Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

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#23,576
#23,576
BruinVol said:
Such a comical post on so many fronts.

I know the game of football fine to say this coaching staff has a long way to go.

Now maybe they get there. It's certainly possible but foolishness and blindness won't make things like last night any more optimistic.

Sorry dude. Now take you bs lines and shove it up your...
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I agree, coaches still have a long way to go, absolutely. Not what we've been arguing, but...

Where I disagree is where you say you know the game of football fine.
 
#23,580
#23,580
nicksjuzunk said:
Well, the thrashing of the Vols was sufficient enough for my Liverpool, Saints, and Lions to get wins this weekend. I'd trade every single one for a TN win over Florida though.
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I hate where we are but ...

I remember Fulmer’s teams having very similar implosions against Florida during his tenure. Crap always happens to us in that game. Florida fans didn’t travel because they knew how this would end. Meanwhile, we (me included) keep setting ourselves up for a letdown.

Waaaay too early for anyone to be talking about his future. Like it or not, we need to see this one through. He needs as much time as it takes (I hate it too). This 3-4 years, coaching search, wash and repeat has killed this program.

We absolutely have the best fans in sports. 10 years of getting kicked in the teeth and we keep buying dentures.
 
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#23,584
#23,584
volatil said:
I hate where we are but ...

I remember Fulmer’s teams having very similar implosions against Florida during his tenure. Crap always happens to us in that game. Florida fans didn’t travel because they knew how this would end. Meanwhile, we (me included) keep setting ourselves up for a letdown.

Waaaay too early for anyone to be talking about his future. Like it or not, we need to see this one through. He needs as much time as it takes (I hate it too). This 3-4 years, coaching search, wash and repeat has killed this program.

We absolutely have the best fans in sports. 10 years of getting kicked in the teeth and we keep buying dentures.
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I agree he needs time but if you reverse that logic, should we have kept Dooley longer? What about Butch? I mean if after 4 years it's in a downward trend, you have to move on. Our mistakes haven't been when we've fired them it's who we've hired.
 
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#23,585
#23,585
VolGee4 said:
It’s not just the plays themselves. It’s what led up to them. Two straight runs put us at 3rd and 7. Then JG didn’t see the rush from the left.

Second one was after Smith’s penalty. Granted, that was on him. But then we called two designed QB runs. Then a screen pass where JG stared him down.

The safety is more about personnel. Why Jordan? Then, we weren’t blocking the dive play well anyway.

Also, we ran a toss sweep to London on 3rd and one before the Pope 4th down play. Again, personnel.
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3rd and 7 is a pretty common down lol. You’re gonna have those occasionally over the course of the game. We had an extra blocker there to pick up the blitz, he didn’t. JG didn’t recognize it or feel it. Not sure how that’s coaching.

I’m not gonna say something falls back on coaching Bc a certain player is in. Especially this early into a tenure. So Jordan being in, is what it is.

On the toss play... we hadn’t got a push all game on the interior line, so doing a quick toss there is fine with me. Once again i think London is good so that doesn’t matter.

I think it’s really easy to dog on Helton right now. He didn’t have a good game by any means but having a really bad OL and mediocre QB is a tough spot for any playcaller.
 
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#23,586
#23,586
InVOLuntary said:
The pass int that JG threw while wasn't directly it was a result of poor play calling on 1st and second down. The failure to tell sham to take a knee on the kickoff despite his failures to get any meaningful yardage to that point. Handing the ball off 6 yards deep in the end zone when with an online that can't help but give up the Los on about every play to a back who is notorious for dancing in the hole.
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So you’re blaming shamburger fumbling a kickoff on coaching....
 
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#23,587
#23,587
SugarCC said:
I have said it all night: yes, playcalling in some places was very puzzling, personnel choices, too; but, nowhere near the effect of turnovers or blocking. I don't believe in the playcall attributing to turnovers; yes, every so often a bad playcall can, but I believe it's rare. I believe in non-execution or great defensive plays leading to turnovers. If a defender makes a great play, that doesn't necessarily mean that the playcall was bad. If the QB throws it right to the defender, that doesn't necessarily mean the playcall was bad. If 5 Vols can't come down with an onside kick, over 1 Gator, that doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad call to do it.
Again, yes, coaching has to be better; but, not to the point that we need to debate it for as long as we have.
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Play calling was atrocious. 26/30 first down plays were run plays. That means nearly 87% of the time we ran the ball on first down.we ran the ball 68.35% of the time. Nearly 70% we ran the ball. I wish i knew the percentage of runs on 2nd down. I would guess around 65-70% of the time and then rapid drop to somewhere around 30% on third down. Thats not winning football games when we get 1-2 yards on 1st down and the same on second down. At best we are looking at 3rd and 6. Thats not going to cut it.
 
