Recruiting Forum Football Talk LVII

[UTMVol76]

If Haslam and his possy will let Fulmer and Davenport do their jobs, hopefully we'll be alright for now. I'm more concerned with the long term effects this will have.

I’m concerned about all of it. It’s like saying an cancer on your ear is ok because it’s a small area. The one thing I was happiest about the VOL revolution was the apparent shift of power away from the Haslems. I’m not afraid to say I hate them.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

It's definitely not to this level of importance, but to Haslam appointing the new board as he goes out as Governor would be about like Obama appointing a Supreme Court Justice as he went out. It shouldn't happen. Should be up to the next governor.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

I’m concerned about all of it. It’s like saying an cancer on your ear is ok because it’s a small area. The one thing I was happiest about the VOL revolution was the apparent shift of power away from the Haslems. I’m not afraid to say I hate them.

I was happy that the Haslam's were overthrown when all that went down at the time but I knew they'd come back with a vengeance to regain the power they had. Maddening.

 

[UTMVol76]

I was happy that the Haslam's were overthrown when all that went down at the time but I knew they'd come back with a vengeance to regain the power they had. Maddening.

It is

 

[WinginFlorida]

It's definitely not to this level of importance, but to Haslam appointing the new board as he goes out as Governor would be about like Obama appointing a Supreme Court Justice as he went out. It shouldn't happen. Should be up to the next governor.

If the need arose or was justified, wouldn't a new Gov be able to appoint new members? These can't be lifetime appointments...

 

[pierce60]

I think you all are giving this move by the governor way more attention that it deserves. You are acting like the Haslam family hasn't been DEEPLY involved in state government and on campus in Knoxville for years (both when Tennessee athletics were good and bad). They are not a new family with new money. Also, if the Haslams were hell-bent on gaining power on campus and destroying UTK why didn't Bill institute this program 2 years ago when the state did it with the TBR schools? Or, why didn't the state start this process with the UT system?

Also, the initial appointments will most likely be for 3 years, but then subsequent appointments will be for 6 year terms. And, the state legislature has both veto power (or power to confirm) and the power to remove an appointment by 2/3 vote. Which says, these are not lifetime appointments.

To summarize, I think you all are way over thinking this move.....

 

[UTMVol76]

I think you all are giving this move by the governor way more attention that it deserves. You are acting like the Haslam family hasn't been DEEPLY involved in state government and on campus in Knoxville for years (both when Tennessee athletics were good and bad). They are not a new family with new money. Also, if the Haslams were hell-bent on gaining power on campus and destroying UTK why didn't Bill institute this program 2 years ago when the state did it with the TBR schools? Or, why didn't the state start this process with the UT system?

Also, the initial appointments will most likely be for 3 years, but then subsequent appointments will be for 6 year terms. And, the state legislature has both veto power (or power to confirm) and the power to remove an appointment by 2/3 vote.

To summarize, I think you all are way over thinking this move.....

A). As already stated the difference in Haslem support is Big Jim in the day (who knows football) to his boys today, in particular Jimmy and his outstanding football acumen on exhibit up North.

B) The importance to push this through before wasn’t paramount until the obvious shift of power after the SchiaNo incident. That changed the paradigm.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

They had control until the Schiano deal blew up. There was no reason to change anything. Now that they lost it, they want it back.

 

[drvenner]

I think you all are giving this move by the governor way more attention that it deserves. You are acting like the Haslam family hasn't been DEEPLY involved in state government and on campus in Knoxville for years (both when Tennessee athletics were good and bad). They are not a new family with new money. Also, if the Haslams were hell-bent on gaining power on campus and destroying UTK why didn't Bill institute this program 2 years ago when the state did it with the TBR schools? Or, why didn't the state start this process with the UT system?

Also, the initial appointments will most likely be for 3 years, but then subsequent appointments will be for 6 year terms. And, the state legislature has both veto power (or power to confirm) and the power to remove an appointment by 2/3 vote. Which says, these are not lifetime appointments.

To summarize, I think you all are way over thinking this move.....

I disagree. If any of you think that Jimmy Haslam is going to allow his influence to fade quietly, you are in for a rude awakening.

 

[pierce60]

A). As already stated the difference in Haslem support is Big Jim in the day (who knows football) to his boys today, in particular Jimmy and his outstanding football acumen on exhibit up North.

B) The importance to push this through before wasn’t paramount until the obvious shift of power after the SchiaNo incident. That changed the paradigm.

The governor has made higher education a priority in his administration and with the move to change the TBR he set up the precedent to do the same with the UT system. Therefore, I imagine that this move was in the works long before the Schiano incident. I might be wrong (and I probably am), but my scenario is just as likely as your thinking this was hatched in late November/early December.

 

[pierce60]

They had control until the Schiano deal blew up. There was no reason to change anything. Now that they lost it, they want it back.

But if you had a way to ensure your power wouldn't be diminished wouldn't you go ahead and make that happen? I would say yes.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

Big Jim was the point man behind every big move that involved Tennessee athletics up until the last year or two, if I understand it correctly. We had to have the "ok" from him made on Majors, Fulmer, Dickey, etc. The problem to me, is his boys. They simply do not know how to run an AD, and they think they do.

