#BoycottNRA

#3,651
#3,651
luthervol said:
No. You have to be able to trace the legal ownership on a particular firearm. That's the biggest piece of the puzzle of trying to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
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So you actually are wanting to impose BGCs on private sales and you’re wanting to create an actual federal registry also. Now what are you giving up again in compromise?
 
#3,653
#3,653
luthervol said:
No. You have to be able to trace the legal ownership on a particular firearm. That's the biggest piece of the puzzle of trying to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
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Then you aren't interested in universal BGCs.

But let's just discuss how this would be a huge waste of time since you don't want to compromise.

When you buy a gun and the FLL does your BGC that record is supposed to be purged within (I think 72 hours). The dealer keeps the form 4473 on file until he gives up his FFL then he ships all of his form 4473s to WVA where they transfer that info to microfiche (illegal to keep them electronically).

Bubba buys a gun from his local dealer and a couple years later Bubba pawns the gun. A year or two down the road Bubba dies. Ricky buys that gun with a BGC then moves out of state, year later he decides to sell his gun to Jimmy, goes to local FFL does a BGC, FFL keeps that record. Jimmy sells it to Billy goes to another FFL and they keep that record. Billy sells it to Luther without a BGC because Luther doesn't want to follow the law, Luther commits a crime with the gun and it's recovered by LEO.

LEO sends serial number to ATF to track, they look up the manufacture, contact them for the distributor, distributor tells them what dealer it went to they go to the dealer and he pulls the 4473 and tells them Bubba bought that gun. They go to Bubba's house his widow say :dunno:. End of trace.

So it really doesn't matter if the firearm info is on the form or not.
 
#3,654
#3,654
So according to Luther, anytime someone does something they are not supposed to, it's because there is a loophole that still makes it possible, even if it's not legal for them to do so?

I guess there are thousands of Americans with revoked licenses using the DUI loophole. Got to close that loophole with multiple checkpoints around each city to do driver license checks....
 
#3,655
#3,655
hog88 said:
There isn't a loophole. Your scenario, it's already illegal.

So you start requiring BGCs for private transactions, how is that going to stop someone already bent on breaking the law from breaking the law?
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It doesn't.

What he is talking about is having someone to blame or prosecute after the action has occurred and you have dead people and possibly a dead shooter you can't prosecute.
Then when he figures out people are still being shot (because people are gonna kill people) he moves on toward the original "we" phase he posted several days ago.
 
#3,656
#3,656
hog88 said:
Then you aren't interested in universal BGCs.

But let's just discuss how this would be a huge waste of time since you don't want to compromise.

When you buy a gun and the FLL does your BGC that record is supposed to be purged within (I think 72 hours). The dealer keeps the form 4473 on file until he gives up his FFL then he ships all of his form 4473s to WVA where they transfer that info to microfiche (illegal to keep them electronically).

Bubba buys a gun from his local dealer and a couple years later Bubba pawns the gun. A year or two down the road Bubba dies. Ricky buys that gun with a BGC then moves out of state, year later he decides to sell his gun to Jimmy, goes to local FFL does a BGC, FFL keeps that record. Jimmy sells it to Billy goes to another FFL and they keep that record. Billy sells it to Luther without a BGC because Luther doesn't want to follow the law, Luther commits a crime with the gun and it's recovered by LEO.

LEO sends serial number to ATF to track, they look up the manufacture, contact them for the distributor, distributor tells them what dealer it went to they go to the dealer and he pulls the 4473 and tells them Bubba bought that gun. They go to Bubba's house his widow say :dunno:. End of trace.

So it really doesn't matter if the firearm info is on the form or not.
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Seems as if the laws need to be improved. Microfiche? Is the NRA scared of electronic data?

Every purchase should require a BGC and there should be a universal registry.
 
#3,657
#3,657
luthervol said:
Seems as if the laws need to be improved. Microfiche? Is the NRA scared of electronic data?

Every purchase should require a BGC and there should be a universal registry.
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Because it's illegal to keep a national level registry.

Now, you want universal background checks and a national registry.

What are you willing to give up in return?
 
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#3,658
#3,658
luthervol said:
I have no problem saying AGAIN that I want background checks on private sales.

Why are you so sensitive to the term "gun show loophole"?

Gun shows are the clearinghouse of the private sale loophole.....thus, Gun Show Loophole.
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Why do you constantly hide behind the liberal talking points?

Have you ever been to a gun show? Very few private sellers with tables. The ones I've seen were antique stuff. I've purchased one firearm at a gun show that didn't require a background check and it was a guy that was walking around that I bumped into.
 
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#3,659
#3,659
InVOLuntary said:
Why do you constantly hide behind the liberal talking points?

Have you ever been to a gun show. Very few private sellers with tables. The ones I've seen were antique stuff. I've purchased one firearm at a gun show that didn't require a background check and it was a guy that was walking around that I bumped into.
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He doesn’t want his imagination spoiled. In his mind the room is half lit, rebel and Nazi flags hang on every wall, and the tables are packed with dodgy firearms sold by shifty characters. Machine guns are buy one get one, all the ammo is armor piercing, and no one runs a background check.
 