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#23,588
#23,588
Matthews' point on the onside on-side kick in the 2nd quarter was you were forfeiting field position in a field position game. In fact we held them to 3 & out after the on-side kick but we put our offense in the wrong endzone.

Paxton Brooks kickoff 14 yards to the UT49, on-side kick, recovered by UF Lamical Perine on UT49.
Feleipe Franks pass incomplete to Tyrie Cleveland, dropped pass.
Jordan Scarlett rush for 4 yards to the UT45 (Kyle Phillips).
Jordan Scarlett rush for 1 yard to the UT44 (Shy Tuttle;Will Ignont).
Tommy Townsend punt 42 yards to the UT2, downed.
Tim Jordan rush for no gain to the UT2 (Tedarrell Slaton).
Tim Jordan rush for loss of 2 yards to the UT0 (CeCe Jefferson;Adam Shuler), CeCe Jefferson safety, clock 11:03.
Paxton Brooks kickoff 68 yards to the UF12, Kadarius Toney return 23 yards to the UF35 (Theo Jackson).
Feleipe Franks pass complete to Freddie Swain for 65 yards to the UT0, 1ST DOWN UF, TOUCHDOWN, clock 10:42.
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While CDM has a much wider audience than me, and (sorry) a likely more significant one, I think there may be another way to look at this. According to Advanced Football Analytics the success rate for an on-side kick in the NFL is 20% but if the on-side kick is unexpected the success rate jumps to 60%.

The catch is that teams can’t do this very often. The key is that the onside attempt is unexpected. As soon as a team is known for sneaky onside kicks, its success rate will go down. But this isn’t such a bad thing. As opponents are forced to respect the threat of an onside kick, their normal kick return blocking will suffer, allowing overall net kickoff distance to improve. Ultimately, there would be an equilibrium, making life more difficult for the receiving team.
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Advanced Football Analytics (formerly Advanced NFL Stats): Onside Kicks

I guess my point is there was maybe a 60% chance the on-side kick in the 2nd quarter would have worked. It didn't so we're living in the 40% aftermath. We're finding fault with the players and with the coaches but really it's the darn math we should be pissed at. jmo.
 
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#23,589
#23,589
HankHill said:
So you’re blaming shamburger fumbling a kickoff on coaching....
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Absolutely. If it was his first time bringing it out it would be different but he kept bringing it despite not reaching the 25. The coaches should have told him to quit bringing it out.
 
#23,591
#23,591
InVOLuntary said:
Dude, you've been roasted all night. There's been numerous examples how the coaches didn't help out our players but your answer always falls back to lack of execution. That's a lazy excuse. Whose responsible for teaching the players how to execute? The coaches. This team isn't appreciably better at any position group than it was under Butch last year.

Look, I'm happy that you can buy in on another coach that hasn't proven a thing. Your blind optimism is great. Do I think Pruitt is destined to fail? Absolutely not. Am I heeding for him? Absolutely. But, I'm not buying, blindly into a coach anymore. He's gonna have to prove it to me. To this point I've seen very little to make me believe he's the guy but I'm not ready to give up on him. He is literally doing on the job training.
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Numerous examples from the likes of you and Bruin. Again, *insert Charlie Murphy laughing gif*
But, I will admit, it's my fault. I should've stopped reading at, "lack of execution is a lazy excuse". Words of football wisdom. And you believe I'm the one being roasted.

Football 101 for you idiots: throughout practice week, a coach coaches and teaches how to execute. On game day, once the player hits the field, it is on the player to take with him what he has learned, and execute.

Unless you believe Pruitt and Co to be failing during the week? They put Shamburger back there because they believe he gives the best chance for success (maybe you believe this to be a wrong decision?) They coach him up, coach him up....when Shamburger hits the playing field, it's on HIM, not the coaches, to hang onto the ball...to execute. But you don't like that word.
 
