Better times are coming, here's how you can tell.

#27
#27
I now have serious doubts that UT will ever get it together in football, can't see any light at the end of the tunnel what so ever?
 
#29
#29
AshG said:
I'll try to keep this to an approachable length. My attention span is likely as far gone as many of yours are at this point. But please, save the tl;dr schtick for the kiddie pool.

The tl;dr is "we're going to be alright." There, now you can go.

Without going into all the boring details, my dissertation work is on transition, transaction, persistence, and grit in performance-related fields. Observing the team from a distance limits my accuracy tremendously, but I believe these four items are at play right in front of us. How I see the staff handling them is what keeps me positive.

1. Transition. There are three stages to transition, and the older players look like they are stuck in the first stage (starting to transition). This is usually marked by extreme difficulty adjusting to new environments or expectations. Many of these older kids didn't transition for CBJ either; the ones stuck in transition tend to be those who weren't used to sharing the spotlight with anyone else at the high school level. Primadonnas tend to want to maintain their primadonna identities. Teams built around them often falter when the player moves on because the entire team has to transition to fit the next big recruiting catch rather than the other way around. Expect to see less of this and more completed transitions (aka buy-in) as Pruitt and staff evaluate talent on ability to integrate as well as just raw talent. Completed transitions by a greater number of players lead to more efficient...

2. Transaction. Athletics are built around transactional relationships. A coaching staff and their team exists in a symbiotic relationship. The coaching staff provides training and exposure to the players, who are then supposed to put on display what they've been taught. When they display what they were taught at a high enough level, the coaching staff is able to move to next-level skills. The performance of the players also helps to bring notoriety to the coaches, who can then recruit a higher echelon of players. When Pruitt kicked the board on the sideline early in the season, it was out of frustration that the unit was failing to perform what they'd been taught; the transactional relationship had broken down. Personnel who are stuck in transition are notorious for contributing to a breakdown of the transactional process and make it more difficult for those who are committed to overcome the mess that's been created. Like a cog in a watch or clock, one broken cog tooth is all it takes to throw the whole thing out of whack. Traditionally, it's up to the players / personnel to fit into the transactional expectations of the coach / CEO / director. Primadonnas and go-it-alone players are especially dangerous. Pruitt has been brought up in effective systems that removed or mitigated the effects of aberrant participants, and we can see some signs of that happening here.

3. Persistence and grit. These are two sides of the same coin but are still markedly different. Persistence is related to how an individual handles external issues to get where they want to go, while grit is largely an internal dialogue and reaction. Players who have been handed everything in the past and not expected to earn their place on the squad outside of their raw ability often have low persistence metrics because they have't had to push through external difficulties. Bad press, pressure from another player nipping at their heels in the depth chart, and struggles with life away from the field put players in the position to demonstrate their ability to persist in the face of adversity. Grit is the inner dialogue; pushing through doubts, staying focused on the end result instead of being trapped by what ifs and why did Is, Grit can be taught; good coaches do it all the time. Persistence has to be learned the hard way of actually dealing with the issues at hand.

This year's Vols had plenty opportunities to demonstrate persistence, but when it came down to it they were lacking the wherewithal to push through to the other side. A lack of grit by many players was evident on the field tonight, but there is more and more being demonstrated by the younger members of the team. Assuming Pruitt can continue to lock down players who are willing to transition fully into the team's group identity and the incoming players feel they are receiving a quality product from Pruitt and staff and reciprocate with high-quality gameplay, we should see marked improvements next year and beyond.

It's easy to look at Mullen and Florida and be pissed off that we don't have that level of success this year. I wanted it, too. Florida didn't have the pernicious, program-sapping personnel issues because they had a stable of players who were more willing to transition into a new team ethos than we did. As CBJ's players matriculate out, we'll likely see greater buy-in, better play, and less of the team giving up in tough situations. We're going to be alright.
Click to expand...


After the third go around, this sunshine pumping is getting old. We heard it with Dooley, Jones, and now, Pruitt. I'm no Lane Kiffin fan, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the team he would have produced with this Vol roster would have been superior to what we saw at Vanderbilt by orders of magnitude. Kiffin has no monopoly on coaching competence. In other words, there's others who are as good or better. Look at what Scott Frost did at Nebraska with a thinner roster. I think we're looking at another three or four years of humiliation and disappointment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LosingFaithVol and maotai
#30
#30
Boston_Vol said:
Yes, it was unrealistic. Your bias towards Vandy is based in some fan entitlement that UT should win without putting in the work. Get over the 90 and the all-time record. It's simple despite what you think of Vandy or how bad they are they have had stability and have a tough-minded team two things we haven't had in a long time. I guarantee you that CJP would rather have Vandy's roster than UT's. They have beat us 3 years in a row with 2 different coaches and God knows how many different coordinators the common denominator in all this is the player on the field. They are weak minded, physically weak, slow, and low footbal IQ players.
Click to expand...
You do realize these same players beat Auburn and Kentucky this year, right? It shouldn't take four years if we have the right coach. It's not a matter of all of our horses have to be replaced; all of our horses have to pull their weight every week.
 
