The Atlanta Braves

#64,527
#64,527
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Just like his previous 3 SB wins that were more on the defense than the offense, but yes, he's the goat :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
He is the GOAT, but it's because of Belichick. Belichick is the real GOAT.

The fact that "does Brady or Belichick have more to do with the Patriots dynasty" is even a debate is laughable to me.
 
#64,530
#64,530
05_never_again said:
Who is?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure. Peyton is better than him though, I know that. But my point is that superbowls do not determine who the best QB is. This isn't golf, its a team sport. If Seattle hands the ball off to Lynch, Brady loses that Super Bowl. He had nothing to do with that play. If the Falcons score 6 second half points instead of three, he loses that one also. He had nothing to do with keeping them from scoring. If his defense doesn't hold the Rams to 3 points last year, he doesn't win that one either. he didn't even throw a td pass. Really didn't do much of anything in that game. Championships in team sports do not determine the best individual player.
 
#64,531
#64,531
Bassmaster_Vol said:
I'm not sure. Peyton is better than him though, I know that. But my point is that superbowls do not determine who the best QB is. This isn't golf, its a team sport. If Seattle hands the ball off to Lynch Brady loses that Super Bowl. He had nothing to do with that play. If the Falcons score 6 second half points instead of three, he loses that one either. He had nothing to do with keeping them from scoring. If his defense doesn't hold the Rams to 3 points last year, he doesn't win that one either. he didn't even throw a td pass. Really didn't do much of anything in that game. Championships in team sports do not determine the best individual player.
Click to expand...
Brady's always had better coaching and a better defense. Much better than his contemporaries, most notably Peyton and Aaron Rodgers. I totally agree that he had nothing to do with multiple of the SBs that they've won.

Having said that, he has been the starting QB for 6 SB winning teams (9 total SB appearances) and is extremely high, if not #1, in a lot of the individual counting stats. I suppose you could say he's that high in the stats primarily because of longevity, but there's something to be said for that too.

Not as much later in his career (because I agree in more recent years he's had little, if any, to do with the Patriots quality play), but I don't think I've ever seen a player have a knack for making a play, or simply not making some big mistake, in a key situation. Outside of his first Super Bowl winning season, that's really not something you could say about Peyton.
 
#64,532
#64,532
05_never_again said:
Brady's always had better coaching and a better defense. Much better than his contemporaries, most notably Peyton and Aaron Rodgers. I totally agree that he had nothing to do with multiple of the SBs that they've won.

Having said that, he has been the starting QB for 6 SB winning teams (9 total SB appearances) and is extremely high, if not #1, in a lot of the individual counting stats. I suppose you could say he's that high in the stats primarily because of longevity, but there's something to be said for that too.

Not as much later in his career (because I agree in more recent years he's had little, if any, to do with the Patriots quality play), but I don't think I've ever seen a player have a knack for making a play, or simply not making some big mistake, in a key situation. Outside of his first Super Bowl winning season, that's really not something you could say about Peyton.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying he isn't good. He was great in his prime, no doubt. But I am saying that if you put Peyton, Rodgers, heck even Eli on those same Patriot teams they have just as many rings if not more. Peyton always had to overcome his crappy defense until the last year of his career. That's never been a problem for tom
 
#64,533
#64,533
Bassmaster_Vol said:
I'm not saying he isn't good. He was great in his prime, no doubt. But I am saying that if you put Peyton, Rodgers, heck even Eli on those same Patriot teams they have just as many rings if not more. Peyton always had to overcome his crappy defense until the last year of his career. That's never been a problem for tom
Click to expand...
Peyton also would have some head-scratching performances in big time games...multiple picks, just not operating at the same level during the regular season, etc.

Some, not all, of those unexpected first round exits were because Peyton laid an egg. Multiple losses in low-scoring games. A few of them were at home in that dome, where some external factor like weather was irrelevant. If memory serves, Peyton was 1-5 in games where he had a first round bye. I know it's a team game, but that's just astonishing to me.
 
#64,534
#64,534
05_never_again said:
Peyton also would have some head-scratching performances in big time games...multiple picks, just not operating at the same level during the regular season, etc.

Some, not all, of those unexpected first round exits were because Peyton laid an egg. Multiple losses in low-scoring games. A few of them were at home in that dome, where some external factor like weather was irrelevant. If memory serves, Peyton was 1-5 in games where he had a first round bye. I know it's a team game, but that's just astonishing to me.
Click to expand...
Again, this is a team sport. Brady could throw 3 interceptions in the first half of a Super Bowl and still win because of his team's defensive performance. Peyton could not do that.
 