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#23,592
#23,592
HankHill said:
So you’re blaming shamburger fumbling a kickoff on coaching....
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From what I've seen so far regarding Shamburger returning kicks, the arguement is whose bright idea was that? It's not so much that he fumbled but is he really your best kick returner? Some people obviously think the answer is no., at least not in their opinion. Who really knows?
 
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#23,594
#23,594
InVOLuntary said:
Dude, you've been roasted all night. There's been numerous examples how the coaches didn't help out our players but your answer always falls back to lack of execution. That's a lazy excuse. Whose responsible for teaching the players how to execute? The coaches. This team isn't appreciably better at any position group than it was under Butch last year.

Look, I'm happy that you can buy in on another coach that hasn't proven a thing. Your blind optimism is great. Do I think Pruitt is destined to fail? Absolutely not. Am I heeding for him? Absolutely. But, I'm not buying, blindly into a coach anymore. He's gonna have to prove it to me. To this point I've seen very little to make me believe he's the guy but I'm not ready to give up on him. He is literally doing on the job training.
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Every word of this.

I'm dumbfounded at how so many people are convinced "he's the guy". I don't see how it can be anything beyond "wait and see" at best. I've seen two bad losses, an a couple of fair performances against the worst teams every to come into Neyland.

I also am ready to admit I have no clue how to judge a head coach that is not Meyer, Petersen, or Saban.

No
Clue
 
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#23,596
#23,596
ChattaTNVol said:
From what I've seen so far regarding Shamburger returning kicks, the arguement is whose bright idea was that? It's not so much that he fumbled but is he really your best kick returner? Some people obviously think the answer is no., at least not in their opinion. Who really knows?
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Yea that’s fair but it’s not like we have Cordarelle Patterson back there not getting kickoffs... no one really knows so maybe he is our best idk.
 
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#23,597
#23,597
SugarCC said:
Numerous examples from the likes of you and Bruin. Again, *insert Charlie Murphy laughing gif*
But, I will admit, it's my fault. I should've stopped reading at, "lack of execution is a lazy excuse". Words of football wisdom. And you believe I'm the one being roasted.

Football 101 for you idiots: throughout practice week, a coach coaches and teaches how to execute. On game day, once the player hits the field, it is on the player to take with him what he has learned, and execute.

Unless you believe Pruitt and Co to be failing during the week? They put Shamburger back there because they believe he gives the best chance for success (maybe you believe this to be a wrong decision?) They coach him up, coach him up....when Shamburger hits the playing field, it's on HIM, not the coaches, to hang onto the ball...to execute. But you don't like that word.
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So this all started because I said DM said that Pruitt and company was out coached by Mullen. So I ask you these questions:

Which team was better prepared?
Which team had the better game plan?
Which team executed their game plan better?

I mean you are the coaching guru. Enlighten me.


What really puzzles me is how folks can place all the blame on 18-22 yo that are part time football players, that play for a scholarship, that bleed and sweat on the field and coaches that make $5 million/yr are somehow immune to criticism.
 
#23,599
#23,599
InVOLuntary said:
Dude, you've been roasted all night. There's been numerous examples how the coaches didn't help out our players but your answer always falls back to lack of execution. That's a lazy excuse. Whose responsible for teaching the players how to execute? The coaches. This team isn't appreciably better at any position group than it was under Butch last year.

Look, I'm happy that you can buy in on another coach that hasn't proven a thing. Your blind optimism is great. Do I think Pruitt is destined to fail? Absolutely not. Am I heeding for him? Absolutely. But, I'm not buying, blindly into a coach anymore. He's gonna have to prove it to me. To this point I've seen very little to make me believe he's the guy but I'm not ready to give up on him. He is literally doing on the job training.
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We clearly were able to throw the ball with decent success against Florida early on. Guys were getting wide open on some nice routes. What do we do? Run up the gut twice, throw on third and long and JG is pressured and throws ints/fumbles. Some self awareness that we don't have Alabama caliber players and that we should call plays that favor these guys would be nice. We should also abandon the run almost completely. We couldn't run on ETSU, we're not running on SEC teams.
 
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