QB job is Keller Chryst's to lose going into 2nd scrimmage

#101
#101
k-town_king said:
He is not pro KC. Just anti JG. He latched on to Dormady. Disappeared when he left. Now it alternates between Shrout and KC depending on which one looks to have the best chance to beat JG out at the moment.
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Nope. That is false in every respect. Like this year, I just tried to read the tea leaves last year as the season approached. You hated it because I recognized the TRUTH... that QD had beaten JG out.

I am pro JG because I believe he gives us he best chance to win.
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Based on your observation of practice and coaching expertise? LOL... no. Based on nothing but your bias.

I have given scientific reasoning for my belief in JG being the best option.
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Nope. You have thrown stats out that you think support your bias and refuse to consider any that mitigate against it... like the failure to win games... like taking sacks by being indecisive... like the O being limited because he couldn't handle a bigger package... like him being protected by simple reads and short passes much of the time.

The only thing that is "scientifically" demonstrable is that you refuse to see any weakness in JG.
SEC qbs need to be accurate, take care of the ball, be able to make many types of throws, and go downfield when needed. He gives the best combination of these traits based on all available data IMO.
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Nope. The available data includes what he did last year which was NOT good enough to win games. No. A QB doesn't win or lose a game by himself though you come real close to suggesting JG "will". But opposing DC's look at the threat presented by a QB and ESPECIALLY his mastery of the O and decision making.
 
#102
#102
sjt18 said:
Where have I done anything BUT qualify that report as "if true"? Maybe because you are offended by anything that doesn't support what you want to believe?

I "want to hear" that one of these guys has stepped up and taken the job. Do you? Or only if it is "Guarantano has stepped up and taken the job"? Can you honestly say that you haven't attached your ego to JG?

I can honestly say that I can happily pull for either guy... and just as happily criticize their shortcomings. All other things being equal... I'd actually rather it be JG if he's grown up emotionally and mastered decision making and management of the O. He has the better arm. He appears to have the better accuracy at least in routes on air. The players apparently like him. He is tough though I think UT and he would be better off if he didn't prove it quite so often. There's a ton PHYSICALLY to like about JG. But the things he has lacked are things that will cost the team wins.
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That's a whole lot of words to say you still won't believe he has matured until game time, while campaigning that he won't or cant get it right. Every post by you has a qualifier for plausible deniability, but it is plain to see who you want to win by the way you discredit any positive news about JG, yet tout Chryst as the best guy available when JG cant get the mental aspect. You have hung so much of your claim on his inability to mature when there is absolutely no evidence that he has not matured, or can't. Yet that's the first three paragraphs of any comment by you. Just admit your bias is all.
 
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#104
#104
sjt18 said:
Nope. That is false in every respect. Like this year, I just tried to read the tea leaves last year as the season approached. You hated it because I recognized the TRUTH... that QD had beaten JG out.

Based on your observation of practice and coaching expertise? LOL... no. Based on nothing but your bias.

Nope. You have thrown stats out that you think support your bias and refuse to consider any that mitigate against it... like the failure to win games... like taking sacks by being indecisive... like the O being limited because he couldn't handle a bigger package... like him being protected by simple reads and short passes much of the time.

The only thing that is "scientifically" demonstrable is that you refuse to see any weakness in JG.

Nope. The available data includes what he did last year which was NOT good enough to win games. No. A QB doesn't win or lose a game by himself though you come real close to suggesting JG "will". But opposing DC's look at the threat presented by a QB and ESPECIALLY his mastery of the O and decision making.
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The reason no one post stats or wins as a qb stat is beacuse they are not. All the avablabe data says JG is more accurate on longer passes. Both he and KC took care of the ball at the same rate. JG faced much tough competition too. While being a freshman compared to KC who was a JR.

Throw in Shrout too. The data says he was the worst of the three at the things being discussed. 51% with a 1/1 td int ratio. JG much more accurate, much better taking care of the ball. Face SEC teams vs high school teams.

One player, who faced the best competition, took care of the ball best and was the most accurate.

sjt18 said:
Nope. Not what I said. Read it again in context. IF JG has not caught up in the mental part of the game and assuming Shrout has a normal learning curve... he will pass JG before next fall. I know you can't bring yourself to admit JG has any weaknesses but he was behind where he should have been last fall... and his problems are not physical. Physically, he is as good as any I've seen since at least Bray... maybe Manning.

Just did but in short... it isn't as much a matter of Shrout doing something extraordinary but the potential that JG could fail to develop that aspect of the game as required.


Being QB REQUIRES good decision making and game management. JG has left lots of questions in that regard. He does well against air but under game pressure last year and according to this report in live scrimmage work this past weekend... he's indecisive or else fails to make the right reads.

