Bill Introduced to Ban Lootboxes and P2W (USA)

#1
BearCat204

BearCat204

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GOP senator announces bill to ban 'manipulative' video game design

Hawley's Protecting Children from Abusive Games Act would prohibit games geared toward children from implementing features that prompt users to pay real-world money to advance in the game, called "pay-to-win," or receive rewards at random for a fee, called "loot boxes."
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Don't really like this at all. If the goal is to protect "children" then that should be the job of the parent IMO.
 
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#4
#4
I've made my stance on lootboxes and stuff like that very clear, I hate them. However, I don't want the government involved in video games because that is a very slippery slope. I know these lootbox bans have passed in Belgium (and I think one other country?) but I honestly don't see this gaining much traction in the US
 
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#7
#7
Big Z said:
I've made my stance on lootboxes and stuff like that very clear, I hate them. However, I don't want the government involved in video games because that is a very slippery slope. I know these lootbox bans have passed in Belgium (and I think one other country?) but I honestly don't see this gaining much traction in the US
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TheDeeble said:
Lootboxes can be a cancer to gamers, but I don't want govt involvement.
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Exactly
 
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#10
#10
Lol. Never gonna happen, never should happen.

But it would put EA out of business, so I am kinda for it.

Sounds like someone's kid got a hold of the credit card.
 
#12
#12
Loot boxes are straight up gambling with real currency, and should be regulated as such. 21 plus or 18 plus, either way.

And in the case of the games with pay to win mechanics (able to pay real money for an in game advantage vs. Other real players), I hate them and at the least they should be advertised as such. Though I dont think they should be outright banned or have age restrictions.
 
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#13
VOLinFL_ said:
Loot boxes are straight up gambling with real currency, and should be regulated as such. 21 plus or 18 plus, either way.

And in the case of the games with pay to win mechanics (able to pay real money for an in game advantage vs. Other real players), I hate them and at the least they should be advertised as such. Though I dont think they should be outright banned or have age restrictions.
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As a parent you should be setting up controls for app/game purchases. My kids can’t buy anything on our phones/tablets without a PIN. I’ve not seen a F2P/P2W/AAA game that required a credit card to start playing, so there’s no reason kids should be able to buy things on there either. This is just nanny state bitching from lazy parents who got a $500 bill for Candy Crush and said “there oughta be a law”.
 
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#15
#15
For starters, baseball cards can be traded. Have multiples of one card? Trade it with someone for something you want they have multiples of. Card makers don't want to inhibit that. Most of the developers refuse to put that ability into their games. I remember people asking for the ability to trade weapons in Destiny, but that never happened.

People also aren't paying 60 bucks for the ability the spend more money for a chance to buy a random card. They want that card? They can buy the complete set, get every card from that year, and probably spend less than if they bought random packs of cards. Or go to a card show or card shop and buy it. Point is, it's accessible if they really want it. Game developers can create an item and put an incredibly small RNG on it meaning it may rarely be rewarded in a loot box. But players don't know that. Especially children. They spend 5 bucks, 10 bucks, 15, 100. Who knows how long before they just quit trying. Or developers make deals with the guys streaming their games on youtube. Give them some cool items, have them use them and promote them when the thousands of people watch their youtube streams so everyone wants to have it, but it can only be bought through lootboxes that may reward 1 out of 500 purchases. Or whatever number they choose to stick on it.

And they can even structure lootboxes like casino wins. Buy a lootbox and it can come with some flashy lights/animation and sounds. Just like slot machines at a casino. They do that for a reason. For some people it doesn't mean anything, but for others it can trigger a satisfactory feeling that they want again when they win. Good way to keep people at the casino spending money.
 
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#16
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TheDeeble said:
For starters, baseball cards can be traded. Have multiples of one card? Trade it with someone for something you want they have multiples of. Card makers don't want to inhibit that. Most of the developers refuse to put that ability into their games. I remember people asking for the ability to trade weapons in Destiny, but that never happened.

People also aren't paying 60 bucks for the ability the spend more money for a chance to buy a random card. They want that card? They can buy the complete set, get every card from that year, and probably spend less than if they bought random packs of cards. Or go to a card show or card shop and buy it. Point is, it's accessible if they really want it. Game developers can create an item and put an incredibly small RNG on it meaning it may rarely be rewarded in a loot box. But players don't know that. Especially children. They spend 5 bucks, 10 bucks, 15, 100. Who knows how long before they just quit trying. Or developers make deals with the guys streaming their games on youtube. Give them some cool items, have them use them and promote them when the thousands of people watch their youtube streams so everyone wants to have it, but it can only be bought through lootboxes that may reward 1 out of 500 purchases. Or whatever number they choose to stick on it.

And they can even structure lootboxes like casino wins. Buy a lootbox and it can come with some flashy lights/animation and sounds. Just like slot machines at a casino. They do that for a reason. For some people it doesn't mean anything, but for others it can trigger a satisfactory feeling that they want again when they win. Good way to keep people at the casino spending money.
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I'm 100% with you on the ability to trade weapons with other players. That should absolutely be allowed!

