#BoycottNRA

[luthervol]

He was challenged on this point a short while ago and he admitted that he had no idea what the internet loophole is.

What is the “gun show loophole”?

The Gun Control Act of 1968 requires anyone engaged in the business of selling guns to have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) and keep a record of their sales. However, this law does not cover all gun sellers. If a supplier is selling from his or her private collection and the principal objective is not to make a profit, the seller is not “engaged in the business” and is not required to have a license. Because they are unlicensed, these sellers are not required to keep records of sales and are not required to perform background checks on potential buyers, even those prohibited from purchasing guns by the Gun Control Act. The gun show loophole refers to the fact that prohibited purchasers can avoid required background checks by seeking out these unlicensed sellers at gun shows.


Gun show loophole, gun law loophole, Brady law loophole (or Brady bill loophole), private sale loophole, and private sale exemption in the United States is the sale of firearms by private sellers, including those done at gun shows, dubbed the "secondary market".[1] A loophole in federal law exists, under which "any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the state where they reside, as long as they do not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms".

Forget the so-called "gun show loophole." These days, many gun-control advocates are far more focused on the large number of firearms sales that take place over the Internet, my colleague Philip Rucker reports.

A new study by Third Way, a centrist Democratic group, looked at gun ads posted on Armslist.com in ten states over several random days this summer. The authors found that more than 15,000 guns were on sale at any given time. What's more, they counted 1,928 ads "from prospective buyers asking to buy specifically from private sellers (thereby ensuring that no background checks is required)."

 

[InVOLuntary]

What is the “gun show loophole”?

The Gun Control Act of 1968 requires anyone engaged in the business of selling guns to have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) and keep a record of their sales. However, this law does not cover all gun sellers. If a supplier is selling from his or her private collection and the principal objective is not to make a profit, the seller is not “engaged in the business” and is not required to have a license. Because they are unlicensed, these sellers are not required to keep records of sales and are not required to perform background checks on potential buyers, even those prohibited from purchasing guns by the Gun Control Act. The gun show loophole refers to the fact that prohibited purchasers can avoid required background checks by seeking out these unlicensed sellers at gun shows.


Gun show loophole, gun law loophole, Brady law loophole (or Brady bill loophole), private sale loophole, and private sale exemption in the United States is the sale of firearms by private sellers, including those done at gun shows, dubbed the "secondary market".[1] A loophole in federal law exists, under which "any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the state where they reside, as long as they do not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms".

Forget the so-called "gun show loophole." These days, many gun-control advocates are far more focused on the large number of firearms sales that take place over the Internet, my colleague Philip Rucker reports.

A new study by Third Way, a centrist Democratic group, looked at gun ads posted on Armslist.com in ten states over several random days this summer. The authors found that more than 15,000 guns were on sale at any given time. What's more, they counted 1,928 ads "from prospective buyers asking to buy specifically from private sellers (thereby ensuring that no background checks is required)."

Quit calling it the gun show loophole. It just makes you look dumber and dumber (If that's possible). Call it what it is. You want to ban private sales without a background check. Just because some private sales occur at gun shows doesn't make it any different than a private transaction in a Waffle House parking lot or a private, 2 car garage. All it is is more liberal MSNBC/CNN talking points meant to try and sensationalize a private sale.

Also, you can't buy a gun over the internet unless it goes through a licenced firearm dealer. So if it's occurring, it's already against the law and additional laws will do nothing to stop it. Armpits is simply that, a list. You have to meet the person face to face and exchange case for the firearm. It is not an internet transaction. Again, it's just another liberal fear tactic.

 

[TheDeeble]

What is the “gun show loophole”?

The Gun Control Act of 1968 requires anyone engaged in the business of selling guns to have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) and keep a record of their sales. However, this law does not cover all gun sellers. If a supplier is selling from his or her private collection and the principal objective is not to make a profit, the seller is not “engaged in the business” and is not required to have a license. Because they are unlicensed, these sellers are not required to keep records of sales and are not required to perform background checks on potential buyers, even those prohibited from purchasing guns by the Gun Control Act. The gun show loophole refers to the fact that prohibited purchasers can avoid required background checks by seeking out these unlicensed sellers at gun shows.


Gun show loophole, gun law loophole, Brady law loophole (or Brady bill loophole), private sale loophole, and private sale exemption in the United States is the sale of firearms by private sellers, including those done at gun shows, dubbed the "secondary market".[1] A loophole in federal law exists, under which "any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the state where they reside, as long as they do not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms".

Forget the so-called "gun show loophole." These days, many gun-control advocates are far more focused on the large number of firearms sales that take place over the Internet, my colleague Philip Rucker reports.

A new study by Third Way, a centrist Democratic group, looked at gun ads posted on Armslist.com in ten states over several random days this summer. The authors found that more than 15,000 guns were on sale at any given time. What's more, they counted 1,928 ads "from prospective buyers asking to buy specifically from private sellers (thereby ensuring that no background checks is required)."