Did you ignore what I posted above about sacks? JG took 26 in 6 games. You can say "OL"... but that doesn't excuse him for holding the ball too long as he did MANY times. If he had thrown 20 of those away rather than taking the sack... he would have saved a lot of yardage, a lot of hits on his body, and.... would have a completion % in the range of QD and KC who you condemn. NOT taking sacks is a HUGE part of game management for a QB.


IF we were assuming no improvement by either guy... then UT has BIG problems. So when we get reports that progress has been made, that's meaningful. But when we get reports that problems have shown up again... that's even more meaningful. That's true of either guy. You just won't admit that it is true of JG.
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Sacks aren't a qb stat. If you want to throw in sacks to artificially lower his accuracy then raise it due to pressure forcing bad passes. It all evens out. I'm sure KC and QD with the healthier line didn't get pressured as much. There is no way to accurately adjust percentages based on what was whose fault.

You must be ignoring the multiple reports of JG getting better at the issues you are bashing him on while also being way, way, way ahead of Shrout in those areas. So you are saying Shrout is going to do something extraordinary by not only catching, but passing JG who himself keeps improving.

If they continue on a normal "development curve" then JG will continue to be light years ahead of him in dm and gm.

He did hold onto the ball too long last year. I don't think I nor anyone else has said different. The reports out of camp say he has greatly improved in maturity and getting rid of the ball. Maybe its time to change your narrative around JG, All the people covering the team seem to disagree with your assessments.
 
#110
#110
Y'all don't know about the double top secret practice camp Helton has been running after Phil found an NCAA eligibility loophole?

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#114
#114
I think JG pulling away from Keller would be the best possible outcome for this year and the years to follow but who know what Pruitt will do. If (big if!) Keller does look better then Pruitt (who apparently loves the arm on Shrout) might be inclined to just go with who gives us the best chance to win right now and deal with the fallout next year.

If I was making that decision, JG would have to be soundly out-gunned before he lost the starting slot. If it is even debatable, I would give JG the chance to lead us out. Either way, GBO and I hope they are all better than "serviceable" this year.
 
#115
#115
k-town_king said:
The reason no one post stats or wins as a qb stat is beacuse they are not.
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Yeah. Actually wins are one of the KEY things QB's are evaluated on. Do you really not know that? That, total O, and points produced are measures of a QB's game management ability. And since you bring it up... UT avg'd an anemic 18 ppg in JG's starts. Total O? UT had less than 300 yds in 5 of JG's 6 starts... after starting with 4 straight games over 300 behind QD before the UGA collapse.

UT was last in the SEC in total O last year at 291 ypg. In 5 of JG's six starts... UT's total O was below 291 yds. UT only managed 210 yds vs So Miss.

And you really don't see why people might be skeptical of JG and his ability to lead the team?


Of course this "scientific evidence" doesn't matter because it doesn't support your narrative, right?

All the avablabe data says JG is more accurate on longer passes. Both he and KC took care of the ball at the same rate. JG faced much tough competition too. While being a freshman compared to KC who was a JR.
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All of that is debatable except that you continue to ignore the sacks JG took. Taking 26 sacks in just half a season played is HUGE. That's over 50 sacks in a full season. Idaho was the worst at allowing sacks in FBS last year... and had 50 sacks allowed.

Throw in Shrout too. The data says he was the worst of the three at the things being discussed. 51% with a 1/1 td int ratio. JG much more accurate, much better taking care of the ball. Face SEC teams vs high school teams.
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LOL@U. You can't apply HS stats to college. Too many non-transferrable factors. I don't think Shrout is ready. But based on what has been said... it is pretty obvious that the coaches really like him.

One player, who faced the best competition, took care of the ball best and was the most accurate.
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…. who failed to throw the ball away which skewed his "accuracy" and could not lead his teams to wins. The QB's ability to manage the O is essential to offensive performance.



Sacks aren't a qb stat. If you want to throw in sacks to artificially lower his accuracy then raise it due to pressure forcing bad passes. It all evens out. I'm sure KC and QD with the healthier line didn't get pressured as much. There is no way to accurately adjust percentages based on what was whose fault.
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Yes. They really are when the QB has a KNOWN AND UNDENIABLE flaw of holding the ball too long. Why can't you just admit that weakness? We can flip that proof too. In Dooley's first year, Simms started the first few games. The OL was lambasted for all the sacks allowed but like JG Simms held the ball too long. Enter Bray... and all of a sudden you have a guy who reads the D and gets the ball out and sacks go to nil.

You must be ignoring the multiple reports of JG getting better at the issues you are bashing him on while also being way, way, way ahead of Shrout in those areas. So you are saying Shrout is going to do something extraordinary by not only catching, but passing JG who himself keeps improving.
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I am ignoring nothing... including your denial that JG has any weakness and your GENUINE bashing of anyone who competes with him.

