SEC Records since expansion

I don’t think Kiffin was that big of the problem. Was he even here a full 12 months? We haven’t won a championship in over 20 years. The sudden departure hurt, but we hire Kippy as interim and then a decent coach the following year we are fine. Or maybe we hire Kevin Sumlin. He’d have probably fared pretty well in the East division. He was a good recruiter and wouldn’t have left the cupboard bare like Dooley.

The Butch Jones hire was the really bad one, though. Had basically an entire year to prepare for it and it seemed like all Hart did was focus on getting his buddies raises and hiring Charlie Strong.
 
Fulmer with Cutcliffe----and Fulmer sans Cutcliffe..... that's how you have to look at it to get the picture.

Having said that---I will be man enough to admit that I was WRONG for wanting Fulmer fired all those years ago.

I don't believe that he could have possibly done WORSE than the 3 stooges we hired before CJP.

I can't believe you folded like a cheap suit. Hindsight is a magnificent thing.

This would have never, I repeat never been mentioned if Kiffin had stayed and had us in the SEC championship game in 10 or 11. Or 5 or 6 other scenarios other than the 5 or 6 actual events. Pfft.

Talking about beating a dead horse.
 
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I can't believe you folded like a cheap suit. Hindsight is a magnificent thing.

This would have never, I repeat never been mentioned if Kiffin had stayed and had us in the SEC championship game in 10 or 11. Or 5 or 6 other scenarios other than the 5 or 6 actual events. Pfft.

Talking about beating a dead horse.
ding, ding, ding.
 
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For Tennessee fans, there’s always an excuse. And inevitably those problems will be fixed next year. We need to stop and seriously lower our expectations. Tennessee is the second worst team in the SEC and that probably won’t change in 2019.

I hope I’m wrong about 2019. But the best predictor of the immediate future is the immediate past.
Well I feel better now
 
I’ll just put this out there. Thank goodness for Dobbs. His pure athleticism, intellect, and play making ability kept us nationally relevant for 2 years despite incompetent coaching. Dobbs alone accounted for most of those wins and without him, he would have been much worse off I’m afraid. I would be remiss not to mention Derek Barnett as well, boy he was a BULL. We have had some good times during this valley.
 
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I’ll just put this out there. Thank goodness for Dobbs. His pure athleticism, intellect, and play making ability kept us nationally relevant for 2 years despite incompetent coaching. Dobbs alone accounted for most of those wins and without him, he would have been much worse off I’m afraid. I would be remiss not to mention Derek Barnett as well, boy he was a BULL. We have had some good times during this valley.
if there was no Dobbs, i doubt Butch jones even gets to 2016. so it's a "good news/bad news" situation lol.....
 
I’ll just put this out there. Thank goodness for Dobbs. His pure athleticism, intellect, and play making ability kept us nationally relevant for 2 years despite incompetent coaching. Dobbs alone accounted for most of those wins and without him, he would have been much worse off I’m afraid. I would be remiss not to mention Derek Barnett as well, boy he was a BULL. We have had some good times during this valley.

Another gift from hindsight. It's crazy to remember how many detractors he had on this very board DURING those 2 and a half years. Now we look back on him as pretty much the only positive thing from the Butch Jones era, and likely the only reason he lasted 5 years.
 
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not me lol.....
Haha, well with some things I agree, but this is different. IMO anyway.

I see others saying they never wanted him and was glad he left because "he would have had us under all kinds of NCAA sanctions". Nobody knows that, just like nobody knew what was around the corner from firing Phil. Hell, if @PulaskiVolFan had a choice to keep Kiffin, go to Atlanta in 10, go to Atlanta in 11 and win it, then win it again in 14 and play in tbe NC... OR go the route we went, what's he gonna do? How the F is that any different? It's not. Lol.

Polish that Turd Pulaski. Haha.
 
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How many SECs and Nattys do you have during that span? Exactly. Don’t even matter how average you were. Without rings, you might as well be us. Y’all were world beaters back when you had the murderers, rapists, and such

No SEC’s or Nattys during that time, but somehow McElwain did win the SEC east twice, and Muschamp had a team that went 11-1 and was closer to playing for a national title than many realize.

Spurrier dominated for a decade and never had murderers and rapists, and Muschamp’s 2012 team never had that, but run with whatever fits your narrative.
 
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Haha, well with some things I agree, but this is different. IMO anyway.

I see others saying they never wanted him and was glad he left because "he would have had us under all kinds of NCAA sanctions". Nobody knows that, just like nobody knew what was around the corner from firing Phil. Hell, if @PulaskiVolFan had a choice to keep Kiffin, go to Atlanta in 10, go to Atlanta in 11 and win it, then win it again in 14 and play in tbe NC... OR go the route we went, what's he gonna do? How the F is that any different? It's not. Lol.

Polish that Turd Pulaski. Haha.
agreed.
 
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Haha, well with some things I agree, but this is different. IMO anyway.

I see others saying they never wanted him and was glad he left because "he would have had us under all kinds of NCAA sanctions". Nobody knows that, just like nobody knew what was around the corner from firing Phil. Hell, if @PulaskiVolFan had a choice to keep Kiffin, go to Atlanta in 10, go to Atlanta in 11 and win it, then win it again in 14 and play in tbe NC... OR go the route we went, what's he gonna do? How the F is that any different? It's not. Lol.

Polish that Turd Pulaski. Haha.
Nobody knows anything when it comes "ifs", all I know is Kiffin *didn't do any of those great things.

I wasn't comfortable with Hamilton being the one in charge of firing Phil and hiring his replacement and I wasn't comfortable with Kiffin.

