Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

[jakez4ut]

All of that probably plays a part in it. Someone did say that Pruitt admitted that we ran too much on first down. I didn't hear it. But if that is the case, then he may not be inserting himself in the playcalling as much as he should. He doesn't have to call the actual play but at least talk about strategy.

i belive he did in yesterday's presser, and agree with the rest.

 

[Smokey123]

I think most "educated" fans know this is a 4 year rebuild. We won't know at least until year 3 at the latest if we got the right guy.

Yea I agree for the most part

 

[Aesius]

Yes, I agree to a point. As others have said in the past though, you can tell in the first two years just based off how the team plays. At some point, a coach has to win a toss up game.
That's why I thought Butch was going to be solid with the team's win against USC and performance against UGA in 2013. He outperformed. 2015 was ok,, and then the end of 2016 just fell apart. But, Pruitt has to beat a couple of Vandy, UK, Mizzou, SC the next two years to show he can coach.

We'll know a lot more after this season. Right now I'm worried we're going 3-9 and will still suck badly in 2019. But there's a chance the team isn't as bad as I think it is and we can actually win a couple of SEC games.

Even 5-7 would be pretty huge for this season, but 3-9 or 4-8 will leave me feeling like a bowl game will be out of reach next season as well. UK, Mizzou, and South Carolina are going to be decent for the foreseeable future, IMO. They have continuity and consistency now and are recruiting at an okay level. Vandy is still Vandy, but will probably beat us this year.

 

[31VFL]

Yikes. We might be looking at another 2011-2013 stretch of no bowl games. I don't know if there's enough patience in the program or among fans to give Pruitt enough time to truly rebuild.

Would be a disaster, which is par for the course anymore.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

 

[jakez4ut]

Which to me is idiotic. Have they not seen us play Florida the last 15 years? We play tight and almost always lose! Why not...oh my...do the opposite? Go crazy! Throw all caution to the wind! Run wildcats, reverses, wr throws...I cannot fathom how anyone would think calling a conservative, tight game was going to get us a win. I just can't.

to that point...it is a little disconcening that we have yet to have a coach on that sideline, save Lane Kiffin, that "got it" in regards to the games that matter to Tennessee. i'm not looking for someone to necessarily take to the level he did by calling out the coaches and what not.
and i'm not saying that Pruitt is in complete ignorance regarding it.

but i feel like there's some tone deafness when it comes to the relationship TN has had with some of these games, the Florida game in particular. we just keep finding ways to perpetuate the stigma.

would like for somoene to step on that like a bug, and acknowledge it. course, that's just me.

 

[Kingston Vol]

I think we all bought into Kiffin 100% because he was different.

Bought into Dooley 100% because we hated Kiffin so much.

Bought into Butch 70% but his salesman attitude and the legacy recruiting class got him to near 100% after his first season.

Hard to put a number on Pruitt, but it feels like he started out at about 80% because Fulmer hired him, then it moved down to 60% to start the season, and now it’s 50% due to two blowouts in games that were thought to be “toss ups.”

It’ll be interesting to see where he goes from here. Looking down the barrel of 5 straight losses. I supposed recruiting will have to carry him.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

The more I sit back and think about the state of the program, the more I come to the realization that it's just going to take longer to build this thing than I thought. They're going to have to build this thing from the inside out. I actually think we're decent at the skill positions, but we are so bad up front offensively it doesn't matter. Next year, I think we're going to have a lot of trouble on the defensive front. I think it's going to take a solid 3-4 years of recruiting, developing (as coaches as well), and having an elite strength and conditioning program to get us back in the hunt. Folks are just going to have to continue be patient. I'm still very high on Pruitt. I think he'll develop himself as a head coach, especially with Fulmer there to help him along. We need to forget about competing with your UGA's and Bama's of the conference right now. Sadly, the first step is surpassing Kentucky, Vanderbilt, South Carolina, and Missouri. I think if they play their cards right, we can be looking at a Clemson type rise if folks will buckle down and accept reality. This is what we are right now.

 

[jakez4ut]

@Kingston Vol to your question about pruitt and buy in or "show me"....i think there's a portion of the fan base that views pruitt as a complete 180 from butch jones, and that automatically = good. and that's fine, because to some degree, that's probably true.

there's antoher portion of the fan base that just has fatigue from the last decade, and it probably wouldn't matter who the coach was (save some big name coach) they'd be in "show me" mode.

