest chick and you just gotta lay the wood to her. And when you do that, you're just gonna have instant success. And it could also be called jumping on a grenade for the team. -Mark Grace
Love Mark Grace, especially when he was a Cub
 

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