#3,660
#3,660
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#3,663
#3,663
DancingOutlaw said:
My dogs chase bumblebees. When they catch them they don’t kill them, they slobber on them a bit and then poke at them until they can fly again so they can do it all over. It’s not very dissimilar to what happens in this thread.
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I'm over even remotely taking him seriously because nobody can be that stupid. And if he really IS serious, then he is more dangerous than anything else and shouldn't be given a platform to air his views.
 
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#3,665
#3,665
NorthDallas40 said:
So you actually are wanting to impose BGCs on private sales and you’re wanting to create an actual federal registry also. Now what are you giving up again in compromise?
Click to expand...

Grand Vol said:
Because it's illegal to keep a national level registry.

Now, you want universal background checks and a national registry.

What are you willing to give up in return?
Click to expand...


Bump for Luther!
 
#3,666
#3,666
SpaceCoastVol said:
I'm over even remotely taking him seriously because nobody can be that stupid. And if he really IS serious, then he is more dangerous than anything else and shouldn't be given a platform to air his views.
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My guess would be even if he’s serious he does not have the wherewithal to act on his positions. So a forum is a great place to bring impotent ideas. You get to see them “in public” with no threat to go beyond here.
 
#3,669
#3,669
DancingOutlaw said:
#1 unless the person is in your state Armslist sales require an FFL just like anything else. #2 There are tons of scams on Armslist. People get photos of guns off the internet and place an ad. You send the money, gun never shows. I would not use that website.
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I have purchased both over internet and private from Armslist. The over internet has to be SHIPPED TO YOU from an FFL and then RECEIVED BY and FFL who completes the BGC. I have never had an issue with Armslist. You make sure and contact the seller first and then don't wire the $$ until the gun is at the FFL for shipment.
 
#3,671
#3,671
luthervol said:
So now that I showed you what the loophole is you want to change the debate.

If a person who can not pass a background check what is he to do?

Let's see, he could go to a Waffle House parking lot and hang out in hopes someone may come buy wishing to sell him a gun. Or he could just go to some random basements hoping someone will be hanging out in one of them wanting to sell a gun.

Or he could go to a gun show where he thinks there may be someone selling without background checks.

Hmmm....what to do, what to do?

Or he may put an add on an internet gun sight requesting to only deal with non licensed dealers.

Sound like a big ol' gun show / internet loophole.
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Nice Troll job. I am sure someone will bite.
 
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#3,672
#3,672
luthervol said:
And every sentient being knows that every law will be broken. That's why it's necessary to continue to tweak and improve laws and close the loopholes whether intended or not.
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And which particular loop hole are you talking about here?
 
#3,673
#3,673
luthervol said:
I have no problem saying AGAIN that I want background checks on private sales.

Why are you so sensitive to the term "gun show loophole"?

Gun shows are the clearinghouse of the private sale loophole.....thus, Gun Show Loophole.
Click to expand...

I don't know who is the bigger moron, those that continue to debate your dumbass on this or the 2 idiots that liked your post indicating their belief that you actually know something.
 
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#3,674
#3,674
luthervol said:
What is the “gun show loophole”?

The Gun Control Act of 1968 requires anyone engaged in the business of selling guns to have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) and keep a record of their sales. However, this law does not cover all gun sellers. If a supplier is selling from his or her private collection and the principal objective is not to make a profit, the seller is not “engaged in the business” and is not required to have a license. Because they are unlicensed, these sellers are not required to keep records of sales and are not required to perform background checks on potential buyers, even those prohibited from purchasing guns by the Gun Control Act. The gun show loophole refers to the fact that prohibited purchasers can avoid required background checks by seeking out these unlicensed sellers at gun shows.


Gun show loophole, gun law loophole, Brady law loophole (or Brady bill loophole), private sale loophole, and private sale exemption in the United States is the sale of firearms by private sellers, including those done at gun shows, dubbed the "secondary market".[1] A loophole in federal law exists, under which "any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the state where they reside, as long as they do not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms".

Forget the so-called "gun show loophole." These days, many gun-control advocates are far more focused on the large number of firearms sales that take place over the Internet, my colleague Philip Rucker reports.

A new study by Third Way, a centrist Democratic group, looked at gun ads posted on Armslist.com in ten states over several random days this summer. The authors found that more than 15,000 guns were on sale at any given time. What's more, they counted 1,928 ads "from prospective buyers asking to buy specifically from private sellers (thereby ensuring that no background checks is required)."
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When did I mention a gun show "loophole?" I was talking about this fictional internet sales "loophole."
 
#3,675
#3,675
82_VOL_83 said:
I have purchased both over internet and private from Armslist. The over internet has to be SHIPPED TO YOU from an FFL and then RECEIVED BY and FFL who completes the BGC. I have never had an issue with Armslist. You make sure and contact the seller first and then don't wire the $$ until the gun is at the FFL for shipment.
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There are plenty of examples of scams. People doctor FFL PDFs which is why you should check the ATF website. And of course “buyers” who offer you $200 more than asking, just send them the gun and part of the MO/check back and keep the rest. The MO bounces, the gun is gone, and you’re out the purchase price and an extra $200.
 
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