 

[BigZiti09]

They had control until the Schiano deal blew up. There was no reason to change anything. Now that they lost it, they want it back.

Exactly.

This FOCUS act is absolute proof that they lost control and want it back.

Also it proves that vol fans were right to want them out of power.

These power hungry imbeciles need to get lost and keep their grubby little hands off our program.

 

[BigZiti09]

I think you all are giving this move by the governor way more attention that it deserves. You are acting like the Haslam family hasn't been DEEPLY involved in state government and on campus in Knoxville for years (both when Tennessee athletics were good and bad). They are not a new family with new money. Also, if the Haslams were hell-bent on gaining power on campus and destroying UTK why didn't Bill institute this program 2 years ago when the state did it with the TBR schools? Or, why didn't the state start this process with the UT system?

Also, the initial appointments will most likely be for 3 years, but then subsequent appointments will be for 6 year terms. And, the state legislature has both veto power (or power to confirm) and the power to remove an appointment by 2/3 vote. Which says, these are not lifetime appointments.

To summarize, I think you all are way over thinking this move.....

If this bill was on the up and up it wouldn't be getting rushed through.

This is a power move by the Haslams to gain back control.

 

[Chief Vol 13]

But if you had a way to ensure your power wouldn't be diminished wouldn't you go ahead and make that happen? I would say yes.

If Bill were to become UT President, would that not give him just about all the power he could have? There's no term limit to that position, correct? If he's the new President, it'll be hard to go against him in anything. Especially given the fact that he will have appointed everyone except one person on the new board. He'll likley have a bunch of Raja Jubron's on the board that think they're above any reproof from the fans.

 

[pierce60]

If this bill was on the up and up it wouldn't be getting rushed through.

This is a power move by the Haslams to gain back control.

Being "rushed" through is relative. I just happen to think that this bill was being talked about long before Schiano happened and would have happened before Haslam leaves office regardless of Schiano being the coach or not because higher education has been a focus of his. The TBR restructure has set the precedent, but again I might be wrong.

 

[pierce60]

If Bill were to become UT President, would that not give him just about all the power he could have? There's no term limit to that position, correct? If he's the new President, it'll be hard to go against him in anything. Especially given the fact that he will have appointed everyone except one person on the new board. He'll likley have a bunch of Raja Jubron's on the board that think they're above any reproof from the fans.

It absolutely would give him all the power he could have, but I guess I am just one who thinks he hasn't been a terrible governor and might be ok as a UT President. His brother seems to be the problem in this whole equation, not necessarily him.

 

[Aesius]

Anyone else not offended that Currie called us wackos?

I took it as a compliment.

"Why aren't these ignorant rednecks happy with TaxSlayer Bowls and beating Florida once every 11 years?! They're wackos to demand a better product than that. Who do they think they are, Alabama?"

 

[Chief Vol 13]

It absolutely would give him all the power he could have, but I guess I am just one who thinks he hasn't been a terrible governor and might be ok as a UT President. His brother seems to be the problem in this whole equation, not necessarily him.

I don't think he's been a bad governor either. I just don't trust the family. If Bill would leave Fulmer and Davenport alone and not force some stooges of his to replace them, I'll be cool for now.

 

[volfanCLT]

The governor has made higher education a priority in his administration and with the move to change the TBR he set up the precedent to do the same with the UT system. Therefore, I imagine that this move was in the works long before the Schiano incident. I might be wrong (and I probably am), but my scenario is just as likely as your thinking this was hatched in late November/early December.

This doesn’t make for good message board fodder though.

Much more fun to have the Haslam boogeyman

 

[pierce60]

I don't think he's been a bad governor either. I just don't trust the family. If Bill would leave Fulmer and Davenport alone and not force some stooges of his to replace them, I'll be cool for now.

That's fair. I think most people don't trust Jimmy and are projecting that distrust on Bill. Also, no one fully knows what this legislation will do or how things will shake out or what Bill will do after his term is over. He might have his sights set on something higher than the UT Presidency.

 

[LynxVol]

PB what is your gut telling you about this group? Is the new staff making a big difference? Would you say the talent level is that bad or just bad coaching the last years? Bottom line can they make a competitive SEC team out of these players or will they need 3 years of recruiting to get back in the hunt?

To get on Alabama and Georgia's level in terms of talent is going to take time if that's where Tennessee wants to go.

And frankly it's going to take a couple of recruiting classes where there aren't many misses for the Vols to get to the cusp of that kind of talent, where Auburn and LSU currently are and where Tennessee, Florida and Texas A&M are capable of getting given their resources.

This staff is still very much in the evaluation process with this roster. Their initial thoughts were that it was in need of some serious upgrading in terms of overall talent and depth, but that Tennessee had in the neighborhood of two dozen or so quality SEC-level players. Right now for Pruitt & Co. it's full speed ahead with what they've got.

