Can Someone Remind Me Why We Are So Worried About WVU Again?!?

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

Maybe something here will jog your memory OP. ...

The good news is that we return a lot of players. The bad news is, well, the same ... hope that helps.

Sigh!

 

[Pruitt Will Do It]

I think we are undefeated going into the Georgia game, after that who knows.

Your mouth to God's ear Hopefully 4-0 would get Tennessee into the #20-#25 range in the rankings

 

[sjt18]

I'm trying to be optimistic about this one, but I cant do it. Maybe last year scarred me, really the last ten. I think it gets ugly for UT.

That's an easy choice and you're entitled to it. Don't get your hopes up and you won't be disappointed.

I would just suggest that you look at their talent. IMO recruiting rankings when applied to specific players have a somewhat significant margin of error. A 3* can easily have 5* talent or grow into it. A 5* can dominate in HS, get good marketing, fool the evaluators, and be a complete bust. BUT.... average out over a whole class or better yet 4 or 5 classes... the average player ranking begins to far more reflect the talent on a roster.

Over the last 4 classes, WVU has signed 11 4* players, 65 3* players, 16 2*, and 2 unranked guys not counting a kicker. (I used Rivals because it is easier but suspect 247's composite is similar) That is a 2.94 star average.

During the same period, UT has signed 5 5* players, 42 4* players, 49 3* players, 5 2* players (including LS), and one guy (George) who came in unranked. That's a 3.43 average.

Over that spread of players... that is a significant raw talent advantage. For perspective sake, they recruit at a similar level to Vandy, UK, or Mizzou. So we know that if UT is poorly coached... the talent advantage won't matter. If they're coached well... it should matter A LOT.

 

[Pruitt Will Do It]

That's an easy choice and you're entitled to it. Don't get your hopes up and you won't be disappointed.

I would just suggest that you look at their talent. IMO recruiting rankings when applied to specific players have a somewhat significant margin of error. A 3* can easily have 5* talent or grow into it. A 5* can dominate in HS, get good marketing, fool the evaluators, and be a complete bust. BUT.... average out over a whole class or better yet 4 or 5 classes... the average player ranking begins to far more reflect the talent on a roster.

Over the last 4 classes, WVU has signed 11 4* players, 65 3* players, 16 2*, and 2 unranked guys not counting a kicker. (I used Rivals because it is easier but suspect 247's composite is similar) That is a 2.94 star average.

During the same period, UT has signed 5 5* players, 42 4* players, 49 3* players, 5 2* players (including LS), and one guy (George) who came in unranked. That's a 3.43 average.

Over that spread of players... that is a significant raw talent advantage. For perspective sake, they recruit at a similar level to Vandy, UK, or Mizzou. So we know that if UT is poorly coached... the talent advantage won't matter. If they're coached well... it should matter A LOT.

West Virginia would be like Arkansas in the SEC and North Carolina State in the ACC.

 

[Bubbs]

Tennessee has a virtually winless record against the Big 10/12 over the last twenty years. teams such as Kansas State, Oklahoma, and former members Missouri and Nebraska virtually swept TN when they were part of that conference and afterwards in the case of the Tigers. Grier is a pre-season Heisman frontrunner, and as usual the TN fanbase has been writing checks and expecting the players to cash them with their on-field results. If you think positive remarks reach players and recruits, you better believe all the low-brow ad hominem attacks against the state and its fanbase have reached the attention of the West Virginia contingent. But by all means keep that up.

I'm pretty sure we just smacked both Northwestern and Nebraska in recent years.

 

[sjt18]

I'm pretty sure we just smacked both Northwestern and Nebraska in recent years.

This sort of has that Northwestern/Iowa feel to it for me. Maybe more Iowa. They had a better record but you could see the weakness if you looked a couple of levels deeper. Everyone was talking about them having their "system" in place and how recruited talent didn't matter. UT physically dominated them even with Jones as HC.

 

[sjt18]

West Virginia would be like Arkansas in the SEC and North Carolina State in the ACC.

I still think UK or Mizzou make a better comparison though Mizzou gets more NFL caliber players.

 

[butchna]

Tennessee has a virtually winless record against the Big 10/12 over the last twenty years. teams such as Kansas State, Oklahoma, and former members Missouri and Nebraska virtually swept TN when they were part of that conference and afterwards in the case of the Tigers. Grier is a pre-season Heisman frontrunner, and as usual the TN fanbase has been writing checks and expecting the players to cash them with their on-field results. If you think positive remarks reach players and recruits, you better believe all the low-brow ad hominem attacks against the state and its fanbase have reached the attention of the West Virginia contingent. But by all means keep that up.

Maybe if this message board as a collective can start regaling that majestic state and it’s dentally flourishing citizens with 24/7 accolades. Think they’d call the dogs off?