If they continue on a normal "development curve" then JG will continue to be light years ahead of him in dm and gm.
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Through our last real proof which was an embarrassing loss against Vandy who had one of the worst D's in the conference leading into the game... JG was still well behind the curve. His decision making was not good. He started out red hot but starting with the 3rd and 4th possession Vandy began to get pressure and JG became ineffective as did the whole O he was supposed to be managing.

He did hold onto the ball too long last year. I don't think I nor anyone else has said different. The reports out of camp say he has greatly improved in maturity and getting rid of the ball. Maybe its time to change your narrative around JG, All the people covering the team seem to disagree with your assessments.
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No. "All" those covering the team do not "disagree". They've had two opportunities to get a good read on it. One was the open practice which was light work. The other was the mixed reports coming out of the scrimmage. One of us is trying to convince themselves that they KNOW things that we just don't have the information to KNOW... and it ain't me. I am simply pointing to reports on BOTH QB's that raise serious concerns. The ones concerning JG are even more bothersome because IF TRUE they represent a continuation of issues that have held him back since he first began to compete with QD for the job.
 
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#116
#116
Any and all opinions right now mean nothing. Competition, not to be the best of the worst, but true competition of legit QB's is what we need. Pruitt will play the best, regardless of if QB's transferred in or is legacy player. I'm thinking that unless Chryst is obviously better, then it's going to be JG, at least to start the season.
 
#120
#120
None of you guys will get to decide who the QB will be. Pruitt is on top of this one. LOL
 
#121
#121
BloomuVol said:
That's a whole lot of words to say you still won't believe he has matured until game time, while campaigning that he won't or cant get it right.
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Where have I said that? Almost every time I've mentioned it... I've expressed hope that he has or will overcome his issues. He has GREAT physical talent.

Every post by you has a qualifier for plausible deniability, but it is plain to see who you want to win by the way you discredit any positive news about JG,
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Nope. Every post has a qualifier that I don't know what I don't know.... that there isn't enough information to make a conclusion... that there are plenty of questions about both guys.
yet tout Chryst as the best guy available when JG cant get the mental aspect.
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Why are you lying to yourself? Where did I say KC was the best guy available? I haven't. Not even close. I have concerns about him too. I just know JG's liabilities more than KC's. If KC becomes the starter because he's that much better of a game manager than JG... then he REALLY has to improve his consistency. He throws some good balls then he goes completely wild and misses the receiver by a mile. In the routes on air, you can see receivers having to bend and contort their bodies to catch his passes. That's not good. That's how you get guys injured. That won't hold up in game time. Unless his concentration gets better in live play (some guys do)… I have just as many concerns about his flaws as JG's.
You have hung so much of your claim on his inability to mature when there is absolutely no evidence that he has not matured, or can't. Yet that's the first three paragraphs of any comment by you. Just admit your bias is all.
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Saying "IF" someone has not matured is not the same as claiming they have not. BUT... YOU and folks like you keep claiming "proof" that he has matured without seeing him tested. This report is concerning in that regard. IF he did get hard coaching and didn't respond well... and especially if that hard coaching was because he held the ball too long... that does NOT bode well for him or by extension UT.

Let me say this again, IF KC is as wild with the ball as he seems to be at times that is still a potential huge problem even if he's the better game manager and decision maker... and by enough that it makes him the better QB.

I can be honest about the weaknesses of both guys. When a choice is made, I can pull for either guy without hesitation or bias... can you? Or will you do what k-town did last year and actively pull against the QB if it isn't JG?
 
#122
#122
vols-1 said:
JG lost it last year.
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Just rewatched the offense vs Vandy. The first two drives by JG were as good as you will ever see. I think he was 7 of 8 with over 100 yds and absolutely shredded Vandy's D. Vandy's D was awful... but it was still a great performance. Every pass was all but perfectly placed. The problems came after Vandy adjusted and UT couldn't because JG's knowledge and decision making forced them to simplify the O. It was reported repeatedly that UT had done that when JG became the starter. I think they reduced it even more when McBride started vs Mizzou. But after Vandy got a little pressure on UT... the O disappeared. He went 7 for 14 I think for the remainder of the game for less than 80 yards. The run game went nowhere. He was sacked several times. It is the kind of thing that happens when your QB doesn't have a great grasp of the system and your coaching staff doesn't trust his decisions.

McBride was a true Fr and 3rd team. JG was a 2nd year player who had competed for the starting job through spring and August. He should have been further along. Now he's had to restart in a new system. Maybe that will help him. But the safe bet would be that he had a whole new learning curve. He better be ahead rather than behind it this time if he wants to start.
 
#123
#123
PS- I'm trying to find some representative games to watch to learn more about KC. I can't. Performance wise his games were all over the place. In consecutive games last year, he completed 71% of his passes vs Oregon then 49% the next week vs Oregon State. If he's not more consistent than his stats look or doesn't improve... that's pretty worrisome too.
 