 

[VolGee4]

We'll know a lot more after this season. Right now I'm worried we're going 3-9 and will still suck badly in 2019. But there's a chance the team isn't as bad as I think it is and we can actually win a couple of SEC games.

Even 5-7 would be pretty huge for this season, but 3-9 or 4-8 will leave me feeling like a bowl game will be out of reach next season as well. UK, Mizzou, and South Carolina are going to be decent for the foreseeable future, IMO. They have continuity and consistency now and are recruiting at an okay level. Vandy is still Vandy, but will probably beat us this year.

We will see. Not sure about Mizzou and UK. As I posted a page or two back, UK is still not recruiting that well. Maybe a few 4 stars a year. Mizzou loses Locke and Terry Beckner this year. It's all about the QB for them. Their recruiting has been worse than UK. No excuse not to start beating them again soon.

 

[Aesius]

The more I sit back and think about the state of the program, the more I come to the realization that it's just going to take longer to build this thing than I thought. They're going to have to build this thing from the inside out. I actually think we're decent at the skill positions, but we are so bad up front offensively it doesn't matter. Next year, I think we're going to have a lot of trouble on the defensive front. I think it's going to take a solid 3-4 years of recruiting, developing (as coaches as well), and having an elite strength and conditioning program to get us back in the hunt. Folks are just going to have to continue be patient. I'm still very high on Pruitt. I think he'll develop himself as a head coach, especially with Fulmer there to help him along. We need to forget about competing with your UGA's and Bama's of the conference right now. Sadly, the first step is surpassing Kentucky, Vanderbilt, South Carolina, and Missouri. I think if they play their cards right, we can be looking at a Clemson type rise if folks will buckle down and accept reality.

That's all assuming Pruitt is competent as a head coach and doesn't make some boneheaded mistake like Dooley (hiring Sal) or Jones (imploding the S&C program to appease a few players).

Really, the only thing that he can do right now is just recruit like a madman. And perhaps give his staff the time it needs to develop some continuity and consistency. I don't know how good our coaches are, but I hope he doesn't turn his staff positions into a revolving door of coaches. Even if guys aren't perhaps world-class coaches, we're probably better off right now giving the players 3-4 years of consistent coaching and systems rather than switching things up constantly looking for a magic bullet.

 

[jakez4ut]

I think we all bought into Kiffin 100% because he was different.

Bought into Dooley 100% because we hated Kiffin so much.

Bought into Butch 70% but his salesman attitude and the legacy recruiting class got him to near 100% after his first season.

Hard to put a number on Pruitt, but it feels like he started out at about 80% because Fulmer hired him, then it moved down to 60% to start the season, and now it’s 50% due to two blowouts in games that were thought to be “toss ups.”

It’ll be interesting to see where he goes from here. Looking down the barrel of 5 straight losses. I supposed recruiting will have to carry him.

the blow outs hurt, no doubt.

but i think we're fooling oursleves if we think most of this fan base really expected a whole lot from this team. the vast majority expected 5 to 7 wins this year. we're probably gonna wind up on the low end of that, unless something that seems unexpected right now, happens the rest of the way.

the off season was weird. we sort of talked ourselves in to believing something about this team that logically just wasn't true. but by game one, there were many, self included, that found a path to beating WVU and/or UF and being 3-1 or 4-0 headed to Athens.

throw the two blow outs in there, and all the sudden the "how we lost" starts to take it's toll and we're now overreacting to the other side of the spectrum 4 games in to the season.

when in reality, what's true today is as true as it was the day Pruitt took the job........

there is a talent defeicit, and it's going to take longer than 1 or 2 off seasons to fix it.

 

[JAllen18]

I think we all bought into Kiffin 100% because he was different.

Bought into Dooley 100% because we hated Kiffin so much.

Bought into Butch 70% but his salesman attitude and the legacy recruiting class got him to near 100% after his first season.

Hard to put a number on Pruitt, but it feels like he started out at about 80% because Fulmer hired him, then it moved down to 60% to start the season, and now it’s 50% due to two blowouts in games that were thought to be “toss ups.”