 

[stevenrich2003]

Honestly coming off of the worst season in our teams history..... We have no clue what we are going to look like. I know that Saban only won 6 games in his first year at Bama. Kirby only one 8 games in his first season at Georgia. If we can do either one I will be happy.

 

[butchna]

"veteran coaching staff"
-HC has never been a HC before
-DC has never been a DC before
-RB coach is a QB
-I don't think our OC or DB coach has ever coached in the SEC (yah but...)
-this is every coaches first time working at UT
-this is the first time the coaching staff has all worked together, several shared stops along the way, but not like this.

to the rest. our best player Trey Smith can't have any contact yet and is coming off some major medical issues. We have 1 returning starter in the secondary. completely new offensive and defensive schemes. on the defensive side we have experimented with before and saw it wasn't a game one light switch. we dont have a proven QB, our O-line, even with Smith, is at best questionable and learning a new blocking scheme. in the secondary we are hoping some freshmen players recruited at WR will play major roles at corner.

even saying all of that I don't think we get blown out, I see us losing, but I think it will be close with us having a shot. But to pretend that we shouldn't be worried or at least admit there are causes for concern is foolish and why people freak out so much on here.

You “freak out” when your football team loses a game? You’re doing it wrong.

 

[Bubbs]

We won 4 games because of injuries. #1 QB hurt first game. Played hurt a few games and got shut down. #2 QB gets hurt. Has to play through it. #1 WR. Hurt first game. out for season. #1MLB out for season.TKJR out for season. Injuries at CB led to freshman starting. 4 of top 5 O lineman out for season. I think we were playing hurt players just because we had nobody left. D Lineman couldn't stay healthy. Kendal Vickers was starting because Shy was recovering and McKenzie kept getting hurt. He was the only one who could stay healthy. Colton Jumper was a walk on. OLBs were hurt every other game. Even the kickers and return guys were hurt almost all year. lol. We didn't win 4 games cause we sucked. That was because of injuries. That piece of it is pretty obvious. I don't think any other team was as decimated by injuries as us.

 

[Pruitt Will Do It]

This sort of has that Northwestern/Iowa feel to it for me. Maybe more Iowa. They had a better record but you could see the weakness if you looked a couple of levels deeper. Everyone was talking about them having their "system" in place and how recruited talent didn't matter. UT physically dominated them even with Jones as HC.

WVU head football coach Dana Holgorsen is finished at West Virginia when he loses to Tennessee. He's already on a nuclear hotseat.

 

[Rudy123]

Because we potentially will be starting two true freshmen at corner and they have one of the best QB/WR tandems we'll face all season.

Because an average Georgia Tech team damn near beat us, with almost the same roster that we have now. Also because we lost 8 S.E.C. games last season. Even to teams that didn't qualify for a bowl game and had losing records.

 

[butchna]

Maybe something here will jog your memory OP. ...

The good news is that we return a lot of players. The bad news is, well, the same ... hope that helps.

These in your spank bank? Hope they help.

 

[sjt18]

UT has a chance to beat WVU and eventually a good chunk of it comes down to talent and skill- players. Bigger strong athletes when well coached beat smaller strong athletes. Bigger quick and fast athletes when well coached beat smaller quick and fast athletes. I do not know if UT is a better football team. I am very confident that UT has better athletes.

 

[sjt18]

Because an average Georgia Tech team damn near beat us, with almost the same roster that we have now. Also because we lost 8 S.E.C. games last season. Even to teams that didn't qualify for a bowl game and had losing records.

Just curious. Do you think we're being too rough on Jones by laying most of the underutilization and underdevelopment of talent at HIS feet?

I do. I don't think he was an SEC quality coach when hired. I think he underperformed the talent on every UT roster he had from 1st to last. I think the "philosophies", methods, and techniques he pushed made players worse and unfortunately led to injuries that among other things cut promising careers short. I think his mismanagement of players was not a new thing in 2017 but something that compounded itself to the point where Hurd, Kelly, and others were just fed up with him.

I don't know if Pruitt is the answer or not. I don't know what kind of talent he has as a HC. I don't know how or if he's building the confidence and skill of this team. But he reminds me of the good football coaches I've known and the ones I played for years ago. He walks, talks, and acts like a football coach. Jones never impressed me as anything more than a used car salesman who had read "Coaching Football for Dummies".

 

[VolFan..But]

To those of you that say last year was the worst in school history.......remember

1906 and 1909 we were 1-6-2. So no, last year was not the worst in school history.

 

[99gator]

I can’t imagine what folks are like coming off a good season.

Tennessee should be worried about anyone with helmets and pads that takes the field until proven otherwise

 

[VolFan..But]

4-8...new...unproven head coach...completely new staff...lost a few key upper classmen...haven’t been relevant in 17 years...
Need more?