#31
#31
It doesn't matter. I'm cashing in my tokens for UT football. So better times are coming for me as a result of that. I will enjoy the BBall Vols, who have shown their desire to excel over expectations and give all they have got and then some. If FB ever experiences a turnaround, then I will pay attention again. I'm not counting on it, though, and won't lose any sleep waiting for it.

Should have known after that cluster**** during the last FB coaching search that the aftershocks gave no hint of better times to come. The entire FB program is diseased with no cure on the horizon.
 
Last edited:
#33
#33
It seems as though many have forgotten who these players really are. Many are the same players that quit trying last year. And what about the year before that? A loss to Vandy should be no surprise. Has it occurred to anyone that this team has no Senior leadership? How is lack of leadership and the past quitters CJPs fault? I personally could care less about this loss or this seasons high and lows as long as CJP has laid the groundwork for higher expectation from here on out. The staff will be criticized for their shortcomings but the players will be remembered as quitters and losers. Difference is the staff will get some time to correct their faults. The players that quit will always be considered just what they are, quitters. No one likes to say any of that but it is what it is. Those young men were givin an opportunity of a lifetime and quit on their teammates and fans. It must have really hard to go through the coaching issues but that is no reason to quit. Fans can and will forgive a loss and bad season but not the way this has happened. Two years in a row this team quit and that is not something that a year one coach and staff can repair. I hope all the quitters are cut.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alto1 and VolNExile
#35
#35
AshG said:
I'll try to keep this to an approachable length. My attention span is likely as far gone as many of yours are at this point. But please, save the tl;dr schtick for the kiddie pool.

The tl;dr is "we're going to be alright." There, now you can go.

Without going into all the boring details, my dissertation work is on transition, transaction, persistence, and grit in performance-related fields. Observing the team from a distance limits my accuracy tremendously, but I believe these four items are at play right in front of us. How I see the staff handling them is what keeps me positive.

1. Transition. There are three stages to transition, and the older players look like they are stuck in the first stage (starting to transition). This is usually marked by extreme difficulty adjusting to new environments or expectations. Many of these older kids didn't transition for CBJ either; the ones stuck in transition tend to be those who weren't used to sharing the spotlight with anyone else at the high school level. Primadonnas tend to want to maintain their primadonna identities. Teams built around them often falter when the player moves on because the entire team has to transition to fit the next big recruiting catch rather than the other way around. Expect to see less of this and more completed transitions (aka buy-in) as Pruitt and staff evaluate talent on ability to integrate as well as just raw talent. Completed transitions by a greater number of players lead to more efficient...

2. Transaction. Athletics are built around transactional relationships. A coaching staff and their team exists in a symbiotic relationship. The coaching staff provides training and exposure to the players, who are then supposed to put on display what they've been taught. When they display what they were taught at a high enough level, the coaching staff is able to move to next-level skills. The performance of the players also helps to bring notoriety to the coaches, who can then recruit a higher echelon of players. When Pruitt kicked the board on the sideline early in the season, it was out of frustration that the unit was failing to perform what they'd been taught; the transactional relationship had broken down. Personnel who are stuck in transition are notorious for contributing to a breakdown of the transactional process and make it more difficult for those who are committed to overcome the mess that's been created. Like a cog in a watch or clock, one broken cog tooth is all it takes to throw the whole thing out of whack. Traditionally, it's up to the players / personnel to fit into the transactional expectations of the coach / CEO / director. Primadonnas and go-it-alone players are especially dangerous. Pruitt has been brought up in effective systems that removed or mitigated the effects of aberrant participants, and we can see some signs of that happening here.

3. Persistence and grit. These are two sides of the same coin but are still markedly different. Persistence is related to how an individual handles external issues to get where they want to go, while grit is largely an internal dialogue and reaction. Players who have been handed everything in the past and not expected to earn their place on the squad outside of their raw ability often have low persistence metrics because they have't had to push through external difficulties. Bad press, pressure from another player nipping at their heels in the depth chart, and struggles with life away from the field put players in the position to demonstrate their ability to persist in the face of adversity. Grit is the inner dialogue; pushing through doubts, staying focused on the end result instead of being trapped by what ifs and why did Is, Grit can be taught; good coaches do it all the time. Persistence has to be learned the hard way of actually dealing with the issues at hand.