That's not a loophole. That's someone intentionally breaking the law. Your wikipedia copy/paste even says so. "Prohibited purchasers."

There's nothing ambiguous or unclear about the laws governing private sales. If a person is prohibited from possessing a firearm it is illegal for them to do so.

When someone has their drivers license revoked for driving under the influence do you consider it a DUI loophole that they are still able to drive a vehicle illegally? If a woman takes out a restraining order against someone is it a restraining order loophole that the person is still able to go to her residence?

 

[Orangedogsrule]

A private seller would be required to run a background check and maybe submit some type of transfer of ownership form.

Detroit 'Pawn Shop' Guy in His Basement (DPSGIHB): "So, uh ... Vinnie, I uh gots this heah papuh youse gotta sign sayin youse aint use the gat fuh no crime".

Vinnie "One Shot" Caglione: "Oh no I's ait. Getoutaheah"!

DPSGIHB: "Yeah youse do Vinnie! I's can't sell it to youse no other way. And, youse gotta register or turn in all them others I solt ya".

Vinnie: BAM!

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Quit calling it the gun show loophole. It just makes you look dumber and dumber (If that's possible). Call it what it is. You want to ban private sales without a background check. Just because some private sales occur at gun shows doesn't make it any different than a private transaction in a Waffle House parking lot or a private, 2 car garage. All it is is more liberal MSNBC/CNN talking points meant to try and sensationalize a private sale.

Also, you can't buy a gun over the internet unless it goes through a licenced firearm dealer. So if it's occurring, it's already against the law and additional laws will do nothing to stop it. Armpits is simply that, a list. You have to meet the person face to face and exchange case for the firearm. It is not an internet transaction. Again, it's just another liberal fear tactic.

#1 unless the person is in your state Armslist sales require an FFL just like anything else. #2 There are tons of scams on Armslist. People get photos of guns off the internet and place an ad. You send the money, gun never shows. I would not use that website.

 

[InVOLuntary]

#1 unless the person is in your state Armslist sales require an FFL just like anything else. #2 There are tons of scams on Armslist. People get photos of guns off the internet and place an ad. You send the money, gun never shows. I would not use that website.

Every ad I've ever seen required the buyer and the seller to meet.

 

[luthervol]

Quit calling it the gun show loophole. It just makes you look dumber and dumber (If that's possible). Call it what it is. You want to ban private sales without a background check. Just because some private sales occur at gun shows doesn't make it any different than a private transaction in a Waffle House parking lot or a private, 2 car garage. All it is is more liberal MSNBC/CNN talking points meant to try and sensationalize a private sale.

Also, you can't buy a gun over the internet unless it goes through a licenced firearm dealer. So if it's occurring, it's already against the law and additional laws will do nothing to stop it. Armpits is simply that, a list. You have to meet the person face to face and exchange case for the firearm. It is not an internet transaction. Again, it's just another liberal fear tactic.

So now that I showed you what the loophole is you want to change the debate.

If a person who can not pass a background check what is he to do?

Let's see, he could go to a Waffle House parking lot and hang out in hopes someone may come buy wishing to sell him a gun. Or he could just go to some random basements hoping someone will be hanging out in one of them wanting to sell a gun.

Or he could go to a gun show where he thinks there may be someone selling without background checks.

Hmmm....what to do, what to do?

Or he may put an add on an internet gun sight requesting to only deal with non licensed dealers.

Sound like a big ol' gun show / internet loophole.

 

[hog88]

So now that I showed you what the loophole is you want to change the debate.

If a person who can not pass a background check what is he to do?

Let's see, he could go to a Waffle House parking lot and hang out in hopes someone may come buy wishing to sell him a gun. Or he could just go to some random basements hoping someone will be hanging out in one of them wanting to sell a gun.

Or he could go to a gun show where he thinks there may be someone selling without background checks.

Hmmm....what to do, what to do?

Or he may put an add on an internet gun sight requesting to only deal with non licensed dealers.

Sound like a big ol' gun show / internet loophole.

No, it sounds like someone is breaking the law.

 

[InVOLuntary]

So now that I showed you what the loophole is you want to change the debate.

If a person who can not pass a background check what is he to do?

Let's see, he could go to a Waffle House parking lot and hang out in hopes someone may come buy wishing to sell him a gun. Or he could just go to some random basements hoping someone will be hanging out in one of them wanting to sell a gun.

Or he could go to a gun show where he thinks there may be someone selling without background checks.

Hmmm....what to do, what to do?

Or he may put an add on an internet gun sight requesting to only deal with non licensed dealers.

Sound like a big ol' gun show / internet loophole.

Lol. The only thing you've showed me is your ignorance. All you do is receive the liberal talking points. Why can't you just call it what it is? Why must you try and disguise it and make it sound like something it isn't? All you want is background checks on private sales.