#64,535
#64,535
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Again, this is a team sport. Brady could throw 3 interceptions in the first half of a Super Bowl and still win because of his team's defensive performance. Peyton could not do that.
Click to expand...
He could this year. Not in every year though. There have been other years where the Pats defense was OK and they leaned more on Brady and their offense. Particularly when Moss and a healthy Gronk were there. On balance, Brady has had much better defenses than Peyton ever did though. The only truly elite defense Peyton ever had was in his very last season, where they won that SB basically in spite of him.

Also to throw you a bone, the Pats have been the beneficiary of playing in an absolutely awful division and getting first-round byes/home field advantage throughout the playoffs almost every year. Over the course of a long season, that helps playing the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins for 37.5% of your games.
 
#64,537
#64,537
05_never_again said:
He could this year. Not in every year though. There have been other years where the Pats defense was OK and they leaned more on Brady and their offense. Particularly when Moss and a healthy Gronk were there. On balance, Brady has had much better defenses than Peyton ever did though. The only truly elite defense Peyton ever had was in his very last season, where they won that SB basically in spite of him.

Also to throw you a bone, the Pats have been the beneficiary of playing in an absolutely awful division and getting first-round byes/home field advantage throughout the playoffs almost every year. Over the course of a long season, that helps playing the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins for 37.5% of your games.
Click to expand...
Yes, Brady won his last SB the same way Peyton did. Brady also threw 3 int’s including a pick six in the first half of the Falcons SB. But they still won. Why? Not only because Brady played well in the second half, but because his defense held the falcons to three points. He could play sloppy and mediocre like he did there and even like he did in the first half against the Seahawks and still win because of elite defense. This is a team sport.

So whoever you think is the goat should not be determined on wins in a team sport like football. This isn’t even basketball where a player plays offense and defense and the near entirety of the game. The QB isn’t even on the field in 2 of the 3 phases of the game and has no impact at all on those phases.
 
#64,538
#64,538
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Yes, Brady won his last SB the same way Peyton did. Brady also threw 3 int’s including a pick six in the first half of the Falcons SB. But they still won. Why? Not only because Brady played well in the second half, but because his defense held the falcons to three points. He could play sloppy and mediocre like he did there and even like he did in the first half against the Seahawks and still win because of elite defense. This is a team sport.

So whoever you think is the goat should not be determined on wins in a team sport like football. This isn’t even basketball where a player plays offense and defense and the near entirety of the game. The QB isn’t even on the field in 2 of the 3 phases of the game and has no impact at all on those phases.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't quite go that far. As bad of a coach as Butch was, he said "complimentary football" all the time for a pretty good reason. I wouldn't say the offense, or even the QB in particular, has no impact on the defense.
 
#64,540
#64,540
IMO Brady is the third best QB of his generation. Give him the situation either Rodgers or Manning had to deal with and he sure as hell wouldn't have won any more than they did. He could drop dead tonight and the Patriots would still play in the AFC championship game this year, win 12+ games next year, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bassmaster_Vol
#64,541
#64,541
Vercingetorix said:
IMO Brady is the third best QB of his generation. Give him the situation either Rodgers or Manning had to deal with and he sure as hell wouldn't have won any more than they did. He could drop dead tonight and the Patriots would still play in the AFC championship game this year, win 12+ games next year, etc.
Click to expand...
I don’t know where this is coming from and do not want to wade into a Tom Brady debate but I have to point out that this post just simply isn’t true.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Florida Stanley
#64,542
#64,542
Vercingetorix said:
IMO Brady is the third best QB of his generation. Give him the situation either Rodgers or Manning had to deal with and he sure as hell wouldn't have won any more than they did. He could drop dead tonight and the Patriots would still play in the AFC championship game this year, win 12+ games next year, etc.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. One of the greatest proofs of this is what happened when he missed a year. They won 11 games. Peyton missed a year and the Colts won 2.
 
#64,544
#64,544
TBrown said:
I don’t know where this is coming from and do not want to wade into a Tom Brady debate but I have to point out that this post just simply isn’t true.
Click to expand...

How many ringzzz do you think Brady would have if he'd spent his whole career playing on half-built teams for a series of choads like Mike McCarthy and Jim Caldwell and Jim Mora?

If Brady vanished Belichick would just scoop some Tannehill-like replacement-level guy off the scrap heap this offseason and ride his system and the schedule to another first-round bye without missing a beat. I'm not saying Brady isn't a great QB, but playing for that coach in that division is the cushiest situation in the history of American sports.

Actually now that I think about it I'd have Brady 4th of relatively modern QBs. Forgot about Brees, who's probably pretty close to Brady but who's spent his whole career playing on a harder difficulty setting.
 
#64,547
#64,547
Vercingetorix said:
Hoping to make the trip this time. Had flights picked out a few years ago and was about to hit go, but something came up and it never ended up happening. Seems like it would have to be a fun trip.
Click to expand...
Most respectful fan base I’ve been around as an opposing team’s fan. Granted, that’s probably because we sucked ass at the time.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement





Back
Top