Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

[SLICKYINC]

well I guess that is saying something.

Youth movement.

 

[Dooby15]

Are they? Seems like the Cali schools would be in the pickle. Even if the state says they can pay players, the NCAA doesn't, so they couldn't pay players and remain in the NCAA. So who are they going to play? Each other? That would be a very short season, with no profit. It doesn't really matter what the state allows if it's against NCAA by-laws. They can avoid legal penalties, but not NCAA penalties.

This

 

[Kingston Vol]

All the top recruits in the nation would end up at a handful of schools. Take Oregon alone. Phil Knight would have all of those kids signed up to endorse Nike. The system as is, is not perfect, but it prevents wholesale buying of players. Take that away and schools like UT, where we know our boosters can be relatively cheap(look at our coaching hires) would never compete.

If we don’t want to compensate players to their market value then we SHOULDNT be able to compete. This is the market correcting itself.

 

[jakez4ut]

Players make teams competitive. If the University of Texas loses players at a rate high enough to affect its wins and losses they will make a change.

USC and UCLA are already competing with the schools you mentioned for TV time. The NCAA doesn’t negotiate those deals - the conferences do.

If California passes this bill, then Texas will do the same. And if the NCAA doesn’t cave immediately then California schools can play each other - then play Texas schools. Then Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, etc. will all want in.

The NCAA is going to cave on this issue.

i'll believe it when i see it. for the conferences and schools here, and really all of the P5 conferences, except i guess the Pac 12, they have the perfect system in place for them, right now.

if CA wants to secede, let 'em. your kids in GA, FL, Bama, and all over the south are going to go to CA just to have the opportunity to make a couple bucks of a jersey sale? oh and by the way, you're NEVER going to leave the state of CA to play a game?

there's zero reason to cave. until there is.

and to me, the only way that would happen is if all of the power 5 conferences got together and formed their own association and just said "we're out".

and i don't see that happening any time soon either.

anyway. i think the name/likeness issue is a fixable one.............and not a whole lot has to change to do so.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

FBS (7 Teams):
California Golden Bears
Fresno State Bulldogs
San Diego State Aztecs
San Jose State Spartans
Stanford Cardinal
UCLA Bruins
USC Trojans

FCS (4 Teams):
Cal Poly Mustangs
Sacramento State Hornets
San Diego Toreros
UC Davis Aggies


Not a bad league for the CCAA...

 

[Kingston Vol]

i'll believe it when i see it. for the conferences and schools here, and really all of the P5 conferences, except i guess the Pac 12, they have the perfect system in place for them, right now.

if CA wants to secede, let 'em. your kids in GA, FL, Bama, and all over the south are going to go to CA just to have the opportunity to make a couple bucks of a jersey sale? oh and by the way, you're NEVER going to leave the state of CA to play a game?

there's zero reason to cave. until there is.

and to me, the only way that would happen is if all of the power 5 conferences got together and formed their own association and just said "we're out".

and i don't see that happening any time soon either.

anyway. i think the name/likeness issue is a fixable one.............and not a whole lot has to change to do so.

Well this is ultimately the biggest point. California is just trying to pressure the NCAA to pass this rule for all student athletes that they already have in place for athletes in the Olympic sports.

It’s ultimately a question of “rights” and “freedoms” of adult men and women in this country. Should every person have the right to profit off his or her name? Or should we allow that to be stifled because we like watching college football on Saturdays?

 

[MoCo_Vol]

All the top recruits in the nation would end up at a handful of schools. Take Oregon alone. Phil Knight would have all of those kids signed up to endorse Nike. The system as is, is not perfect, but it prevents wholesale buying of players. Take that away and schools like UT, where we know our boosters can be relatively cheap(look at our coaching hires) would never compete.

They already do though...what are you smoking?

 

[bignewt]

FBS (7 Teams):
California Golden Bears
Fresno State Bulldogs
San Diego State Aztecs
San Jose State Spartans
Stanford Cardinal
UCLA Bruins
USC Trojans

FCS (4 Teams):
Cal Poly Mustangs
Sacramento State Hornets
San Diego Toreros
UC Davis Aggies


Not a bad league for the CCAA...

Rather watch static.

 

[RikidyBones]

Players make teams competitive. If the University of Texas loses players at a rate high enough to affect its wins and losses they will make a change.

USC and UCLA are already competing with the schools you mentioned for TV time. The NCAA doesn’t negotiate those deals - the conferences do.

If California passes this bill, then Texas will do the same. And if the NCAA doesn’t cave immediately then California schools can play each other - then play Texas schools. Then Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, etc. will all want in.

The NCAA is going to cave on this issue.

