12 dead in shooting at Thousand Oaks nightclub

#226
#226
lawgator1 said:
Its a different question. Of course it would be best to have a better handle on mental illness. That is true for all sorts of reasons.

But, more narrowly, when people have a chronic mental illness, or an episode as reported on this fellow where police are called and they send out a mental health counselor to see if he should be taken in, even if it is not so acute that he has to be taken into custody, I would hope we would all agree there should be a sweep of his home for firearms and they should be taken for safekeeping until it is demonstrated that he is not a threat.
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You are talking about mental illness as if there is an on off switch. We confiscating knives, bats, tire irons too? They are all weapons and just as deadly as a bullet.
As a young woman I was married to a schizophrenic with paranoic features. As long as he self medicated with pot he was ok. The minute you added stress and lack of being high he was dangerous. Enough to have a judge commit him for 90 days. When he got out he parroted everything they taught him that was acceptable to say to be released.
So the mental health “expert” that was qualified to say he’s ok to release into society was wrong. He held me captive with a boot knife after that. He never owned a gun but his boot knife could have done the job.

Even my psych teacher admitted it. As much as psychiatrists like to tout their expertise, their only choice is to throw drugs at a chemically imbalanced brain and hope they are manipulating the right neuroreceptors. There are certain conditions that will never be “cured”. There are certain people that will never be ok in society.

So who’s gonna decide who’s safe and who’s not? Family members? Police? The psych community? Heaven forbid they have an ex gf or bf with an axe to grind. This is the gap in the solution to mental health targeting.
Are we going to violate rights on the JIC principle?
 
#227
#227
DancingOutlaw said:
What is the point of shouting down people who think about or pray for those who are hurting? It takes time out of your day to let someone know their concern for someone else is a waste of time in your opinion. Does that make your day better, or theirs? I don’t know when the world go so divided that thinking about other people causes offense and negative reactions.
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Who is getting "shouted down"?

Keep trotting out words in the wake of tragedy and it becomes a broken record. People want action, not lip service.
 
#229
#229
Septic said:
Do you have faith that there aren't magical gnomes living in your backyard or do you just not have any reason to believe there are?
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How did we all the sudden end up on yard gnomes Septic. To be clear I was talking about faith in god. If you have some measure to prove he doesn’t exist, have at it. Lay it all out.
 
#230
#230
NurseGoodVol said:
You are talking about mental illness as if there is an on off switch. We confiscating knives, bats, tire irons too? They are all weapons and just as deadly as a bullet.
As a young woman I was married to a schizophrenic with paranoic features. As long as he self medicated with pot he was ok. The minute you added stress and lack of being high he was dangerous. Enough to have a judge commit him for 90 days. When he got out he parroted everything they taught him that was acceptable to say to be released.
So the mental health “expert” that was qualified to say he’s ok to release into society was wrong. He held me captive with a boot knife after that. He never owned a gun but his boot knife could have done the job.

Even my psych teacher admitted it. As much as psychiatrists like to tout their expertise, their only choice is to throw drugs at a chemically imbalanced brain and hope they are manipulating the right neuroreceptors. There are certain conditions that will never be “cured”. There are certain people that will never be ok in society.

So who’s gonna decide who’s safe and who’s not? Family members? Police? The psych community? Heaven forbid they have an ex gf or bf with an axe to grind. This is the gap in the solution to mental health targeting.
Are we going to violate rights on the JIC principle?
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Can someone show me how to install a bump stock on my Louisville slugger?
 
#231
#231
NurseGoodVol said:
How did we all the sudden end up on yard gnomes Septic. To be clear I was talking about faith in god. If you have some measure to prove he doesn’t exist, have at it. Lay it all out.
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That's just it, I'm not making a claim. I don't have any reason to suspect there are garden gnomes without evidence, why then would I have any reason to suspect there'd be an omnipotent, omniscient sky god without evidence?
 
#232
#232
Septic said:
Who is getting "shouted down"?

Keep trotting out words in the wake of tragedy and it becomes a broken record. People want action, not lip service.
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What immediate action are people hundreds of miles away supposed to take?
 
#236
#236
NurseGoodVol said:
How did we all the sudden end up on yard gnomes Septic. To be clear I was talking about faith in god. If you have some measure to prove he doesn’t exist, have at it. Lay it all out.
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Don't waste your time. Same ole song and dance with some. They will be the ones asking for it when they actually need it. Until then they will continue to mock. Just remember Matthew 5:11.
 
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#237
#237
Septic said:
Who is getting "shouted down"?

Keep trotting out words in the wake of tragedy and it becomes a broken record. People want action, not lip service.
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People arent "trotting out words" to fix anything, they are simply showing compassion in their own way for people. Not sure what the problem is with that other than you get some bad feelz about it.
 
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#239
#239
NurseGoodVol said:
You are talking about mental illness as if there is an on off switch. We confiscating knives, bats, tire irons too? They are all weapons and just as deadly as a bullet.
As a young woman I was married to a schizophrenic with paranoic features. As long as he self medicated with pot he was ok. The minute you added stress and lack of being high he was dangerous. Enough to have a judge commit him for 90 days. When he got out he parroted everything they taught him that was acceptable to say to be released.
So the mental health “expert” that was qualified to say he’s ok to release into society was wrong. He held me captive with a boot knife after that. He never owned a gun but his boot knife could have done the job.

Even my psych teacher admitted it. As much as psychiatrists like to tout their expertise, their only choice is to throw drugs at a chemically imbalanced brain and hope they are manipulating the right neuroreceptors. There are certain conditions that will never be “cured”. There are certain people that will never be ok in society.

