On field results lead to big recruits?

#53
#53
BigOrangeAl 1979 said:
Need a good RB and a couple of receivers
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We're going to be ok at WR this class I think. We've got a good chance at a JJ clone I feel. We will all know pretty soon but I think this class is going to finish strong and be 10-15 range. Luckily we won't need many in this coming class to be 1st year starters as our depth is improved from the last 2 years.
 
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#54
#54
Recruiting is just getting ramped up. There’ll be a lot of activity around early signing and a scramble for the remains until feb. - that’s when to analyze this class (even then you won’t know til they’ve been on campus for a few years).
 
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#55
#55
PulaskiVolFan said:
I don't know as it's tough to predict the future, but it's natural to compare his speed and size to past special players. He's definitely gonna be a productive player and I'm glad we've got him.
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There are lots of RB's that never had special size and speed laughing at you in their gold Jackets. Emmit Smith Says hi. So does Terell Davis and a long list of others. I won't even go down the list of great vols backs that didn't have "special" size or speed. For every one great guy without size and speed I can name you 10 busts who had it. Al Davis says hi also, see how drafting on combine measurements worked out for him?
 
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#58
#58
pimo1 said:
There are lots of RB's that never had special size and speed laughing at you in their gold Jackets. Emmit Smith Says hi. So does Terell Davis and a long list of others. I won't even go down the list of great vols backs that didn't have "special" size or speed. For every one great guy without size and speed I can name you 10 busts who had it. Al Davis says hi also, see how drafting on combine measurements worked out for him?
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Well stated. For example, Tony Thompson says 👍, while Bryce Brown says 👎.
 
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#60
#60
pimo1 said:
There are lots of RB's that never had special size and speed laughing at you in their gold Jackets. Emmit Smith Says hi. So does Terell Davis and a long list of others. I won't even go down the list of great vols backs that didn't have "special" size or speed. For every one great guy without size and speed I can name you 10 busts who had it. Al Davis says hi also, see how drafting on combine measurements worked out for him?
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I've got no problem with small slower backs but the odds, while not insurmountable, are not that good for him to be considered special I feel. He can always prove me wrong. My favorite guy on our All-Time list is Johnnie Jones who he most resembles size and speed wise and Jones was 5'10. The rest of those guys were "special" backs and he doesn't resemble any of them. Webb, Lewis, Garner, Cobb...those are the guys that were special, they were big, powerful, fast, strong, durable punishing runners.
 

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#61
#61
I have to agree with the OP on Butch’s recruiting. He was able to bring in back-to-back top 5 classes with the same hurdles Pruitt has (poor record by previous coach, no bowl game, etc). Butch proved to be an awful developer of talent but he still signed some terrific classes.

And before anybody says something about the recruiting services being wrong about the players Jones signed: those players were pursued by other big name schools. History shows the recruiting services are fairly accurate and class ranking is a pretty good indicator of future success. I know, Boise State and Appy State blah blah blah.

Pruitt came to us with a great recruiting pedigree. He just hasn’t generated the kind of classes I thought — so far. The sample size is large enough, though, to form some opinions. Hopefully winning will cure some of these issues. Winning seems to cure everything. 🙂
 
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#62
#62
PulaskiVolFan said:
I've got no problem with small slower backs but the odds, while not insurmountable, are not that good for him to be considered special I feel. He can always prove me wrong. My favorite guy on our All-Time list is Johnnie Jones who he most resembles size and speed wise and Jones was 5'10. The rest of those guys were "special" backs and he doesn't resemble any of them. Webb, Lewis, Garner, Cobb...those are the guys that were special, they were big, powerful, fast, strong, durable punishing runners.
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Webb and Garner were not big backs.

Gray is really shifty. He could be special. He needs to work on his blocking and pass catching to see the field more (heard that from one of the morning sports shows).
 
#63
#63
Mike4Vols said:
Webb and Garner were not big backs.

Gray is really shifty. He could be special. He needs to work on his blocking and pass catching to see the field more (heard that from one of the morning sports shows).
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Webb was one of the best blends of Speed and Power that we ever had I thought. Garner was shifty similar to Grey except for the fact that Garner was nearly impossible to tackle and ALWAYS fell forward. Those guys were legit 5'10+ and Grey is more 5'9 or less.
 
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#69
#69
PulaskiVolFan said:
I've got no problem with small slower backs but the odds, while not insurmountable, are not that good for him to be considered special I feel. He can always prove me wrong. My favorite guy on our All-Time list is Johnnie Jones who he most resembles size and speed wise and Jones was 5'10. The rest of those guys were "special" backs and he doesn't resemble any of them. Webb, Lewis, Garner, Cobb...those are the guys that were special, they were big, powerful, fast, strong, durable punishing runners.
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Gray is same height as Garner and if he's 195 as I saw listed, ten pounds larger. I remember Garner as quick and shifty, not particularly fast but great shake and bake. I'd be surprised if he was notably faster than Gray's 40/4.57.
 