This year's Vols had plenty opportunities to demonstrate persistence, but when it came down to it they were lacking the wherewithal to push through to the other side. A lack of grit by many players was evident on the field tonight, but there is more and more being demonstrated by the younger members of the team. Assuming Pruitt can continue to lock down players who are willing to transition fully into the team's group identity and the incoming players feel they are receiving a quality product from Pruitt and staff and reciprocate with high-quality gameplay, we should see marked improvements next year and beyond.

It's easy to look at Mullen and Florida and be pissed off that we don't have that level of success this year. I wanted it, too. Florida didn't have the pernicious, program-sapping personnel issues because they had a stable of players who were more willing to transition into a new team ethos than we did. As CBJ's players matriculate out, we'll likely see greater buy-in, better play, and less of the team giving up in tough situations. We're going to be alright.
Click to expand...
Nice analysis!

I agree with most everything you said.
 
#36
#36
Pruitt must go 6-6, beat Vandy and go to bowl next season. Otherwise he's on the hot seat going into 2020, with 8-4 the minimum accepted, and Haslam will have Fulmer bounced too should these not occur.
 
#39
#39
arkyvol said:
After the third go around, this sunshine pumping is getting old. We heard it with Dooley, Jones, and now, Pruitt. I'm no Lane Kiffin fan, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the team he would have produced with this Vol roster would have been superior to what we saw at Vanderbilt by orders of magnitude. Kiffin has no monopoly on coaching competence. In other words, there's others who are as good or better. Look at what Scott Frost did at Nebraska with a thinner roster. I think we're looking at another three or four years of humiliation and disappointment.
Click to expand...

Pointing out evidence of manifestation of psychosocial constructs isn't sunshine pumping, it's analysis grounded in sound science. There are way more components to the broken machine of Volunteer football to simply narrow things down to a person or two or a concept or two. I don't have enough of a dog in the fight to be a sunshine pumper or negavol; I'm simply sharing observations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VolNExile
#40
#40
Mightyvol said:
Many knowledgeable people who looked at our personnel thought UT would go winless again in SEC play. Butch built a MAC team and these guys can't complete in the SEC. Dobbs masked Butch's failed formula. These guys have been taught not to care because of past failures. These were coaching failures in recruiting, development and team building. CJP could mask these issues to a point, but competent quarterback play and physical offensive line play exposed the defense. Undersized and over matched offensive line play combined with a quarterback who held the ball too long and didn't read blitzs well resulted in negative plays on almost every possession. The team won 5 games and in their view (a Butch Jones view) they overachieved. The best indicator of future behavior is the past. These players quit in the past so it is not surprising they quit this year too.
Click to expand...
This is the most honest and logical assessment I’ve read today.
Thank you sir!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Carson11 and Mightyvol
#41
#41
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Keep this out of the football forum.

The political forum is that way ---->
Click to expand...

What was political about what I said dumb dumb "Allah" means "God" in another language. No different than you saying "hola" instead of "hello". You probably want me to talk American huh.
 
#43
#43
lifeisdeep said:
You do realize these same players beat Auburn and Kentucky this year, right? It shouldn't take four years if we have the right coach. It's not a matter of all of our horses have to be replaced; all of our horses have to pull their weight every week.
Click to expand...
I believe Auburn and Kentucky were looking forward to the games after the UT contests.
 
#44
#44
Boston_Vol said:
What was political about what I said dumb dumb "Allah" means "God" in another language. No different than you saying "hola" instead of "hello". You probably want me to talk American huh.
Click to expand...
As long as you talk football in a football forum I don't care what you call it.
 
#46
#46
Boston_Vol said:
This is going to be a much longer turn around than we expected. 6-6 is the ceiling next year. We will probably have a lot of freshman on the field next year. We just don't have the juice at the moment. It will probably be year 4 before CJP starts having real success 2022 sec east champs
Click to expand...

Have you looked at the schedule next year?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sat330pmAppt
#47
#47
arkyvol said:
After the third go around, this sunshine pumping is getting old. We heard it with Dooley, Jones, and now, Pruitt. I'm no Lane Kiffin fan, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the team he would have produced with this Vol roster would have been superior to what we saw at Vanderbilt by orders of magnitude. Kiffin has no monopoly on coaching competence. In other words, there's others who are as good or better. Look at what Scott Frost did at Nebraska with a thinner roster. I think we're looking at another three or four years of humiliation and disappointment.
Click to expand...

Scott Frost went 4-8 in a weaker conference. Do you guys even watch college football, or do you just come on here to complain and try to make the situation worse than it is?
 
  • Like
Reactions: vols4evah
#48
#48
arkyvol said:
After the third go around, this sunshine pumping is getting old. We heard it with Dooley, Jones, and now, Pruitt. I'm no Lane Kiffin fan, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the team he would have produced with this Vol roster would have been superior to what we saw at Vanderbilt by orders of magnitude. Kiffin has no monopoly on coaching competence. In other words, there's others who are as good or better. Look at what Scott Frost did at Nebraska with a thinner roster. I think we're looking at another three or four years of humiliation and disappointment.
Click to expand...

