We are an entitled, petty, barbaric country: Handicapped parking shooting

#251
#251
I think everyone can agree parking in a handicap spot without a valid reason is a dbag thing to do. I think everyone can agree that the man was in the wrong for not minding his own business and making a giant deal over it. I think everyone can agree that the guy should not have shoved middle aged Rambo without talking to see what the issue was first. The shove was an escalation. I just struggle to justify the shooting as self defense as it appeared to be an exponentially greater escalation based on the video.

I really do think this man's history should play a role here. If this man had no alleged history of brandishing his gun in public like a wannabe tough guy, I would be more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If that history is proven true, it shows a pattern of negligent and dangerous behavior that heavily implies this man had been looking for a fight. I have little respect for those who do not respect firearms and seem all to eager to put them to use.
 
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#252
#252
BowlBrother85 said:
This isn't even being a "Barney Fife". At least Barney was a cop. This is going full Charles Bronson vigilante justice over a freaking parking space. Dumb.
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From what I currently know I don't think this is accurate. This guy takes umbrage at people apparently thinking so highly of themselves they can avail themselves of conveniences for which they are not actually entitled. He has things to say on the matter. Would he be better served (and possibly achieve more in the long run) taking a pic of the illegally parked car and call the police? I think so. I also think it generally imprudent to get confrontational with strangers, even if one is technically in the right about the situation. In any case the above is, in no small degree, far short of Paul Kersey level action.

When the guy comes out of the store let's clearly state what happened...he physically assaulted the other guy. Ire is not actionable and just deciding "I'm gonna knock this guy on his ass cause he's giving my woman grief." doesn't hold up legally. He also quite clearly closes on the guy and it is incontrovertibly reasonable for the guy on the ground to think this physical assault may not be over. We'll never know but he may very well have been correct in that belief.

Now with the above our man on the ground produces a weapon. It in fact has precisely the effect one would hope for in this situation which is that it immediately takes all the aggression out of the attacker. The person clearly retreats. Short of some new act of threatening action this should be OVER and the window for actionable self-defense is pretty much closed. Instead the man fires anyway. I don't know why but the threshold for use of lethal force in FL is


if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony or to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another.
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One of the things many don't seem to understand about such incidents is that "reasonable" isn't defined by the person inflicting the harm. (most Gator fans wouldn't leave Neyland alive otherwise :)) I like to think of myself as a reasonable person and from looking at that video I see what was a perfectly reasonable presentation of a weapon for the purpose of self-defense morph into an unreasonable shooting of a person who, upon recognizing the introduction of a weapon to the scenario, was de-escalating and moving away.
 
#253
#253
Here's a good question.... If the guy had come out and shoved the guy down, where the guy hit his head and died, would he be charged for murder? Would he be justified in protecting his gal?
 
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#254
#254
InVOLuntary said:
Here's a good question.... If the guy had come out and shoved the guy down, where the guy hit his head and died, would he be charged for murder? Would he be justified in protecting his gal?
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Yes. He should. Not sure why that is a dilemma. Justified until excessive force (assault?) led to death.
 
#255
#255
InVOLuntary said:
Here's a good question.... If the guy had come out and shoved the guy down, where the guy hit his head and died, would he be charged for murder? Would he be justified in protecting his gal?
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Not a good question and yes he would be charged with murder
 
#257
#257
BowlBrother85 said:
That is absolutely ridiculous. The now-dead guy saw someone (not in a law enforcement uniform) yelling at his girlfriend and he responded the way many other 28 year old men would. I'm not saying that's good judgement - just reality. This whole incident was ignited by a wannabe cop who should have just:

1) Taken a picture.
2) Stopped by the local station on the way home.
3) And washed his hands of the matter.

Drejka may not pay for this with time behind bars... but he has a civil suit coming his way. I would bet on that.
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Why do you keep bringing up civil suits? That has nothing to do with what happened. That’s something that may happen later.
The older dude wasn’t assaulting the moron girlfriend. You cannot react like that. Period.

You cannot just walk around assaulting people and not expect something bad to happen to you. He walked out of he store and immediately assaulted the older dude from the blind side. You can’t act like that and expect nothing to happen to you.


If I was walking around Compton and yelling racial epithets and ended up shot and killed you wouldn’t think - oh what a tragedy, there will be a civil suit coming. You would be thinking wow, what a ****ing idiot.

So yes, this dead guy got what he asked for.
 
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#258
#258
McDad said:
Shirley you can't be serious.
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Shirley I am. He got what he asked for. You can’t go around assaulting people, especially blind siding people like that and not expect to have anything happen to you. You can’t act like that.

And don’t call me Shirley.
 
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#259
#259
InVOLuntary said:
Here's a good question.... If the guy had come out and shoved the guy down, where the guy hit his head and died, would he be charged for murder? Would he be justified in protecting his gal?
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Well depending on exactly what you mean by "murder" (if you can't prove intent to grievously injure/kill it's not the same thing as premeditated action to do so) maybe but anything you do that seriously injures/kills someone is going to have consequences. As the scenario you lay out would have been precipitated by a pretty unambiguous case of intentional physical assault the penalty could be pretty severe.
 
