2020 Presidential Race

#5,527
#5,527
LouderVol said:
T
THey are in debt too. British healthcare is unfunded. It's not a magical wand.

It just pushes personal problems to national problems.
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Look up health care expenditures per capita, and tell me where we rank in the OECD. And no, it’s not because we are just lazy or unhealthy.
 
#5,528
#5,528
BowlBrother85 said:
Of course, and I see nothing wrong with them myself, but it is a form of socialism and Trump is definitely engaged in it. I'm just pointing out that "socialism" is not the root of all evil and that we are already an even mix of socialism and capitalism. I don't understand why Trump supporters are so triggered by the word. They clearly don't understand (or are not aware) that Trump's continued farming subsidies are a form of socialism - and he is doing it to counter the impact of a trade war that he started. It's ridiculous.
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Are the subsidies taken by farmers included in taxable income for the farmer?
 
#5,529
#5,529
tvolsfan said:
Look up health care expenditures per capita, and tell me where we rank in the OECD. And no, it’s not because we are just lazy or unhealthy.
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I agree it's not JUST because we are fat and lazy but you cant ignore that aspect.

The expenditure you speak of is their out of pocket to the doctor. Doesnt account for the taxes and subsidies from the government.
 
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#5,530
#5,530
Stew Cook said:
A public messsage board etc. is cached by Google bots and the like. An email server is not. The whole idea that things can't be erased from the internet is ridiculous in the first place.. It's all dependent upon where and how the data is stored, who has access to the data, and how it is cached when it accessed.
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Yes, dear........I'm agreeing with you. I was giggling at the post you responded to.
 
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#5,532
#5,532
To be clear, I’m not really a leftist and would probably be center right in most European countries. I certainly don’t think France should be our model for economic development. I just think we let our politicians scare us with silly buzzwords so they can get out of fixing actual issues. There are legitimate ways to reduce poverty and improve education. At some point, drastic inequality weakens a country.
 
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#5,533
#5,533
LouderVol said:
I agree it's not JUST because we are fat and lazy but you cant ignore that aspect.

The expenditure you speak of is their out of pocket to the doctor. Doesnt account for the taxes and subsidies from the government.
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It’s total health care spending.
 
#5,534
#5,534
BowlBrother85 said:
Yes! He has to win Iowa and his tariffs have hurt their farmers... but it has to be acknowledged that this is a form of socialism, which he rants against in every speech and his supporters eat it up (because they either don't know what the hell socialism is, or they don't pay attention to the news and know about the farm subsidies). McDad doesn't think we should hold Trump supporters in contempt? How is it possible to not think of the people at Trump rallies who applaud his rants against socialism as being ignorant? They don't know what they are applauding or realize that he has engaged in socialism himself.
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And of course many of them went to school, at least through the 6th grade. Socialism.

They got there in cars, driven on the roads. Socialism.

They are counting on Social Security and Medicare. Socialism.
 
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#5,535
#5,535
lawgator1 said:
And of course many of them went to school, at least through the 6th grade. Socialism.

They got there in cars, driven on the roads. Socialism.

They are counting on Social Security and Medicare. Socialism.
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The same public school system that suck and teachers go on strike all the time?
The same roads that to be sufficient have to have additional taxes in tolls?
The same SS and Medicare that every few years goes thru insolvency concerns?
 
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#5,538
#5,538
Orangeburst65 said:
The same public school system that suck and teachers go on strike all the time?
The same roads that to be sufficient have to have additional taxes in tolls?
The same SS and Medicare that every few years goes thru insolvency concerns?
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Private schools routinely suck. And those that are decent regular kids and their families can't afford. So is an education something to be granted to the wealthiest only? Man, you must really long for the good old days, around about 1400. Watch out for the plague, though. Pretty nasty.

As far as roads are concerned, your point is taken. But in case you had not noticed, Trump wants to increase government spending on infrastructure. So, you know, oops.

As to SS and Medicare, what shall we do about those programs? End them? Curtail benefits? If the latter, its just a question of degree. Seems to me though that the boogeyman of "socialism" cannot be tolerated at all, right? So no shades of gray.
 
#5,540
#5,540
lawgator1 said:
And of course many of them went to school, at least through the 6th grade. Socialism.

They got there in cars, driven on the roads. Socialism.

They are counting on Social Security and Medicare. Socialism.
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10 of the 11 poorest states in our country are "red" states. It's safe to say that some of those people at Trump rallies have probably been on some form of a special supplemental program such as food stamps, women - infant - children vouchers, welfare or collected unemployment at some point in their life or even lived in public housing. And yet, they're opposed to socialism? Yeah, okay.
 