#124
#124
sjt18 said:
Just rewatched the offense vs Vandy. The first two drives by JG were as good as you will ever see. I think he was 7 of 8 with over 100 yds and absolutely shredded Vandy's D. Vandy's D was awful... but it was still a great performance. Every pass was all but perfectly placed. The problems came after Vandy adjusted and UT couldn't because JG's knowledge and decision making forced them to simplify the O. It was reported repeatedly that UT had done that when JG became the starter. I think they reduced it even more when McBride started vs Mizzou. But after Vandy got a little pressure on UT... the O disappeared. He went 7 for 14 I think for the remainder of the game for less than 80 yards. The run game went nowhere. He was sacked several times. It is the kind of thing that happens when your QB doesn't have a great grasp of the system and your coaching staff doesn't trust his decisions.

McBride was a true Fr and 3rd team. JG was a 2nd year player who had competed for the starting job through spring and August. He should have been further along. Now he's had to restart in a new system. Maybe that will help him. But the safe bet would be that he had a whole new learning curve. He better be ahead rather than behind it this time if he wants to start.
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Was that really anything to do with Guarantano? They had those same issues with Dobbs and Worley.
 
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#125
#125
sjt18 said:
Yeah. Actually wins are one of the KEY things QB's are evaluated on. Do you really not know that? That, total O, and points produced are measures of a QB's game management ability. And since you bring it up... UT avg'd an anemic 18 ppg in JG's starts. Total O? UT had less than 300 yds in 5 of JG's 6 starts... after starting with 4 straight games over 300 behind QD before the UGA collapse.

UT was last in the SEC in total O last year at 291 ypg. In 5 of JG's six starts... UT's total O was below 291 yds. UT only managed 210 yds vs So Miss.

And you really don't see why people might be skeptical of JG and his ability to lead the team?


Of course this "scientific evidence" doesn't matter because it doesn't support your narrative, right?

All of that is debatable except that you continue to ignore the sacks JG took. Taking 26 sacks in just half a season played is HUGE. That's over 50 sacks in a full season. Idaho was the worst at allowing sacks in FBS last year... and had 50 sacks allowed.

LOL@U. You can't apply HS stats to college. Too many non-transferrable factors. I don't think Shrout is ready. But based on what has been said... it is pretty obvious that the coaches really like him.

…. who failed to throw the ball away which skewed his "accuracy" and could not lead his teams to wins. The QB's ability to manage the O is essential to offensive performance.



Yes. They really are when the QB has a KNOWN AND UNDENIABLE flaw of holding the ball too long. Why can't you just admit that weakness? We can flip that proof too. In Dooley's first year, Simms started the first few games. The OL was lambasted for all the sacks allowed but like JG Simms held the ball too long. Enter Bray... and all of a sudden you have a guy who reads the D and gets the ball out and sacks go to nil.

I am ignoring nothing... including your denial that JG has any weakness and your GENUINE bashing of anyone who competes with him.

Through our last real proof which was an embarrassing loss against Vandy who had one of the worst D's in the conference leading into the game... JG was still well behind the curve. His decision making was not good. He started out red hot but starting with the 3rd and 4th possession Vandy began to get pressure and JG became ineffective as did the whole O he was supposed to be managing.


No. "All" those covering the team do not "disagree". They've had two opportunities to get a good read on it. One was the open practice which was light work. The other was the mixed reports coming out of the scrimmage. One of us is trying to convince themselves that they KNOW things that we just don't have the information to KNOW... and it ain't me. I am simply pointing to reports on BOTH QB's that raise serious concerns. The ones concerning JG are even more bothersome because IF TRUE they represent a continuation of issues that have held him back since he first began to compete with QD for the job.
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First of all for the millionth time everyone knows JG held on to the ball too long last year. The reports also say he has fixed that flaw. So what else?

Second. By Vandy he was running the whole offense. He was passing downfield more than QD. Also 154.5 rating vs Vandy, an SEC team. The only team QD even had over a 135 rating was Indiana State.

You do realize that the one time Dormady faced a decent team we got shut out 41-0 right? In a game JG was 6/7.
JG performed better and played better competition than him minus the azz kicking Dormady got by UGA. Who played most of the game vs SM? What did JG do before he left the game? Come on stop trying to twist things to make JG look bad.

So what stat site is there that I can go to that shows offensive ypg, sacks, record etc under the qb's stats? I'll save you the time. NONE. They aren't qb stats. If they are Jalen Hurts is the greatest college qb of the last 20 years. They are irrelevant.

Based on what has been said the coaches really like the top three qbs. They really like Maurer. Shrout has a long way to go to. Accuracy and taking care of the ball do translate. In fact Shrout has been having issues with them in practice. Its not a coincidence.
 
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