 

[hog88]

Lol. The only thing you've showed me is your ignorance. All you do is receive the liberal talking points. Why can't you just call it what it is? Why must you try and disguise it and make it sound like something it isn't? All you want is background checks on private sales.

They don't want it bad enough to take the firearm info off the 4473.

What they really want is a registry.

 

[luthervol]

No, it sounds like someone is breaking the law.

And every sentient being knows that every law will be broken. That's why it's necessary to continue to tweak and improve laws and close the loopholes whether intended or not.

 

[InVOLuntary]

They don't want it bad enough to take the firearm info off the 4473.

What they really want is a registry.

That's step one.

That's their goal, always has been. Always will be.

 

[hog88]

And every sentient being knows that every law will be broken. That's why it's necessary to continue to tweak and improve laws and close the loopholes whether intended or not.

There isn't a loophole. Your scenario, it's already illegal.

So you start requiring BGCs for private transactions, how is that going to stop someone already bent on breaking the law from breaking the law?

 

[hog88]

That's step one.

That's their goal, always has been. Always will be.

Yep. Registry then confiscation.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

So now that I showed you what the loophole is you want to change the debate.

If a person who can not pass a background check what is he to do?

This is where your hypothetical stops. Your question is how does someone who isn’t allowed to own a gun own a gun? Any decision made beyond that point IS A CRIME. It’s a crime for him to possess it, it’s a crime to sell or give it to him. It’s like asking how does a poor person become rich? Oh he can rob a bank, bank robbery loophole.

 

[luthervol]

Lol. The only thing you've showed me is your ignorance. All you do is receive the liberal talking points. Why can't you just call it what it is? Why must you try and disguise it and make it sound like something it isn't? All you want is background checks on private sales.

I have no problem saying AGAIN that I want background checks on private sales.

Why are you so sensitive to the term "gun show loophole"?

Gun shows are the clearinghouse of the private sale loophole.....thus, Gun Show Loophole.

 

[hog88]

I have no problem saying AGAIN that I want background checks on private sales.

Why are you so sensitive to the term "gun show loophole"?

Gun shows are the clearinghouse of the private sale loophole.....thus, Gun Show Loophole.

Fine, let's have BGCs on all transactions. Are you fine with removing the firearm info from the form?

 

[hndog609]

Sound like a big ol' gun show / internet loophole.

Actually, it doesn't. Flea Market loophole? Classified adds in the local newspaper loophole? Bargain Mart classifieds loophole? Your neighbor knows you're into guns and his uncle is looking to maybe selling his old pre-64 Winchester Model 70 deer rifle loophole? There is no "loophole"...there is an outright delineation across the board in federal law involving sales between licensed dealers and private citizens. The term "loophole" is only invoked by the ignorant, idiotic or outright liars.

 

[Grand Vol]

Every ad I've ever seen required the buyer and the seller to meet.

Or shipped to an FFL.

 

[luthervol]

This is where your hypothetical stops. Your question is how does someone who isn’t allowed to own a gun own a gun? Any decision made beyond that point IS A CRIME. It’s a crime for him to possess it, it’s a crime to sell or give it to him. It’s like asking how does a poor person become rich? Oh he can rob a bank, bank robbery loophole.

It's only a crime to sell it to him if you know he cannot purchase it legally. That's the BIG LOOPHOLE.

You can legally sell a gun to a criminal just by claiming you didn't know he was a criminal.

Many people are vested in keeping a system in place that makes it easy for law abiding citizens to assist criminals in purchasing guns.

 

[luthervol]

Fine, let's have BGCs on all transactions. Are you fine with removing the firearm info from the form?

No. You have to be able to trace the legal ownership on a particular firearm. That's the biggest piece of the puzzle of trying to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Fine, let's have BGCs on all transactions. Are you fine with removing the firearm info from the form?

They say they want to make sure people that should not have guns can't buy them at least legally. If that's their goal, they should not mind leaving the firearm off the form. I think the form is stupid anyway. I mean think about it. "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?". Isn't that what the freakin' background check is for? Most of the questions are stupid and someone intent on doing harm with a gun will just lie anyway.

The system is dumb. With technology the way it is, you should give your social and the the system gives a thumbs up or down. Private citizens should have an app that allows one to run a background check, free in a matter of seconds.

 

[hog88]

It's only a crime to sell it to him if you know he cannot purchase it legally. That's the BIG LOOPHOLE.

You can legally sell a gun to a criminal just by claiming you didn't know he was a criminal.

Many people are vested in keeping a system in place that makes it easy for law abiding citizens to assist criminals in purchasing guns.

Can we take the firearm info off the BGC form in exchange for universal BGCs?

 

[InVOLuntary]

No. You have to be able to trace the legal ownership on a particular firearm. That's the biggest piece of the puzzle of trying to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

And that's why you'll never get universal background checks.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Or shipped to an FFL.

Yes. Left that out.