It’ll be interesting to see where he goes from here. Looking down the barrel of 5 straight losses. I supposed recruiting will have to carry him.

I think most people thought this year would be a struggle. As far as beating Florida, hard to blame Pruitt's coaching for 6 Turnovers.

 

[HankHill]

Which to me is idiotic. Have they not seen us play Florida the last 15 years? We play tight and almost always lose! Why not...oh my...do the opposite? Go crazy! Throw all caution to the wind! Run wildcats, reverses, wr throws...I cannot fathom how anyone would think calling a conservative, tight game was going to get us a win. I just can't.

I can see it. Their offense sucks and we basically shut them down outside of that 67 yard Catch and run. So don’t turn the ball over (obviously didn’t work) and have a good shot.

It was 23-3 close to halftime when we were driving. If we score right there then we got the ball at halftime and we’re down 13 and we have all the momentum. So as god awful as the first half was, it was still very much a game.

 

[Kingston Vol]

I think most people thought this year would be a struggle. As far as beating Florida, hard to blame Pruitt's coaching for 6 Turnovers.

I don’t think anyone is “out” on him because of it, but it set any good will he had built back to zero. Just my opinion.

 

[JAllen18]

That's all assuming Pruitt is competent as a head coach and doesn't make some boneheaded mistake like Dooley (hiring Sal) or Jones (imploding the S&C program to appease a few players).

Really, the only thing that he can do right now is just recruit like a madman. And perhaps give his staff the time it needs to develop some continuity and consistency. I don't know how good our coaches are, but I hope he doesn't turn his staff positions into a revolving door of coaches. Even if guys aren't perhaps world-class coaches, we're probably better off right now giving the players 3-4 years of consistent coaching and systems rather than switching things up constantly looking for a magic bullet.

Assuming coaching will be good - great..

Top 10 recruiting classes and continuity these next couple years, should have us 8-9 wins by year 3 and possibly competing for East by year 4 -5.

 

[Ron Swanson]

I think most people thought this year would be a struggle. As far as beating Florida, hard to blame Pruitt's coaching for 6 Turnovers.

However, we can blame him for not wearing enough orange.

 

[VolGee4]

I can see it. Their offense sucks and we basically shut them down outside of that 67 yard Catch and run. So don’t turn the ball over (obviously didn’t work) and have a good shot.

It was 23-3 close to halftime when we were driving. If we score right there then we got the ball at halftime and we’re down 13 and we have all the momentum. So as god awful as the first half was, it was still very much a game.

The problem is you have to forecast percentages and look ahead at play calling. "Don't turn the ball" over really means move the chains and get ahead of down and distances. I think most will agree that turnovers happen more often when you have to force a play (i.e. throw on 3rd and seven). The offensive staff didn't even try to mix it up. Run, run, and had to pass on third down.

Even if it doesn't work the first two series of the game, once you get down, you have to change it up. I just didn't understand not challenging their secondary all night. I would have preferred the Brady dink and dunk as opposed to forcing a RB off tackle every two downs. JMO.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

That's all assuming Pruitt is competent as a head coach and doesn't make some boneheaded mistake like Dooley (hiring Sal) or Jones (imploding the S&C program to appease a few players).

Really, the only thing that he can do right now is just recruit like a madman. And perhaps give his staff the time it needs to develop some continuity and consistency. I don't know how good our coaches are, but I hope he doesn't turn his staff positions into a revolving door of coaches. Even if guys aren't perhaps world-class coaches, we're probably better off right now giving the players 3-4 years of consistent coaching and systems rather than switching things up constantly looking for a magic bullet.

I'm just about to the point right now that I'm mainly going to be focusing on recruiting. Hopefully I can overlook how bad we're going to be on the field for the rest of this year. We're in real danger of only winning 3 or 4. This program right now is a steaming pile of suck. We have to buckle down and be patient as a fan base. Nobody is coming in here and winning 7 or 8 ball games with this group.

 

[SugarCC]

So..you think the staff is wrong for trying to force them to toughen up and do their freakin jobs...I disagree and I don't think there is a scheme out there that can work around this level of uselesness. Might as well just put your game in and make em learn to play it.