#5,541
#5,541
BowlBrother85 said:
10 of the 11 poorest states in our country are "red" states. It's safe to say that some of those people at Trump rallies have probably been on some form of a special supplemental program such as food stamps, women - infant - children vouchers, welfare or collected unemployment at some point in their life or even lived in public housing. And yet, they're opposed to socialism? Yeah, okay.
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Still changing those hearts and minds of hard working Americans daily.
 
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#5,543
#5,543
tvolsfan said:
“How can we figure out what numerous other countries have figured out?”
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I don't know if I am missing something in your reply since it is in quotes. Also, don't know how this answers my question is there anything else you would like offer as an offset to the expanded spending on social programs.

By the way, I applaud a huge reduction in the military budget in principle.
 
#5,544
#5,544
LouderVol said:
Not it's not. Average income tax for Americans 14%, amount paid not tax rate. Same rate for Europeans? 34%.

Idk about you but if we started spending 20% on healthcare and other socialized programs that would be a huge hit to me at the end of the day. Right now my health care costs are 7%, up from 3% of a much smaller number thanks to ACA.

It doesnt make it cheaper it just moves the dollars around to make people feel better about the money they are spending.
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Excellent point.
 
#5,545
#5,545
BowlBrother85 said:
Yes! He has to win Iowa and his tariffs have hurt their farmers... but it has to be acknowledged that this is a form of socialism, which he rants against in every speech and his supporters eat it up (because they either don't know what the hell socialism is, or they don't pay attention to the news and know about the farm subsidies). McDad doesn't think we should hold Trump supporters in contempt? How is it possible to not think of the people at Trump rallies who applaud his rants against socialism as being ignorant? They don't know what they are applauding or realize that he has engaged in socialism himself.
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Good God! Get ahold of yourself, man!
 
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#5,546
#5,546
LouderVol said:
I agree it's not JUST because we are fat and lazy but you cant ignore that aspect.

The expenditure you speak of is their out of pocket to the doctor. Doesnt account for the taxes and subsidies from the government.
Click to expand...

Is this correct? I thought it was total expenditure.

Still it isn't an apples to apples comparison.
 
#5,547
#5,547
tvolsfan said:
To be clear, I’m not really a leftist and would probably be center right in most European countries. I certainly don’t think France should be our model for economic development. I just think we let our politicians scare us with silly buzzwords so they can get out of fixing actual issues. There are legitimate ways to reduce poverty and improve education. At some point, drastic inequality weakens a country.
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"Socialism" shouldn't be a silly buzzword but in Trumpland it is. I also don't think that the average Trump voter would know an MS-13 gang member from their pizza delivery boy but that doesn't keep them from soiling themselves when Trump says "MS 13!". Trump uses fear mongering... and his supporters lap it up.
 
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#5,550
#5,550
lawgator1 said:
Private schools routinely suck. And those that are decent regular kids and their families can't afford. So is an education something to be granted to the wealthiest only? Man, you must really long for the good old days, around about 1400. Watch out for the plague, though. Pretty nasty.

As far as roads are concerned, your point is taken. But in case you had not noticed, Trump wants to increase government spending on infrastructure. So, you know, oops.

As to SS and Medicare, what shall we do about those programs? End them? Curtail benefits? If the latter, its just a question of degree. Seems to me though that the boogeyman of "socialism" cannot be tolerated at all, right? So no shades of gray.
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SS, a "supposed retirement" that you will not get back that the government uses for it's convenience, created because the average American was too dumb and lacking in discipline to do for themselves....look at how well this socialist construct has worked....when is it out of money? The government should have to pay back every penny it has stolen from SS, and then cut a check to every working American over 18 at scaled rates correlated to earnings over time. Then, no more SS out of anyone's pay, figure out how to save for yourself.

Further, socialism requires that the collective whole to carry it's weight, good luck with that. Considering half don't pay income tax, and can't take care of themselves in terms of retirement and health and general living, increase the burden more so, and increase the governments control of this burden on the one's carrying the weight. Great ideas.

Let's talk about schools, and how, in almost every major city, for many many decades, has stayed so bad.....what is the government doing to make every school the best it can....nothing. Just like in Cincinnati, let's spend over a billion dollars on a wasteful streetcar, instead of putting all that money into, education and every school within it's borders..... Don't talk about education because it falls squarely on uncontrolled lack of commitment and monetary inputs to make them better in lieu of unions and wasteful public spending. Yeah government and socialism.

Infrastructure, lol, once again, no one to blame but the politicians who decide to squander resources on other "socially important" issues.
 
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