The Impeachment Thread

#32,151
#32,151
Velo Vol said:
That's why there's a supposedly independent DOJ.
Click to expand...

Really? An agency that reports to nobody ... answers to nobody? An entity all alone ... how does it get funding, how is it measured in terms of staffing - the perfect infinite bureaucracy. Does it get it's own taxing authority? This is something out a Dumas novel and the French Revolution, Salem, Cromwell, or the Inquisition. If you mean that political or other outsiders cannot influence or direct investigations, fine; but just like the FBI, CIA, etc somebody that we elect has to be in control. You just may not like it that it's Trump just as many of us disliked that Obama could seemingly turn the IRS on people and entities he didn't like.

If we want better government, we need better politicians. To get better politicians then there has to be some real change in campaign funding, government ethics oversight/initiation, legislative process, term limits and follow on jobs, etc. If we constantly quibble over who can point the finger at corruption, none of that is happening.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NCFisher, NurseGoodVol and Orangeburst
#32,152
#32,152
Orangeburst said:
That is just subject to DOJ IG interviews correct? She will be compelled under Durham or a criminal investigation?
Click to expand...

I don't see how she could; the strategy appears to be pure gold. You can't discuss classified matters without a clearance, and I don't see how you can compel someone to accept a clearance. The only recourse is to make sure the person understands that there is never the opportunity for another security clearance and that he/she looses any possibility of turning that past experience into a career or income opportunity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orangeburst
#32,153
#32,153
So the order to withhold the aid came from the White House and just 45 minutes after the call.

I'm sure that's all just coincidence.
 
#32,155
#32,155
lawgator1 said:
So the order to withhold the aid came from the White House and just 45 minutes after the call.

I'm sure that's all just coincidence.
Click to expand...

A lot of questionable coincidental things happen in politics. Were you this concerned over the ones during the last administration? You know like IRS investigations, Bill and Loretta on the tarmac, lost and found servers without investigation, unwarranted warrants?
 
  • Like
Reactions: FallCreekVols, vols40, tbwhhs and 4 others
#32,157
#32,157
lawgator1 said:
So the order to withhold the aid came from the White House and just 45 minutes after the call.

I'm sure that's all just coincidence.
Click to expand...
Wait a minute. I thought y'all were saying that the aid was withheld before "the phone call?"

Multiple news outlets reported Monday night that Trump ordered millions of dollars in military aid for Ukraine be withheld just days before a July 25 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. -The Hill

However, in mid-July, a week before the conversation, Trump had instructed White House chief-of-staff Mick Mulvaney to withhold the aid package. The Ukrainians only learned of the decision in late August, according to Olena Zerkal, then acting foreign minister for Ukraine, who currently serves as deputy foreign minister. -National Review

President Trump told his acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, to hold back almost $400 million in military aid for Ukraine at least a week before a phone call in which Trump is said to have pressured the Ukrainian president to investigate the son of former vice president Joe Biden, according to three senior administration officials. Officials at the Office of Management and Budget relayed Trump’s order to the State Department and the Pentagon during an interagency meeting in mid-July, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. They explained that the president had “concerns” and wanted to analyze whether the money needed to be spent. -Washington Post

At least one week before President Trump spoke by phone with newly-elected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in late July, he instructed his acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, to hold off on releasing nearly $400 million in military aid for Ukraine that had already been appropriated by Congress, CBS News has confirmed. A senior administration official with direct knowledge of the Trump administration's actions regarding the funds confirmed the delay in military aid. -CBS News
 
  • Like
Reactions: NCFisher, DC_Vol, hjeagle1vol and 2 others
#32,158
#32,158
37L1 said:
Wait a minute. I thought y'all were saying that the aid was withheld before "the phone call?"