#70
#70
NCFisher said:
Gray is same height as Garner and if he's 195 as I saw listed, ten pounds larger. I remember Garner as quick and shifty, not particularly fast but great shake and bake. I'd be surprised if he was notably faster than Gray's 40/4.57.
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I'd be surprised if he's anywhere close to 195. He gets one arm tackled more than any UT player I can remember.
 
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#71
#71
sjt18 said:
Couple of things I hope you will consider.

One, if I'm Pruitt I'm selling the improvements made in individual players. Come to UT and you are going to get coached up by the best staff in the business.

Two, UT has a history of getting the wrong 4/5* players. Guys who bust. Guys who were never that good to start with. Are you old enough to remember Chris Donald? He was a "prize" recruit that UT beat Notre Dame out for. Eventually he landed at UTC.... and couldn't become a full time starter there either. Contrast that to Warren Burrell who was a 3* who would have started ahead of A Taylor at CB if he hadn't gotten injured.

Unlike Jones and Dooley, Pruitt is a football coach and knows how to recognize football players. I am much less worried about "stars" with him choosing who to sign than I was with previous coaches.
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So why did Pruitt sign so many 4 and 5* prospects at Bama, UGA and FSU and why was his history of helping sign highly rated recruited classes touted as one of the primary reasons for hiring him in the first place?
 
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#72
#72
VolunteerHillbilly said:
So why did Pruitt sign so many 4 and 5* prospects at Bama, UGA and FSU and why was his history of helping sign highly rated recruited classes touted as one of the primary reasons for hiring him in the first place?
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Did I say anywhere that there were no talented 4/5* players? Most guys who earn those ratings have talent. But a lot who don't also have talent. A coach who knows how to find and recognize talent without the help of sports writers... are better than guys who recruit "stars".

That said, there is some "cause/effect" with UGA and Bama. They tend to find a lot of talented players... so recruiting services tend to rate their recruits higher.
 
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#73
#73
sjt18 said:
Did I say anywhere that there were no talented 4/5* players? Most guys who earn those ratings have talent. But a lot who don't also have talent. A coach who knows how to find and recognize talent without the help of sports writers... are better than guys who recruit "stars".

That said, there is some "cause/effect" with UGA and Bama. They tend to find a lot of talented players... so recruiting services tend to rate their recruits higher.
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So you're saying Pruitt's prior recruiting successes were a product of the school/system where he was located but now that he's here he is an expert at finding the hidden gems?
 
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#74
#74
VolunteerHillbilly said:
So you're saying Pruitt's prior recruiting successes were a product of the school/system where he was located but now that he's here he is an expert at finding the hidden gems?
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Are you really that obtuse? Are you really trying to equate "recruiting success" with the "star" system? Recruiting success is finding talented players then winning games with them.

The recruiting services when awarding "stars" pay attention to who is recruiting a player. The great recruiters pay very little attention to who the recruiting services give stars to. Programs with success in finding good players influence the recruiting sites to choose that player over another player who may be every bit as good. The recruiting sites arbitrarily set the number of 4* and 5* they award. In and of itself, that tells you it is NOT an objective process designed to accurately evaluate talented players. A reasonable % of the players they give 4/5* to are talented players that make an impact in college. But for every one of those guys they find... they miss 1 or 2 or 3 others who become just as good at the same position.


Now. Read slowly. Great coaches and talent evaluators find talented players without relying on the consumer recruiting sites' opinions of them. That ability is NOT dependent on recruiting site "stars". Pruitt apparently had an eye for talent before. Hopefully he has an eye now. In NO WAY is that dependent on whether a kid has 4/5* beside their name or not.
 
#75
#75
sjt18 said:
Are you really that obtuse? Are you really trying to equate "recruiting success" with the "star" system? Recruiting success is finding talented players then winning games with them.

The recruiting services when awarding "stars" pay attention to who is recruiting a player. The great recruiters pay very little attention to who the recruiting services give stars to. Programs with success in finding good players influence the recruiting sites to choose that player over another player who may be every bit as good. The recruiting sites arbitrarily set the number of 4* and 5* they award. In and of itself, that tells you it is NOT an objective process designed to accurately evaluate talented players. A reasonable % of the players they give 4/5* to are talented players that make an impact in college. But for every one of those guys they find... they miss 1 or 2 or 3 others who become just as good at the same position.


Now. Read slowly. Great coaches and talent evaluators find talented players without relying on the consumer recruiting sites' opinions of them. That ability is NOT dependent on recruiting site "stars". Pruitt apparently had an eye for talent before. Hopefully he has an eye now. In NO WAY is that dependent on whether a kid has 4/5* beside their name or not.
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I read it slowly and have a follow up. Since Pruitt is apparently a savant at identifying talent, and the services all chase the offers made by the expert evaluators, why does it seem that we've had more guys drop in recruiting rankings after committing to the Vols instead of getting a Pruitt bump?
 
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