#260
#260
hndog609 said:
Well depending on exactly what you mean by "murder" (if you can't prove intent to grievously injure/kill it's not the same thing as premeditated action to do so) maybe but anything you do that seriously injures/kills someone is going to have consequences. As the scenario you lay out would have been precipitated by a pretty unambiguous case of intentional physical assault the penalty could be pretty severe.
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The point I was getting at was the guy that was killed not afforded the same rights under stand your ground as the shooter? When does stand your ground become justifiable? Is it after an assault or is perception of imminent assault? The dude was obviously standing his ground to protect his girl.
 
#261
#261
InVOLuntary said:
The point I was getting at was the guy that was killed not afforded the same rights under stand your ground as the shooter? When does stand your ground become justifiable? Is it after an assault or is perception of imminent assault? The dude was obviously standing his ground to protect his girl.
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He was protecting her from words? With a violent blind-side push? That’s stretching it. Even if that mattered, the dude with the gun has no idea who that moron who just assaulted him is. He’s someone that just ran up and physically assaulted him.
 
#262
#262
BowlBrother85 said:
Does someone who is not a law enforcement officer or security guard or the proprietor have any business confronting someone over illegally parking? That is ridiculous. If it bothered Drejka so much, he should have just taken a picture of the car with tags (minus placard) while illegally parked and reported it to the proper authorities. That is what a reasonable person would have done.
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Irony.

You hate cops and the rule of law, but a citizen (not breaking the law... REALIZE that), asking someone about being illegally parked, should have called the law? We don’t know the details of what was said, but he wasn’t holding a threatening posture before the physical attack.

What if the eventual victim pushed an officer and met the same demise? Should that officer also call the cops... Barney... Barney... Man down, send backup?!

Damn, the outrage would be more golden than Ukrainian beds.
 
#263
#263
Also, before this gets all sidetracked, I’m not in support of the dude with he gun.

Ras layed it all out in the very first post. The only thing he left out was that the morons shouldn’t have parked in the handicap space. But he did correctly point out that there are too many handicap spaces.
 
#264
#264
InVOLuntary said:
The point I was getting at was the guy that was killed not afforded the same rights under stand your ground as the shooter? When does stand your ground become justifiable? Is it after an assault or is perception of imminent assault? The dude was obviously standing his ground to protect his girl.
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Ah, then we're talking about this I posted earlier.

if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony or to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another.
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Short of being able sell the idea that the guy yammering at his GF presented that level of a threat (I see 0% chance of that passing just the sniff test) then SYG isn't in play. In fact I said in that same post that "ire isn't actionable" and if you are the one that first introduces force into a situation that results in harm you had best have a very articulable and convincing reason.
 
#265
#265
tumscalcium said:
Shirley I am. He got what he asked for. You can’t go around assaulting people, especially blind siding people like that and not expect to have anything happen to you. You can’t act like that.

And don’t call me Shirley.
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Now lookie here, Shirley. What the Mc did was illegal when he assaulted Dbag. But Dbag retaliated in a way that is unjustified (they way I saw the video). Also, I have a problem with the alleged history of the gun toter provoking others
 
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#266
#266
McDad said:
Now lookie here, Shirley. What the Mc did was illegal when he assaulted Dbag. But Dbag retaliated in a way that is unjustified (they way I saw the video). Also, I have a problem with the alleged history of the gun toter provoking others
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Oh I don’t think Dbag should have even said anything to the MC’s honey. The whole situation is all wrong. Thus I don’t care what happened or happens to any of them.
 
#267
#267
McDad said:
Look at our board. Being all objective and grown up. Finding agreement on a white guy in the wrong for killing a black man. Calling into question his temperament to even have a CCW.

What's wrong with us???
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Funny you mention race because I truly never even thought about it. I was too busy thinking about the shooting itself
 
#269
#269
tumscalcium said:
Oh I don’t think Dbag should have even said anything to the MC’s honey. The whole situation is all wrong. Thus I don’t care what happened or happens to any of them.
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Gotta give you credit there. None of what went down in that video alters my life in any meaningful way.
 
#271
#271
zeppelin128 said:
Same here, and I've been known to drop the race card off when appropriate. I don't think it is a factor.
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Was it not mentioned in the article Ras linked??? ...folks making hay of the ethnicities of the involved?
 
#272
#272
McDad said:
Was it not mentioned in the article Ras linked??? ...folks making hay of the ethnicities of the involved?
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Just because it was mentioned in the article doesn't mean I agree with it. I think old dude would have shot anybody.
 
#273
#273
McDad said:
Was it not mentioned in the article Ras linked??? ...folks making hay of the ethnicities of the involved?
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The protests over the weekend were calling out the "Racist SYG Law"......said it "protects white people" and "gives them the ability to shoot blacks for no reason"......
 
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