In your scenario, CA will be on it's own for multiple years.

1. CA schools will all have to leave their conferences as they are all members with schools not in CA. Loss of money for buyouts
2. They will be liable for TV deal contract fines. Loss of money
3. They will have to create their league and then get a new TV deal that covers only CA teams which is less viewership, less ad revenue for the network which is less revenue for the tv deal for CA schools.

They will lose millions.

When they can play Texas, Florida, Alabama schools, then and only then will the viewership compete with the current TV deals but it will take time and they will lose money just to have to compete with the same schools anyways. There is ZERO benefit for USC or UCLA. None. The only ones it would benefit are the football players while CA schools lose millions and they arent the ones making the decision to leave the ncaa. The ones losing millions are making that decision.

So leave the ncaa and lose millions without any financial advantage in the future
or
Stay and make the money you're making as a school.

Hmm... this isnt hard. at all.

 

[Kingston Vol]

In your scenario, CA will be on it's own for multiple years.

1. CA schools will all have to leave their conferences as they are all members with schools not in CA. Loss of money for buyouts
2. They will be liable for TV deal contract fines. Loss of money
3. They will have to create their league and then get a new TV deal that covers only CA teams which is less viewership, less ad revenue for the network which is less revenue for the tv deal for CA schools.

They will lose millions.

When they can play Texas, Florida, Alabama schools, then and only then will the viewership compete with the current TV deals but it will take time and they will lose money just to have to compete with the same schools anyways. There is ZERO benefit for USC or UCLA. None. The only ones it would benefit are the football players while CA schools lose millions and they arent the ones making the decision to leave the ncaa. The ones losing millions are making that decision.

So leave the ncaa and lose millions without any financial advantage in the future
or
Stay and make the money you're making as a school.

Hmm... this isnt hard. at all.

You do realize they’ve already passed the bill, right? (Pending signature from the governor and that is supposedly a formality.) So while you can argue til you’re blue in the face that it’ll “never happen,” well, it already has.

 

[Weezer]

They’d lose a year or two, tops. There are enough teams in California to have a pretty good 12 game schedule regardless. And it’ll only get better when a team like Fresno State can go into Texas, Nevada and Arizona and poach players because they now have an advantage over all those in state schools.

Yeah, I disagree with Cali having enough schools to pull this off, but that aside, doing something like this, why not just make it possible to jump straight to the NFL? Maybe the NFL should just consider a minor league and eliminate the colleges all together? When teams just cannot compete, fans will lose interest and many college programs will die. Think of our own situation. Fans keep coming back because they still have some hope we will recover from this death spiral through recruiting. When you know you cannot compete with other schools, where is the fan incentive to continue support? No fans equals no money equals no program. How anyone can think this is good for CFB is beyond me.

 

[RikidyBones]

FBS (7 Teams):
California Golden Bears
Fresno State Bulldogs
San Diego State Aztecs
San Jose State Spartans
Stanford Cardinal
UCLA Bruins
USC Trojans

FCS (4 Teams):
Cal Poly Mustangs
Sacramento State Hornets
San Diego Toreros
UC Davis Aggies


Not a bad league for the CCAA...

Not bad? that's trash.

 

[RikidyBones]

You do realize they’ve already passed the bill, right? (Pending signature from the governor and that is supposedly a formality.) So while you can argue til you’re blue in the face that it’ll “never happen,” well, it already has.

CA schools would have to leave the ncaa first. They will reject this.

 

[butchna]

I really don’t think so. We know top players get paid by the school and by boosters already. There will be very little additional capital spent on this.

What happens when 25 of the top 30 Texas recruits sign with USC and UCLA? The Texas Board of Regents get together and get a similar bill passed by midnight the same night.

That’s 25 California athletes displaced and 25 Texas recruits not getting play in their home state. Not sustainable and Texas isn’t a state that subscribes to labor movements. Try to join a union down here.

 

[Weezer]

If we don’t want to compensate players to their market value then we SHOULDNT be able to compete. This is the market correcting itself.

College isn't a market place. That's where the argument truly loses itself. These are student athletes. They're supposed to be there for education. Why even go to class if you can have a career playing college ball? This isn't big business we're talking about. It's freaking school.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Yeah, I disagree with Cali having enough schools to pull this off, but that aside, doing something like this, why not just make it possible to jump straight to the NFL? Maybe the NFL should just consider a minor league and eliminate the colleges all together? When teams just cannot compete, fans will lose interest and many college programs will die. Think of our own situation. Fans keep coming back because they still have some hope we will recover from this death spiral through recruiting. When you know you cannot compete with other schools, where is the fan incentive to continue support? No fans equals no money equals no program. How anyone can think this is good for CFB is beyond me.

