Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

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Lol. You are clueless. It's not what he did, it's how he went about it. Maybe you should look around at other programs and see when their head coaches hold guns to their heads for more money, in a Public way. Many thought Barnes was lifer here. All he did was show he's a hired gun. That's fine for him. That's also fine for fans to view him that way. I'm sorry if you can't see that.
I think my leash on tolerating underachievement is shorter. Flirting with UCLA in this manner didnt just feel like "Hey I'm listening with that figure"

I will still support him obviously but he went from "best friend" to "friend". This simply made his margin for error smaller. You arent loyal to us, well... when you need our loyalty, it'll be a decision while it wouldn't before.
 
Lol. You are clueless. It's not what he did, it's how he went about it. Maybe you should look around at other programs and see when their head coaches hold guns to their heads for more money, in a Public way. Many thought Barnes was lifer here. All he did was show he's a hired gun. That's fine for him. That's also fine for fans to view him that way. I'm sorry if you can't see that.

Gundy is great at it. His fans love him and he’s a Damn good coach.
 
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Lol. You are clueless. It's not what he did, it's how he went about it. Maybe you should look around at other programs and see when their head coaches hold guns to their heads for more money, in a Public way. Many thought Barnes was lifer here. All he did was show he's a hired gun. That's fine for him. That's also fine for fans to view him that way. I'm sorry if you can't see that.
Damn with the GUN metaphors! Another program wanted him to fix their program and offered him a top line salary...more than likely following suit for his assistants...and Fulmer went to the university and got a financial package that came close. Where’s the GUN? Odd capers you Scotch-Irish dream up! 🤨
 
I think my leash on tolerating underachievement is shorter. Flirting with UCLA in this manner didnt just feel like "Hey I'm listening with that figure"

I will still support him obviously but he went from "best friend" to "friend". This simply made his margin for error smaller. You arent loyal to us, well... when you need our loyalty, it'll be a decision while it wouldn't before.
Same here. I wanted him to stay. But I think it's disingenuous to think fans shouldn't look at him differently. If you're going make the big boy money, you need to perform like the big boys. Recruiting a bunch of 2-3 stars and developing them into sweet 16 level teams every four years isn't performing like the big boys.
 
Damn with the GUN metaphors! Another program wanted him to fix their program and offered him a top line salary...more than likely following suit for his assistants...and Fulmer went to the university and got a financial package that came close. Where’s the GUN? Odd capers you Scotch-Irish dream up! 🤨
It was claimed this was not about money for himself but and overall lack of support for basketball. If that were the case it shouldn't have come down to his threatening to leave to get what he wanted is all I'm saying. Maybe he tried and Fulmer either didn't understand the ramifications of saying no. Regardless, I don't think it's unreasonable to think fans will or should view him differently.
 
Gundy is great at it. His fans love him and he’s a Damn good coach.
It's a little different. Gundy is much younger with many years left where Barnes in all likelihood has 5 or so years to go. Also, there should be a sense of loyalty that he walked right into the Tennessee job when he was fired at Texas. Dynamics are slightly different.
 
It was claimed this was not about money for himself but and overall lack of support for basketball. If that were the case it shouldn't have come down to his threatening to leave to get what he wanted is all I'm saying. Maybe he tried and Fulmer either didn't understand the ramifications of saying no. Regardless, I don't think it's unreasonable to think fans will or should view him differently.

I think it just shows he’s been disingenuous about how much he loves our program and how happy he is to be here.

He almost jumped for the second job that contacted him - and would have entertained Arkansas had they not been in conference because he would have had to play his ex-players.

I really did think Barnes was different. That he totally bought into everything here. Almost like an ambassador for Tennessee as a whole. Now he just feels like our basketball coach.
 
Barnes staying is huge, HUGE. I think UCLA & our ridiculous media attention from "VolTwitter" drove the rumors more than anything. I am positive Barnes & Fulmer didn't want/or leak anything while still in discussion. In short all the complaints about how he went about it are pointless, Barnes & Phil both were tight lipped and any leaks/speculation was not coming from them in anyway. Barnes was approached by UCLA (since he doesn't have an agent) and then took the time to talk things over at length with Phil. I don't know how serious he was about taking the job, but it's very obvious to me now more than ever that he really loves being our coach.

Harper is a solid hire, she checked all the boxes that Phil & co wanted to check. I think she was a top 3 candidate from the beginning. And people act like she was absolutely awful at NC State, which simply isn't the case. She was 70-64, went 20-14, 14-17, 19-16, 17-17. I think NC State let her go a little too quickly, but they found a great replacement in Wes Moore. I'm glad she had that experience though should make her a better coach. She's probably not the best they could have got, but she may be the best thing for the Lady Vols. We'll see if she can turn the corner with better facilities/talent.

Grant's about to go down as a VFL legend when he announces his return for one more year, I hope it entices Bone to return as well if he does't get a first round evaluation.
 