Butch Jones disproved the notion that arose during the Derek Dooley era that you can't recruit at Tennessee. Jones took advantage of some good situations (an in-state talent boon and some legacy prospects) and won some key battles to land one top-five class and another one top-10 class. Those classes included some real difference-makers along with some misses.

From this perspective, Jones very likely had the best roster in the SEC East in 2015 and 2016, but failed to capitalize on it and blew some really good opportunities to elevate the program higher than he did. Those failures cranked up the pressure going into last season Jones couldn't handle it and the bottom fell out.

How many wins would better coaching have netted the Vols in 2015 and 2016? Even amid last season's disaster, Tennessee was 15 points (aka the Florida, South Carolina and Kentucky losses) away from entering its final three games with a 7-2 record.

Tennessee's schedule in 2018 is brutal, but the Vols have enough talent to be competitive. Expecting them to beat Alabama, Georgia or Auburn isn't realistic. On paper the rest of the games look less difficult than those three, and in the SEC you're going to play a handful of tight games where a couple plays or coaching decisions make the difference.

The fault of the previous regime was it did less with more. Can this staff do more with less before they get more? Its track record of developing players suggests yes.

- 247 (P. Brown)

 

[LynxVol]

1. Over under 5.5 wins, which side are you taking?

2. Early returns on the 2019 class are fairly positive, is a top 10 class likely?

The hunch here is Tennessee will scrape together enough wins to get to a bowl game, so the over is the pick for now.

The margin of error is very small, though. The Vols will be fighting uphill against Alabama, Georgia and Auburn. Will Grier deciding to return to West Virginia changed the outlook of the season opener. The SEC East improved with just about everybody but Tennessee improving the past couple of seasons.

Tennessee's three buy games are gimmes. The Vols always should beat Vanderbilt and Kentucky. Surely Tennessee can find another win on the schedule.

It's also very early in the recruiting process, but the early returns indeed have been positive. Tennessee's staff has the attention of a handful of top-tier talent and has done an admirable job of getting those players to campus this spring. Recruits have been able to sense the change in the overall attitude of the program.

Pruitt is confident in the coaching abilities of himself and his staff. How the Vols finished the 2018 class didn't sit well with him. He's voiced as much publicly and privately.

Those factors plus this staff's recruiting track record and the so-called new-coach bump suggest a top-10 class can't be ruled out, but from here it's too soon to go on record predicting it.

- 247 (P. Brown)

 

[LynxVol]

How do you see this o-line performing this year if Smith is healthy? Last in the SEC, bottom third or in the middle?

If Tennessee gets middle-of-the-SEC-pack play from its offensive line, Will Friend will be getting a nice raise this time in 2019.

Hopefully Trey Smith is available to play. He's an easy kid to root for, a player who bleeds orange and wants so badly to win big at his home-state program. He's also hugely talented and has huge paychecks heading his way in the future if this situation is resolved positively.

But he's just one player.

Smith was one of Tennessee's highest-graded players last season and the offensive line was still a mess. Unlike any other position, that group has to function as a unit. Four guys can do their jobs perfectly on a play, but if one misses an assignment or gets beat, the whole group looks bad.

The way the Vols finished last season on the offensive line has to be a source of concern. Friend is a proven offensive line coach who has produced quality units at Georgia and Colorado State. He was one of Pruitt's first hires and is being paid as one of the Vols' top assistants.

He's got his work cut out for him.

The reasons for hope beyond Smith's return is in terms of age and experience, Tennessee's offensive line is still relatively early in terms of its collective development.

Ryan Johnson, Devante Brooks, Nathan Niehaus and even Marcus Tatum are third-year players with limited experience. Riley Locklear is a sophomore, and Jerome Carvin and Ollie Lane are freshmen, which K'Rojhn Calbert basically is as well. The "veteran" of the group is Drew Richmond, and he has all of 13 starts to his name.

There's plenty of clay there for Friend to mold, but it's a position of major concern.

- 247 (P. Brown)

 

[LynxVol]

What's the overall mood of the team? Are they buying in or looking like a team needing to be totally revamped?

This team needed to be revamped in every way imaginable after last season's disaster.

The 2017 season needed to be flushed from memory and record by everyone in the program. Pruitt and his staff gave last season's game tape a glance, but it doesn't sound like they put much stock in it. And that's the right move.

It was interesting that Pruitt said after Tennessee's third practice that he was starting to like this team because of its drive.

“I sense of a bunch of guys," he said, "that are hungry and maybe have a chip on their shoulder — not all of ‘em, not all of ‘em, but maybe enough of ‘em, and maybe we can make it where it’s contagious.”

You would expect that kind of response from these players. Last season was no fun for them. Many of them had to be ready to embrace a new approach, and the approach they've gotten is more or less the total opposite from what they had last season.

We'll see how hungry they are later in spring when they are physically drained from some grueling practices and mentally drained from having to learn entirely new systems on both sides of the ball. That part of the transition won't be easy and there will be growing pains now and later. But the buy-in process appears to be off to a positive start.

- 247 (P. Brown)