Abortions and the bible.

#1,102
#1,102
Roustabout said:
That’s fine by me.
That only speaks to the confusion we have sometimes as to who is human. For example, Nazi Germany and the Jews. African slaves. The unborn developing human.

Greater value? I don’t think we need to provide greater value when the option is death. If the value is there then the burden is on the pro choice side to show that inconvenience has greater value than death. A debate I’m glad to have. We already agree that good mothers care for their young, not kill. We already agree that human development begins at conception. We already agree that society has an obligation to nurture and care for children. Children, though lacking most of the rights adults enjoy, deserve protection and have value.
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So if a mother miscarries (your definition is motherhood on implantation) then is she a bad mother because her body rejected the embryo?
 
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#1,106
#1,106
82_VOL_83 said:
I used to believe that, but I had kids and grandkids and have held too many babies to believe that anytime after the heartbeat you could kill a child. You can make fun by calling it a tumor but you only prove your ignorance. At the same time you want universal heathcare because of your bleeding heart. You are certainly a turducken aren't you.
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You deserve another like for the use of turducken.
 
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#1,108
#1,108
82_VOL_83 said:
I used to believe that, but I had kids and grandkids and have held too many babies to believe that anytime after the heartbeat you could kill a child. You can make fun by calling it a tumor but you only prove your ignorance. At the same time you want universal heathcare because of your bleeding heart. You are certainly a turducken aren't you.
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.
 
#1,109
#1,109
82_VOL_83 said:
I used to believe that, but I had kids and grandkids and have held too many babies to believe that anytime after the heartbeat you could kill a child. You can make fun by calling it a tumor but you only prove your ignorance. At the same time you want universal heathcare because of your bleeding heart. You are certainly a turducken aren't you.
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For me personally, I wouldn't have an abortion or request that someone have one except in limited circumstances. However, I do believe in a women's right to choose up to a point. It ain't for me, but I support it. As for my language and use of the words like host and tumor, I do it because the pro life folks like to pretend there is no difference between a fertilized egg that implanted 4 seconds ago and a toddler. It is ludicrous. Not all life is equal.
 
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#1,110
#1,110
ClearwaterVol said:
For me personally, I wouldn't have an abortion or request that someone have one except in limited circumstances. However, I do believe in a women's right to choose up to a point. It ain't for me, but I support it. As for my language and use of the words like host and tumor, I do it because the pro life folks like to pretend there is no difference between a fertilized egg that implanted 4 seconds ago and a toddler. It is ludicrous. Not all life is equal.
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But it IS human, in this instance.
 
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#1,115
#1,115
Roustabout said:
Why would you assume that?
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Because you keep referring to "good" mothers vs. bad due to abortions. Your statement seems to imply that a mother that has one abortion cannot by definition be a good mother. Therefore, if the mothers body rejects the embryo (i.e., kills it), then is she a bad mother? Just making sure that you are calling every female that has ever had an abortion a bad mother. I can tell you, that is not correct and is self righteous bull ****.
 
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#1,116
#1,116
Roustabout said:
It’s universally accepted that human life has value.
That’s all that matters for my position.
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I've already told you why this point is irrelevant--human life could universally be held to have non-zero value and it could still be justified to have an abortion. You have to somehow show that human life has a value which always exceeds some minimum level.
 
#1,118
#1,118
ClearwaterVol said:
For me personally, I wouldn't have an abortion or request that someone have one except in limited circumstances. However, I do believe in a women's right to choose up to a point. It ain't for me, but I support it. As for my language and use of the words like host and tumor, I do it because the pro life folks like to pretend there is no difference between a fertilized egg that implanted 4 seconds ago and a toddler. It is ludicrous. Not all life is equal.
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I agree with everything but the bolded......the same way you have your opinion, they have theirs. The only technicality you and I differ on is the time. Ultrasound is a bitch.
 
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#1,119
#1,119
82_VOL_83 said:
It's an honest question and I know GOOD mothers that had abortions in college so I take issue with his broad classification.
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I have never heard/seen anyone in this thread classify abortion and miscarriage equal. You seem to be reaching for an argument on this one.
 
#1,120
#1,120
Wafflestomper said:
I've already told you why this point is irrelevant--human life could universally be held to have non-zero value and it could still be justified to have an abortion. You have to somehow show that human life has a value which always exceeds some minimum level.
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Human life doesn't always exceed a minimum level unless you set that level somewhere less than 0.
 
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#1,121
#1,121
Wafflestomper said:
I've already told you why this point is irrelevant--human life could universally be held to have non-zero value and it could still be justified to have an abortion. You have to somehow show that human life has a value which always exceeds some minimum level.
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Truly sad justification method Waff.
 
#1,123
#1,123
T-TownVol said:
I have never heard/seen anyone in this thread classify abortion and miscarriage equal. You seem to be reaching for an argument on this one.
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I'm not equating the two unless you believe his "good mother" statement.

Stated as fact by certain posters:
1) Motherhood begins at implantation.
2) Mother's body begins caring and nurturing child immediately.
3) Good mothers care for their children.

Then this must follow:
1) Mother's body rejects the embryo and kills it (miscarry)
2) This is a Bad Mother.

I've would never correlate having an abortion to being a bad mother. Kids make mistakes. Women make mistakes. BC fails. Rape happens. Incest happens. I can't in good conscious tell a woman what she has to do. However, I can tell her that I believe that she should have a very finite period of time in which to make her decision. That is the fallacy of not being fully pro-life and not being fully pro-abortion. I guess by definition I am pro-choice.

Damn, I am agreeing with CWV. ****ing sky is falling.
 
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#1,125
#1,125
82_VOL_83 said:
I'm not equating the two unless you believe his "good mother" statement.

Stated as fact by certain posters:
1) Motherhood begins at implantation.
2) Mother's body begins caring and nurturing child immediately.
3) Good mothers care for their children.

Then this must follow:
1) Mother's body rejects the embryo and kills it (miscarry)
2) This is a Bad Mother.

I've would never correlate having an abortion to being a bad mother. Kids make mistakes. Women make mistakes. BC fails. Rape happens. Incest happens. I can't in good conscious tell a woman what she has to do. However, I can tell her that I believe that she should have a very finite period of time in which to make her decision. That is the fallacy of not being fully pro-life and not being fully pro-abortion. I guess by definition I am pro-choice.

Damn, I am agreeing with CWV. ****ing sky is falling.
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This is wrong.

No one would ever blame the mother for something out of her control.
 
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