It's a little different. Gundy is much younger with many years left where Barnes in all likelihood has 5 or so years to go. Also, there should be a sense of loyalty that he walked right into the Tennessee job when he was fired at Texas. Dynamics are slightly different.

I just never really fault a coach or player trying to get the most for themselves. Because there really is no two way loyalty. Even if this ucla thing never happened, and Rick goes 19-17 next year and misses the tournament...a lot will want him gone. So I’ve always been get your money why you can
 
I think it just shows he’s been disingenuous about how much he loves our program and how happy he is to be here.

He almost jumped for the second job that contacted him - and would have entertained Arkansas had they not been in conference because he would have had to play his ex-players.

I really did think Barnes was different. That he totally bought into everything here. Almost like an ambassador for Tennessee as a whole. Now he just feels like our basketball coach.
If you were assuming Barnes felt some sort of lifelong loyalty to Tennessee, that’s on you for being unrealistic.

Short of some coaches who work for their alma mater, that just doesn’t exist anymore. And even then sometimes it’s not so. Hard to blame the coaches for that when fans and administrations are willing to pull the plug on them so quickly nowadays. It’s just how professional (and even some HS level) coaching works.
 
I think it just shows he’s been disingenuous about how much he loves our program and how happy he is to be here.

He almost jumped for the second job that contacted him - and would have entertained Arkansas had they not been in conference because he would have had to play his ex-players.

I really did think Barnes was different. That he totally bought into everything here. Almost like an ambassador for Tennessee as a whole. Now he just feels like our basketball coach.
Yep. Maybe it's wrong to have that expectation. I do think there is a lot of truth to him being disgruntled about overall support for the program. After seeing what our assistants made compared to other programs, Barnes had a gripe. I just wish it hadn't come to him leaving to get what he wanted.
 
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I just never really fault a coach or player trying to get the most for themselves. Because there really is no two way loyalty. Even if this ucla thing never happened, and Rick goes 19-17 next year and misses the tournament...a lot will want him gone. So I’ve always been get your money why you can

I mean look how Texas did him, he had one bad season where he didn't make the NCAA and then was sent packing. I think that experience changed his mindset a bit on the whole loyalty to the school situation. Personally hope Shaka never gets it done at Texas over all that.

I still think Lanier leaving and other assistants being talked to was part of the deal with Barnes. He's obviously going to understand losing guys to HC jobs, and will likely have no ill will towards staff leaving. But then he's faced with hiring new assistants and knows it'll cost more money than what his previous salary pool allowed for...especially when the assistants weren't being offered multi-year contracts.
 
If you were assuming Barnes felt some sort of lifelong loyalty to Tennessee, that’s on you for being unrealistic.

Short of some coaches who work for their alma mater, that just doesn’t exist anymore. And even then sometimes it’s not so. Hard to blame the coaches for that when fans and administrations are willing to pull the plug on them so quickly nowadays. It’s just how professional (and even some HS level) coaching works.
Yeah, I don’t disagree with you at all that it was unrealistic.

Just thought Barnes thought more of this situation given how he was totally embraced by the community after Texas kicked him to the curb. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say he’s our (and I’m not speaking for myself here, I’m lukewarm on him) most beloved coach since Bruce in any sport. And he may be higher than that to be honest.
 
Personally, I think this time yesterday Barnes was headed to UCLA. Gotta commend the admin for doing what it took to keep him here. I really don't think this was a play by Barnes for more money.

All about the staff, you got assistants who are "at will" employees with no contracts they'll be more likely to take contract jobs when they start popping up....and winning at UT will put a big target on their backs for potential job offers.
 
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I just never really fault a coach or player trying to get the most for themselves. Because there really is no two way loyalty. Even if this ucla thing never happened, and Rick goes 19-17 next year and misses the tournament...a lot will want him gone. So I’ve always been get your money why you can
Lol, some wanted him gone because he didn't win a national championship or at least make a final four.

I agree, I dont fault anyone for trying to maximize their wealth. More power to them. However, don't claim to be all in on something when you leave the door open with a foot sticking out. Whether it was Barnes fault or not, he was perceived to be here until he retired. He preached family and perspective. His image was that he was different than most head coaches that would leave for the next big thing. When that turns out not to be true, I don't think it's fair to be critical of fans for view him a different light than they thought.
 
Yeah, I don’t disagree with you at all that it was unrealistic.

Just thought Barnes thought more of this situation given how he was totally embraced by the community after Texas kicked him to the curb. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say he’s our (and I’m not speaking for myself here, I’m lukewarm on him) most beloved coach since Bruce in any sport. And he may be higher than that to be honest.
I think it’s probably a good example of how people can exist on two planes. Barnes could totally love Knoxville, the University, and the community and feel like he wasn’t getting the support he needed to get over the hump to the extent that he entertained UCLA (who made a hell of a tempting offer, by all accounts). Those things don’t have to be mutually exclusive.

I also do kind of think that the way he was replaced at Texas probably jaded him a bit as far as seeing the type of loyalty fans and ADs show coaches nowadays.
 
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