Maybe that even puts me in the stupid category but given how it all turned out, I don't feel that way.
 
so you're saying you believe they thought this would happen? lol.

no one that wanted Fulmer fired 12 years ago thought what happened would happen....and it certainly wasn't the plan.

and neither did you or anyone else that wanted him retained.

but nice 12 year old "told ya so".........lol.

That was always a risk, don’t play dumb. Anytime you fire a great coach or they move on there is always a significant risk of a decline.
 
You are CLUELESS with NO FACTS! The FACT that you said fans ran Cutcliffe off SHOWS YOUR IGNORANCE! UT hired the wrong HC in the first place. FULMER was riding CUTCLIFFE's success! Had Cutcliffe been promoted to HC and Fulmer let go. Eli Manning comes to UT instead of Ole Miss and UT would have probably been one of the winningest teams in the SEC the last decade with CDC as HC!!! Fulmer was NEVER A GREAT OFFENSIVE MIND!!! Nothing proved it more than when Fulmer hired Dave Clawson and was so excited with David Clawson before the 2008 season. 2008 was the worse offense UT had in 30 years!!! Fulmer was always the HC that was a very good recruiter and had all the donors in his back pocket, nothing more. Cutcliffe and Chavis were the GREAT COACHES on the staff during Fulmer's tenure, NOT FULMER.

Fulmer was the OC under Majors boy wonder and Clawson has turned into a good head coach.
 
That was always a risk, don’t play dumb. Anytime you fire a great coach or they move on there is always a significant risk of a decline.
so? what's your point?

cause that's not how it was being portrayed here. it's being portrayed here as if we have a bunch of clarvoyants (sp?) here ready to collect on their "told ya so's" a decade later.

it's just a dumb thing to keep hashing out. especially when things finally seem to be at least pointed in the right direction again.
 
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No offense, I enjoy talking to all you guys regularly, but the "nobody would be saying firing Fulmer was a mistake if things hadn't gotten much worse after we fired him" argument is not very compelling. It's not like there weren't A LOT of people in the fanbase saying it was a mistake at the time it happened and making essentially the same arguments about the difficulty of finding a comparable replacement.
 
No offense, I enjoy talking to all you guys regularly, but the "nobody would be saying firing Fulmer was a mistake if things hadn't gotten much worse after we fired him" argument is not very compelling. It's not like there weren't A LOT of people in the fanbase saying it was a mistake at the time it happened and making essentially the same arguments about the difficulty of finding a comparable replacement.

What would you consider a comparable replacement? What would he have to achieve?
 
Another gift from hindsight. It's crazy to remember how many detractors he had on this very board DURING those 2 and a half years. Now we look back on him as pretty much the only positive thing from the Butch Jones era, and likely the only reason he lasted 5 years.
Dobbs was somehow underappreciated and overrated at the same time.

In 2015 and 2016, a lot of people on here thought he was, or was on the cusp of, being something like a top 10 QB in the country. Or one of the best QBs ever to play at Tennessee. He was never at that level - he never truly developed as a downfield passer, and he wasn't great at reading the DE on the read option or on designed run plays. Handed the ball off a lot when he should have kept it himself, and vice versa. Admittedly, I think a lot of that was a lack of coaching. He was always at his best as an improvised scrambler, something that can't be taught, and I don't think that's a coincidence. The best play in Butch's playbook was Dobbs scrambling for a first down on 3rd down after the play had failed to develop.

Having said that, he covered up so many deficiencies on the offense it made your head spin. There's no way in hell we approach 9 wins in 2015 or 2016 without him. And everyone saw what happened after he left. I think we all, even the biggest Negavols here, underestimated the degree to which Dobbs made that offense go.
 
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so? what's your point?

cause that's not how it was being portrayed here. it's being portrayed here as if we have a bunch of clarvoyants (sp?) here ready to collect on their "told ya so's" a decade later.

it's just a dumb thing to keep hashing out. especially when things finally seem to be at least pointed in the right direction again.
I always thought it was no coincidence that the program was in such positive shape while Dickey and Fulmer were together.. and in decline with Hamilton taking over in the other role. Simply looking at the whole picture made me feel he was a larger part of the issue.

Would have rather seen Mike replaced and observed the results first. Absolutely didn't want him hiring a HC after the results of his interference with the OC position.

Expected negatives based solely on the information at hand, would even go as far as to say "likely".

Kiffin's desire for USC south and their overall inability to adjust to non "big city life" suggested he would jump if given the chance, imo. Personally believe he would've even taken UCLA or Miami etc.. if the money was there also. Was surprised it happened after 1 season, I figured after year 2. Once again, all based solely on information at hand.

I have zero issues fully admitting that I know absolutely nothing of clairvoyance. I'm still surprised how long it takes to find my keys, so I can assure you, delusions of second sight has no bearing.
 
What would you consider a comparable replacement? What would he have to achieve?

The only people in the game, at the time we fired Fulmer, who would have been sure fire upgrades, would have been Saban or Meyer. The fact is that the replacements aren't comparable. Fulmer without Cutcliffe had a .670 winning percentage, his replacements are at .496.
 
Nobody knows anything when it comes "ifs", all I know is Kiffin *didn't do any of those great things.

I wasn't comfortable with Hamilton being the one in charge of firing Phil and hiring his replacement and I wasn't comfortable with Kiffin.

Maybe that even puts me in the stupid category but given how it all turned out, I don't feel that way.

Haha, no, I think there's some misunderstanding going on here and to be honest I don't care enough about it to explain. I'm fine with saying I'm wrong. The End.
 
Haha, no, I think there's some misunderstanding going on here and to be honest I don't care enough about it to explain. I'm fine with saying I'm wrong. The End.
Nah, I got you. Even tried to post without making it seem like I didn't and yet still share my personal opinion. Sometimes that's harder than it should be though haha, I'm sure you've been there.
 
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