What is your definition of relevant? Tennessee like most schools only has a couple of National Titles. In 1951 that was bogus. They only have 9 SEC titles that do not include ties or splits. If your definition of relevant is a title then you are a fan of the wrong program. This, like many, are not it. That being said, 17 years? In 2000 we were relevant says you? 8-4 that year. 01 we won 11. That must be your definition of relevant. 03 and 04 we won 10 games. Is that less relevant? In 07 they won 10. SEC East Winners in 04 and 07. That is less relevant then say 8-4 in 2000? This is about a historically 6-5 program. Take Phillip and Neyland out and it is barely above 500. Tennessee has won 10 games 20 times. Fulmer has 9 of those. That's in 120+ seasons. You might want to check your goals for this program. Historically they are down the list.

 

[sjt18]

To those of you that say last year was the worst in school history.......remember

1906 and 1909 we were 1-6-2. So no, last year was not the worst in school history.

You remember those teams? That's impressive....

 

[sjt18]

I can’t imagine what folks are like coming off a good season.

Tennessee should be worried about anyone with helmets and pads that takes the field until proven otherwise

And you should really, really start worrying about your own issues rather than looking down your nose at UT fans.

I don't know if Pruitt is a good HC or not. I don't know if this UT team will be any good or not. I do know that the talent cupboard isn't as bare as most preseason prognosticators are saying. And... I've looked at WVU enough to not be overwhelmed. They are a 2nd tier team in the B12... and there is a huge chasm between the top and 2nd tier.

 

[Johnnyreb#VFL]

If we come out and manhandle WV, the Pruitt and Big Orange Train will be in full effect. We will be media darlings for a week.

 

[Pruitt Will Do It]

If we come out and manhandle WV, the Pruitt and Big Orange Train will be in full effect. We will be media darlings for a week.

And Tennessee will be in the Top 25 if they start out 4-0

 

[Volfan76]

Look. I know the Will Grier hype is in full effect but he went 7-3 in the Big 12. They went 7-6 overall. Look at their schedule. It was a joke. They lost to every half decent team they played. Their O-Line returns 4 starters. Their O line was overmatched against quality competition. David Sills had 18 TDs against nobodies and didn't catch a single one after Grier went down. The defense struggled all year. They gave up 200+ yards on the ground in the Big 12. That was a healthy West Virginia team at full strength. Lol

Then look at all the injuries and drama we had last season. O line was decimated. Kirkland Out. Jennings Out, Chance Hall Out. No position group stayed healthy throughout the year. Down to third string on the O-line. Kids playing out of position. Incompetent leadership. Shoop couldn't get guys to learn the defense and we don't acknowledge just how terrible of an offensive coordinator Larry Scott was. You all saw it too. It looked worse than a blind toddler's coloring book. Team giving up on the coach because they knew he was gone towards the end of the year. That coaching staff was a cluster.

I just can't see how with a healthy UT team and at least adequate coaching we don't blow these guys out of the water. We brought over a veteran coaching staff with proven ability and I know stars don't tell the story but out of 22 projected starters I want to say about 18 or 19 of these guys are 4 star recruits or better. Over the past four years we've averaged a recruiting ranking of 14.75. Meaning give or take we are a top 15 team talent wise.There is no shortage of talent or experience on this roster. Outside of Will Grier we're leaps and bounds better at almost every position. I don't see why we're dampening our expectations. We can easily win 8 or 9 games this season without the Lyle handicap.

Some people just can't comprehend the impact a hc has on a football team. I had a guy tell me one time that Saban wasn't worth all the money that Bama was paying him and went on to say that he really didn't have much to do with those championships. A lot of people think that HCs are just recruiters and basic game planners and have little impact on player development. A lot of people will have trouble getting the Butch stench out of their nostrils until they smell something sweet again. You are right though...if you can go from 9-4 to 4-8, then the opposite is true as well. There is talent here and there is not reason we shouldn't be able to contend with WV.

 

[99gator]

And you should really, really start worrying about your own issues rather than looking down your nose at UT fans.

I don't know if Pruitt is a good HC or not. I don't know if this UT team will be any good or not. I do know that the talent cupboard isn't as bare as most preseason prognosticators are saying. And... I've looked at WVU enough to not be overwhelmed. They are a 2nd tier team in the B12... and there is a huge chasm between the top and 2nd tier.

I am fully aware of Florida’s issues. Right now, they stink. And if we were playing West Virginia I’d be concerned because right now, until proven otherwise, Florida stinks

The same is true for Tennessee whether people want to acknowledge it or not.

All of the talent those two teams supposedly have was last seen getting skull drug by anyone they faced