Multiple news outlets reported Monday night that Trump ordered millions of dollars in military aid for Ukraine be withheld just days before a July 25 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. -The Hill

However, in mid-July, a week before the conversation, Trump had instructed White House chief-of-staff Mick Mulvaney to withhold the aid package. The Ukrainians only learned of the decision in late August, according to Olena Zerkal, then acting foreign minister for Ukraine, who currently serves as deputy foreign minister. -National Review

President Trump told his acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, to hold back almost $400 million in military aid for Ukraine at least a week before a phone call in which Trump is said to have pressured the Ukrainian president to investigate the son of former vice president Joe Biden, according to three senior administration officials. Officials at the Office of Management and Budget relayed Trump’s order to the State Department and the Pentagon during an interagency meeting in mid-July, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. They explained that the president had “concerns” and wanted to analyze whether the money needed to be spent. -Washington Post

At least one week before President Trump spoke by phone with newly-elected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in late July, he instructed his acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, to hold off on releasing nearly $400 million in military aid for Ukraine that had already been appropriated by Congress, CBS News has confirmed. A senior administration official with direct knowledge of the Trump administration's actions regarding the funds confirmed the delay in military aid. -CBS News
Click to expand...
I don't see the contradiction.
The plan was put into place before before the phone call. The plan was put into action immediately following the phone call.
 
Last edited:
#32,160
#32,160
37L1 said:
Wait a minute. I thought y'all were saying that the aid was withheld before "the phone call?"

Multiple news outlets reported Monday night that Trump ordered millions of dollars in military aid for Ukraine be withheld just days before a July 25 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. -The Hill

However, in mid-July, a week before the conversation, Trump had instructed White House chief-of-staff Mick Mulvaney to withhold the aid package. The Ukrainians only learned of the decision in late August, according to Olena Zerkal, then acting foreign minister for Ukraine, who currently serves as deputy foreign minister. -National Review

President Trump told his acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, to hold back almost $400 million in military aid for Ukraine at least a week before a phone call in which Trump is said to have pressured the Ukrainian president to investigate the son of former vice president Joe Biden, according to three senior administration officials. Officials at the Office of Management and Budget relayed Trump’s order to the State Department and the Pentagon during an interagency meeting in mid-July, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. They explained that the president had “concerns” and wanted to analyze whether the money needed to be spent. -Washington Post

At least one week before President Trump spoke by phone with newly-elected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in late July, he instructed his acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, to hold off on releasing nearly $400 million in military aid for Ukraine that had already been appropriated by Congress, CBS News has confirmed. A senior administration official with direct knowledge of the Trump administration's actions regarding the funds confirmed the delay in military aid. -CBS News
Click to expand...


Right. Trump told Mulvaney of the plan right before the call, then had him execute it right after the call. Its blatantly obvious what was going on.
 
#32,164
#32,164
lawgator1 said:
Right. Trump told Mulvaney of the plan right before the call, then had him execute it right after the call. Its blatantly obvious what was going on.
Click to expand...
That's not what those news articles said. Read them again. "Days before", "At least a week before", not "right before the call,". "Instructed", "Ordered" "Told", tell me where is the word, "plan", used in any of those sources listed?

Not that words matter or anything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64
#32,171
#32,171
AM64 said:
A lot of questionable coincidental things happen in politics. Were you this concerned over the ones during the last administration? You know like IRS investigations, Bill and Loretta on the tarmac, lost and found servers without investigation, unwarranted warrants?
Click to expand...

They’re gonna utilize their right to remain silent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64
#32,174
#32,174
NCFisher said:
Policy is what the President decides with cabinet level members, via State Dept. It's a pretty simple concept; the policy of Obama isn't the same as Trump's, just as Obama's wasn't the same as Bush's, and his not the same as Clinton's. The bureaucrats get their marching orders, observe and implement any changes they're told. Or resign.

Can that be more plain?
Click to expand...
So, I'm to understand that Luther's argument is that foreign policy was designed in the Constitution to be a struggle between Congress and the executive branch, and Trump should have been impeach for struggling with Congress over foreign policy?
 
  • Like
Reactions: vols40, hjeagle1vol, BigOrangeD and 2 others
#32,175
#32,175
Orange_Crush said:
So, I'm to understand that Luther's argument is that foreign policy was designed in the Constitution to be a struggle between Congress and the executive branch, and Trump should have been impeach for struggling with Congress over foreign policy?
Click to expand...

I will jump in if you do not mind. Yes, but with a caveat. The bureaucracy has a say as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hjeagle1vol, NCFisher and AM64
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement

Back
Top