Wasn’t Frost,like,4-8 this year?
 
#49
#49
AshG said:
I'll try to keep this to an approachable length. My attention span is likely as far gone as many of yours are at this point. But please, save the tl;dr schtick for the kiddie pool.

The tl;dr is "we're going to be alright." There, now you can go.

Without going into all the boring details, my dissertation work is on transition, transaction, persistence, and grit in performance-related fields. Observing the team from a distance limits my accuracy tremendously, but I believe these four items are at play right in front of us. How I see the staff handling them is what keeps me positive.

1. Transition. There are three stages to transition, and the older players look like they are stuck in the first stage (starting to transition). This is usually marked by extreme difficulty adjusting to new environments or expectations. Many of these older kids didn't transition for CBJ either; the ones stuck in transition tend to be those who weren't used to sharing the spotlight with anyone else at the high school level. Primadonnas tend to want to maintain their primadonna identities. Teams built around them often falter when the player moves on because the entire team has to transition to fit the next big recruiting catch rather than the other way around. Expect to see less of this and more completed transitions (aka buy-in) as Pruitt and staff evaluate talent on ability to integrate as well as just raw talent. Completed transitions by a greater number of players lead to more efficient...

2. Transaction. Athletics are built around transactional relationships. A coaching staff and their team exists in a symbiotic relationship. The coaching staff provides training and exposure to the players, who are then supposed to put on display what they've been taught. When they display what they were taught at a high enough level, the coaching staff is able to move to next-level skills. The performance of the players also helps to bring notoriety to the coaches, who can then recruit a higher echelon of players. When Pruitt kicked the board on the sideline early in the season, it was out of frustration that the unit was failing to perform what they'd been taught; the transactional relationship had broken down. Personnel who are stuck in transition are notorious for contributing to a breakdown of the transactional process and make it more difficult for those who are committed to overcome the mess that's been created. Like a cog in a watch or clock, one broken cog tooth is all it takes to throw the whole thing out of whack. Traditionally, it's up to the players / personnel to fit into the transactional expectations of the coach / CEO / director. Primadonnas and go-it-alone players are especially dangerous. Pruitt has been brought up in effective systems that removed or mitigated the effects of aberrant participants, and we can see some signs of that happening here.

3. Persistence and grit. These are two sides of the same coin but are still markedly different. Persistence is related to how an individual handles external issues to get where they want to go, while grit is largely an internal dialogue and reaction. Players who have been handed everything in the past and not expected to earn their place on the squad outside of their raw ability often have low persistence metrics because they have't had to push through external difficulties. Bad press, pressure from another player nipping at their heels in the depth chart, and struggles with life away from the field put players in the position to demonstrate their ability to persist in the face of adversity. Grit is the inner dialogue; pushing through doubts, staying focused on the end result instead of being trapped by what ifs and why did Is, Grit can be taught; good coaches do it all the time. Persistence has to be learned the hard way of actually dealing with the issues at hand.

This year's Vols had plenty opportunities to demonstrate persistence, but when it came down to it they were lacking the wherewithal to push through to the other side. A lack of grit by many players was evident on the field tonight, but there is more and more being demonstrated by the younger members of the team. Assuming Pruitt can continue to lock down players who are willing to transition fully into the team's group identity and the incoming players feel they are receiving a quality product from Pruitt and staff and reciprocate with high-quality gameplay, we should see marked improvements next year and beyond.

It's easy to look at Mullen and Florida and be pissed off that we don't have that level of success this year. I wanted it, too. Florida didn't have the pernicious, program-sapping personnel issues because they had a stable of players who were more willing to transition into a new team ethos than we did. As CBJ's players matriculate out, we'll likely see greater buy-in, better play, and less of the team giving up in tough situations. We're going to be alright.
Click to expand...


Too long ; didnt read

Coaches walk on water, players suck

You are welcome.
 
#50
#50
A lot depends on recruiting and buy-in, but I think there is a good chance that they can win 7 or 8 games next year, based on a few facts, as follows. The schedule is still difficult, but probably a little easier (BYU instead of WV, although UAB may be tough, and 2 open dates). Also Lock and Shurmur graduate, and probably Snell leaves for NFL. Not sure about Smith, but Kennedy should be back and probably some OLine and other recruits with high potential. Good coaches usually show improvement in their second year, for example Saban at Bama, 7-6 first, then 12-2 second, Smart at Ga, 8-5 then 13-2. This is not to say Pruitt will get 10 or more wins, as the overall talent level is lower than those teams and the culture was significantly damaged by previous coaches, but I think 7 or 8 wins are possible next year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Volfanjohnny2005
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top