Maybe that’s where you and I differ - I don’t care about “college football” - I care about the workforce being adequately compensated for its time and labor.

The system is corrupt and needs to be corrected.

 

[Weezer]

They already do though...what are you smoking?

No, they don't. Certainly, some schools get more than their fair share, but it's not down to a handful of schools getting all the players.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Yeah, I disagree with Cali having enough schools to pull this off, but that aside, doing something like this, why not just make it possible to jump straight to the NFL? Maybe the NFL should just consider a minor league and eliminate the colleges all together? When teams just cannot compete, fans will lose interest and many college programs will die. Think of our own situation. Fans keep coming back because they still have some hope we will recover from this death spiral through recruiting. When you know you cannot compete with other schools, where is the fan incentive to continue support? No fans equals no money equals no program. How anyone can think this is good for CFB is beyond me.

What about the fact California is the 5th largest economy in the world (yeah WORLD, not country)? Sports = money, it's one of the best investments in the world. It's why 19 teams professionally are in California, ya'll can have whatever opinions you want on the "quality" of the product, but if any state wanted to pull out of the NCAA this is it.

 

[Neyland Law Vol]

Guys you’re wasting your time on this California state law. It is meaningless because of interstate commerce clause. Even if they keep all their games and broadcasts in state it still violates the commerce clause because it has impacts in other states. Clearly won’t ever be enforceable so don’t waste your time thinking about it. Would take the US Congress to pass something like this to have any real impact.

And if you doubt me on this, google the 1942 case Wickard v Filburn.

 

[Weezer]

Maybe that’s where you and I differ - I don’t care about “college football” - I care about the workforce being adequately compensated for its time and labor.

The system is corrupt and needs to be corrected.

This isn't the workforce. It's college.

 

[RockyTopInBham]

Guys you’re wasting your time on this California state law. It is meaningless because of interstate commerce clause. Even if they keep all their games and broadcasts in state it still violates the commerce clause because it has impacts in other states. Clearly won’t ever be enforceable so don’t waste your time thinking about it. Would take the US Congress to pass something like this to have any real impact

 

[RikidyBones]

What about the fact California is the 5th largest economy in the world (yeah WORLD, not country)? Sports = money, it's one of the best investments in the world. It's why 19 teams professionally are in California, ya'll can have whatever opinions you want on the "quality" of the product, but if any state wanted to pull out of the NCAA this is it.

That's why the Pac12 is struggling with viewership and their own TV deals. Yeah let's make revenue worse by making the region smaller so the players can make all this money but the schools lose millions. lolololololol

 

[SoilVol]

Banks knows that with the improved run blocking he can be a major factor at RB as long as he can hold on to the ball. He is definitely our short yardage guy.

If I am Pruitt why not make him play both ways? It’s not like he is in every play as a LB. When you need some tough yards throw Banks in there at RB.

But like Pruitt said if Banks isn’t happy about playing LB and thinks his future is at RB, let him play the position he wants and he is either a bust or not at the position. If he is then you just move him back and tell him you gave him his shot.

And it wouldn't be a gimmick for the opposing D if he comes in at RB. He's a better pass blocker than Ty and Gray. I don't see why he couldn't feasibly play on both sides of the ball in a single game.

 

[Kingston Vol]

College isn't a market place. That's where the argument truly loses itself. These are student athletes. They're supposed to be there for education. Why even go to class if you can have a career playing college ball? This isn't big business we're talking about. It's freaking school.

Do these schools spend so much money on athletics because they love having future alumni or is it because people spend a lot of money to watch football? In the words of Cardale Jones, “we ain’t come here to play school.”

We can have a conversation about why the United States has “amateur athletics” in the first place and why those athletics are tied to higher education institutions. If you think about it, it’s truly a weird system we’ve built that has no real comparison across the country.

Take England and Spain for example - soccer is the dominant sport, obviously, in those countries. If you have a kid - say he’s 10 - who looks to be a promising athlete - those clubs sign him to a youth deal, pay him to practice and retain his rights, and put him through school up until his 18th birthday. That’s the standard - not our system.

 

[RikidyBones]

Guys you’re wasting your time on this California state law. It is meaningless because of interstate commerce clause. Even if they keep all their games and broadcasts in state it still violates the commerce clause because it has impacts in other states. Clearly won’t ever be enforceable so don’t waste your time thinking about it. Would take the US Congress to pass something like this to have any real impact.

And if you doubt me on this, google the 1942 case Wickard v Filburn.

Well that ends that then. Shame, I wanted to see the State of California fail... again.