Regarding your casino "flashing lights" argument. Sorry but I dont see that as some kind of diabolical detriment to children. What's next? Banning Chuck E Cheese? Because that's exactly what they do with their arcade so kids will spend tons of cash to earn enough tickets to afford a slap bracelet. Like everything else, it's the parent's responsibility to regulate their children's behavior, not the government's. Anyone who carelessly leaves their credit card info saved online without at least a pin # requirement is a moron and deserves the enormous charge on their account.
 
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#17
Brave Volunteer said:
I'm 100% with you on the ability to trade weapons with other players. That should absolutely be allowed!

Regarding your casino "flashing lights" argument. Sorry but I dont see that as some kind of diabolical detriment to children. What's next? Banning Chuck E Cheese? Because that's exactly what they do with their arcade so kids will spend tons of cash to earn enough tickets to afford a slap bracelet. Like everything else, it's the parent's responsibility to regulate their children's behavior, not the government's. Anyone who carelessly leaves their credit card info saved online without at least a pin # requirement is a moron and deserves the enormous charge on their account.
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I wouldn't consider it a diabolical detriment either. At Chuck E Cheese those kids are probably spending cash from their parents. They have to go back and ask for more from their parents. That's different from a game developer taking advantage of a parent not realizing their card info is saved somewhere and one can easily spend 100 bucks in a few minutes.

As for the flashing lights/sounds stuff I'm probably thinking of it more in terms of free to play games that make progress incredibly slow unless you want to spend money to upgrade your stuff now. I absolutely believe they are designing those games just to hit on gambling addictions. I think loot boxes incorporate that some too. But some of that is in free to play games and is probably a different discussion than loot boxes in a 60 dollar video game.

But I still don't want govt involvement. They'll screw it up and make things worse somehow.
 
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#18
#18
TheDeeble said:
I wouldn't consider it a diabolical detriment either. At Chuck E Cheese those kids are probably spending cash from their parents. They have to go back and ask for more from their parents. That's different from a game developer taking advantage of a parent not realizing their card info is saved somewhere and one can easily spend 100 bucks in a few minutes.

As for the flashing lights/sounds stuff I'm probably thinking of it more in terms of free to play games that make progress incredibly slow unless you want to spend money to upgrade your stuff now. I absolutely believe they are designing those games just to hit on gambling addictions. I think loot boxes incorporate that some too. But some of that is in free to play games and is probably a different discussion than loot boxes in a 60 dollar video game.

But I still don't want govt involvement. They'll screw it up and make things worse somehow.
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Easy to get cash from parents if you know where they keep it.
 
#19
#19
LouderVol said:
Easy to get cash from parents if you know where they keep it.
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That’s a parenting issue 100%, so is the credit card thing. There are things you can do that will prevent your child from using your stored credit card in these stores.
 
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#20
LouderVol said:
Easy to get cash from parents if you know where they keep it.
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Sure it is, but if your kids are stealing cash from you at Chuck E Cheese and you don't know, you've probably got a bigger problem than a kid stealing cash.

But cash isn't really transferable to the loot box in video game argument. That was my point earlier.
 
#21
#21
I think odds should be published.

The cash/cc argument seems dumb. Don't store your card online and your kid doesn't spend the money.
 
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#22
#22
One thing I wish all gaming companies would be required to do is if they're going to have lootboxes, card packs, etc. in their game they should have to post the odds of getting whatever contents are in them
 
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#23
DrRosenRosen said:
I think odds should be published.

The cash/cc argument seems dumb. Don't store your card online and your kid doesn't spend the money.
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I know the show has odds posted for any MTX. With the cc argument, you can still have it on your account and have a authentication and password to make any purchases set up. On PSN anyway, not sure about the others.
 
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TheDeeble said:
I wouldn't consider it a diabolical detriment either. At Chuck E Cheese those kids are probably spending cash from their parents. They have to go back and ask for more from their parents. That's different from a game developer taking advantage of a parent not realizing their card info is saved somewhere and one can easily spend 100 bucks in a few minutes.

As for the flashing lights/sounds stuff I'm probably thinking of it more in terms of free to play games that make progress incredibly slow unless you want to spend money to upgrade your stuff now. I absolutely believe they are designing those games just to hit on gambling addictions. I think loot boxes incorporate that some too. But some of that is in free to play games and is probably a different discussion than loot boxes in a 60 dollar video game.

But I still don't want govt involvement. They'll screw it up and make things worse somehow.
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How is a kid using a credit card without permission a game developer taking advantage of a parent? The problem you describe is an internal one between parent and child.
 
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#25
DancingOutlaw said:
How is a kid using a credit card without permission a game developer taking advantage of a parent? The problem you describe is an internal one between parent and child.
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It is. And I'm not advocating any law against it. Some of it is parents have too much trust. Some of it is naive parents that don't realize what's out there and don't think twice about the cc being saved onto a console/pc. And I don't mean taking advantage as something nefarious. Just It is extremely convenient for someone to buy a lootbox/etc right there on the console. The game developers are going straight to the kids. Doesn't matter how old they are.

One thing that should happen over time is increased awareness realizing what can be purchased and how and parents taking their own measures to prevent it. Shouldn't be as much of a problem going forward.
 
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