The night of the signing-day party, when Tyson Helton said we are going to line up and run the ball and play action, ALL of VolNation, and the fan base, were pumped out of our minds to hear that. We were so sick of seeing spread, shotgun, clap your hands...we were screaming for a straightforward attack. And now that Helton is giving us EXACTLY what we wanted, SOME are ready to run him out of town.

Not only are they trying to install a new offense, but a new identity/culture. This is who they want to be, who WE wanted them to be. Unfortunately, as my brother puts it, "you can't win the Kentucky Derby with a bunch of damn donkeys".

So, we have to ask ourselves: do we try something new to try and mask our flaws, with no guarantee of success, and get away from what we want this program and offense to be, going forward...
Or, do we stick to what we want to do, take our tail-kickings and lumps, to establish what Tennessee Football is going to be going forward, our foundation, our culture, lining up and running the football, and play-action...that's who Jeremy Pruitt and Tyson Helton want to be, and EXACTLY who we wanted them to be.

 

[jakez4ut]

The night of the signing-day party, when Tyson Helton said we are going to line up and run the ball and play action, ALL of VolNation, and the fan base, were pumped out of our minds to hear that. We were so sick of seeing spread, shotgun, clap your hands...we were screaming for a straightforward attack. And now that Helton is giving us EXACTLY what we wanted, SOME are ready to run him out of town.

Not only are they trying to install a new offense, but a new identity/culture. This is who they want to be, who WE wanted them to be. Unfortunately, as my brother puts it, "you can't win the Kentucky Derby with a bunch of damn donkeys".

So, we have to ask ourselves: do we try something new to try and mask our flaws, with no guarantee of success, and get away from what we want this program and offense to be, going forward...
Or, do we stick to what we want to do, take our tail-kickings and lumps, to establish what Tennessee Football is going to be going forward, our foundation, our culture, lining up and running the football, and play-action...that's who Jeremy Pruitt and Tyson Helton want to be, and EXACTLY who we wanted them to be.

tough pill to swallow, and i don't like it.

but i agree.

 

[SugarCC]

tough pill to swallow, and i don't like it.

but i agree.

Don't get me wrong, I do think we can throw some wrinkles in there; but, if we truly want to build a program, the foundation has to be laid, even if it means taking a beating to do it, until we can get the Wanya Morris' and Darnell Wright's and Jackson Lampley's in here.

 

[LA Vol]

Pruitt hired Helton because he trusted him to run the offense while he focused more on the defense. If he's gotten more hands-on, when that really isn't his forte, then the dynamic has changed. I'm sure there's a lot of tension right now, but I still don't give credence to the playsheet rumors. Can't keep things like that quiet with media people everywhere and cameras and binoculars pointed right at the sidelines. Just ask Pruitt's whiteboard.

 

[jakez4ut]

Don't get me wrong, I do think we can throw some wrinkles in there; but, if we truly want to build a program, the foundation has to be laid, even if it means taking a beating to do it, until we can get the Wanya Morris' and Darnell Wright's and Jackson Lampley's in here.

Nah I got what you were saying

 

[jjay2518]

The night of the signing-day party, when Tyson Helton said we are going to line up and run the ball and play action, ALL of VolNation, and the fan base, were pumped out of our minds to hear that. We were so sick of seeing spread, shotgun, clap your hands...we were screaming for a straightforward attack. And now that Helton is giving us EXACTLY what we wanted, SOME are ready to run him out of town.

Not only are they trying to install a new offense, but a new identity/culture. This is who they want to be, who WE wanted them to be. Unfortunately, as my brother puts it, "you can't win the Kentucky Derby with a bunch of damn donkeys".

So, we have to ask ourselves: do we try something new to try and mask our flaws, with no guarantee of success, and get away from what we want this program and offense to be, going forward...
Or, do we stick to what we want to do, take our tail-kickings and lumps, to establish what Tennessee Football is going to be going forward, our foundation, our culture, lining up and running the football, and play-action...that's who Jeremy Pruitt and Tyson Helton want to be, and EXACTLY who we wanted them to be.

Sounds eerily close to the Butch Jones mantra of a perfect offensive system that you force the wrong players into. It's the OL version of Justin Worley running a read option.