So who’s gonna decide who’s safe and who’s not? Family members? Police? The psych community? Heaven forbid they have an ex gf or bf with an axe to grind. This is the gap in the solution to mental health targeting.
Are we going to violate rights on the JIC principle?
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People generally don't murder 12 folks at a night club with a tire iron.
 
#240
#240
InVOLuntary said:
Well duh, take all the guns. Except for the police. And, don't forget we need for the rich and famous to have their guns by proxy, you know, their security details.
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I own little guns and big guns and I'm a supporter of the 2a - that doesn't mean it couldn't be refined. That said, you went there first, not me. I don't know what actions could be taken, maybe nothing - but folks are getting tired of waking up to "breaking news" where another crowd of innocents was mowed down.
 
#241
#241
Let's see here.....

Pittsburgh synagogue shooting. Pennsylvania is a battleground state, Trump goes.

Parkland shooting. Florida is a battleground state, Trump goes.

Thousand Oaks shooting. Solid Dem state, nothing to be gained. Trump doesn't go.
 
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#242
#242
lawgator1 said:
Let's see here.....

Pittsburgh synagogue shooting. Pennsylvania is a battleground state, Trump goes.

Parkland shooting. Florida is a battleground state, Trump goes.

Thousand Oaks shooting. Solid Dem state, nothing to be gained. Trump doesn't go.
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To be fair he was busy not going to Arlington on Veterans day.
 
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#243
#243
Septic said:
That's just it, I'm not making a claim. I don't have any reason to suspect there are garden gnomes without evidence, why then would I have any reason to suspect there'd be an omnipotent, omniscient sky god without evidence?
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I’ll just throw this out and let you contemplate, I should have died when I broke my neck. My neurologist said he’d never seen anyone survive that kinda break. I guess his view was narrow, .003% survive it. Can you explain why I survived. I can’t. I can’t give you any statistic that made me more or less than anyone else able to survive it. Which really goes against my base nature I like facts a lot. A lot of what I do is statistically based practice in medicine.

So I just have faith there’s a reason I’m around. Maybe it’s to be a pain in your butt, maybe it’s to affect lives I touch at work. Maybe someone else can explain faith better to you. Like I said, no quantitative measure.
 
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#245
#245
Septic said:
I own little guns and big guns and I'm a supporter of the 2a - that doesn't mean it couldn't be refined. That said, you went there first, not me. I don't know what actions could be taken, maybe nothing - but folks are getting tired of waking up to "breaking news" where another crowd of innocents was mowed down.
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Which is the interesting part of the entire discussion. At least you re willing to admit you don't know what curbs this or even makes visable change. (I don't think you can totally prevent it) Not everyone is taking that approach.

My problem is those that want to throw "X" law at it, scream victory because we did something, and when "X" doesn't work we throw "Y" at it. Rinse and repeat.
 
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#246
#246
lawgator1 said:
People generally don't murder 12 folks at a night club with a tire iron.
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Should probably work on methods to keep the tire irons out of peoples hands who think murdering 12 people is the right answer to any question while not violating the constitutionally protected tire iron owning rights of the huge majority of the remaining people huh?
 
#247
#247
NurseGoodVol said:
I’ll just throw this out and let you contemplate, I should have died when I broke my neck. My neurologist said he’d never seen anyone survive that kinda break. I guess his view was narrow, .003% survive it. Can you explain why I survived. I can’t. I can’t give you any statistic that made me more or less than anyone else able to survive it. Which really goes against my base nature I like facts a lot. A lot of what I do is statistically based practice in medicine.

So I just have faith there’s a reason I’m around. Maybe it’s to be a pain in your butt, maybe it’s to affect lives I touch at work. Maybe someone else can explain faith better to you. Like I said, no quantitative measure.
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Luck occurred? By your physician's admission, 99.997% are killed. Is your assertion that all of those others lives lost or the lives they would have 'touched' less important than yours?

I'm glad that you find comfort in faith, despite you seemingly only pointing to anecdotal evidence in support of its root.
 
#248
#248
Septic said:
I own little guns and big guns and I'm a supporter of the 2a - that doesn't mean it couldn't be refined. That said, you went there first, not me. I don't know what actions could be taken, maybe nothing - but folks are getting tired of waking up to "breaking news" where another crowd of innocents was mowed down.
Click to expand...

So give me something. This guy used a "little gun". It's been reported that he used a high cap mag but what's that considered in California, anything over 10? If it was a high cap mag they are illegal in Cali anyway. He bought the gun legally. He was scrutinized by mental health officials and was given the all clear. That scrutiny is what the anti-gunners want. Every time these things happen, the immediate response is more gun control. It's a failed solution. All these people want to ban ARs and AKs. This shooting is a classic example of how that line of thinking won't work.

The sooner we come to grips that bad people do bad things and there's little we can do about it, the better off we'll be. Taking rights away from people because of the potential to do something bad is a very slippery slope. Does that mean I think it hopeless? No, I think we need to focus on the why people do these things instead of the tool they choose.

I think also we need to reduce the soft targets. Seems like most of these mass shootings are gun free zones or soft targets. Schools, churches, public events are often their target of choice. I think most of these people, while mentally deranged, are not stupid. They choose their targets based on their perception of least resistance. We make it easy for them to pick their targets imo.
 
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#250
#250
Septic said:
Luck occurred? By your physician's admission, 99.997% are killed. Is your assertion that all of those others lives lost or the lives they would have 'touched' less important than yours?

I'm glad that you find comfort in faith, despite you seemingly only pointing to anecdotal evidence in support of its root.
Click to expand...
So you believe in luck, non quantitative but not faith. Thank you.
 
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