Abortion Rights

#977
#977
he is trying to change the subject because he has inadequately argued the initial point. or at the least he is arguing a different subject to get some type of transitive win on the initial subject.
 
#978
#978
LouderVol said:
are you fine with policing murder? yes or no.
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Yes, but not merely because murdering a person is morally wrong. I'm for using force to prevent the murder of persons because, if we don't and we do not provide adequate redress, then we run into the problem that has been repeatedly explained by Augustine, Aquinas, Hobbes, and Locke: persons take vengeance and taking vengeance leads to vendettas and vendettas destabilize society.
 
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#979
#979
Roustabout said:
Yep, that's it. Must be. No possible alternatives.
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Not without some ad hoc principle.

I'm pretty sure that Jesus admonishes his followers to "Be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect", right?

But, part of the perfection of the heavenly Father is not stepping in to prevent abortions. So, why do you feel that you should be doing this?

And, further, if you believe that having an abortion is morally wrong, why not simply allow God to make the judgment and administer the punishment? Do you think that God just didn't see the abortion? Or, do you think God might, in a moment of weakness, bestow mercy and not adequately punish those having and performing abortions?
 
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#980
#980
LouderVol said:
he is trying to change the subject because he has inadequately argued the initial point. or at the least he is arguing a different subject to get some type of transitive win on the initial subject.
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I haven't inadequately argued anything. There is no burden of proof required on my end, since I am not supporting, and voting for officials that will enact, policies that allow the state to use force to control this behavior.

The burden of proof should never be on the individual who is championing liberty and freedom. The burden of proof should always and only be on those championing coercion at the pointy end of the spear.
 
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#981
#981
Matt2496 said:
IMO, abortion has been propagated by the US government throughout our society as a method of population control. Just my opinion tho
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And percentages say the group most “controlled “ by abortion is?
And people keep telling me it’s not a race issue......but is it?
 
#982
#982
Orangeslice13 said:
And percentages say the group most “controlled “ by abortion is?
And people keep telling me it’s not a race issue......but is it?
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According to multi-variate analyses, race plays only a very tiny role in predicting abortions.

One of the strongest indicators that one will have an abortion is poverty and lack of high school completion.

One of the strongest indicators that one will not have an abortion is that they are a married woman, who does not work, and they are Catholic.

Now, it is true that if you are black, it is simply more likely than if you are white that you are impoverished and have not completed high school.
 
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#984
#984
ClearwaterVol said:
The opinion I hold is with regard to abortion only, as it applies to a fetus which is in the gestation period. I don't see the issue as requiring a label such as personhood or conception etc. It is simply a matter of when the rights of one being trump the rights of another being.
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Pretty simple explanation.
 
#987
#987
therealUT said:
Not without some ad hoc principle.

I'm pretty sure that Jesus admonishes his followers to "Be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect", right?

But, part of the perfection of the heavenly Father is not stepping in to prevent abortions. So, why do you feel that you should be doing this?

And, further, if you believe that having an abortion is morally wrong, why not simply allow God to make the judgment and administer the punishment? Do you think that God just didn't see the abortion? Or, do you think God might, in a moment of weakness, bestow mercy and not adequately punish those having and performing abortions?
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God also "allows" murder, rape, etc etc. funny you don't bring those up.....maybe cause it doesn't fit your agenda?
 
#988
#988
therealUT said:
I haven't inadequately argued anything. There is no burden of proof required on my end, since I am not supporting, and voting for officials that will enact, policies that allow the state to use force to control this behavior.

The burden of proof should never be on the individual who is championing liberty and freedom. The burden of proof should always and only be on those championing coercion at the pointy end of the spear.
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liberty and freedom at the cost of life? I don't want to live in your world. I am protecting EVERYONE's liberty and freedom and life, not just those as persons. you go on ahead and try to explain those who fit into your Logan's Run world, let me know if your light goes out and I will help you get out of the city.
 
#989
#989
LouderVol said:
liberty and freedom at the cost of life? I don't want to live in your world. I am protecting EVERYONE's liberty and freedom and life, not just those as persons. you go on ahead and try to explain those who fit into your Logan's Run world, let me know if your light goes out and I will help you get out of the city.
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Not possible to protect everyone's liberty and freedom. You are making judgment calls on whose liberty and freedom you believe more important.
 
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#991
#991
LouderVol said:
liberty and freedom at the cost of life? I don't want to live in your world. I am protecting EVERYONE's liberty and freedom and life, not just those as persons. you go on ahead and try to explain those who fit into your Logan's Run world, let me know if your light goes out and I will help you get out of the city.
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Liberty and freedom will always come with that price tag.
 
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#993
#993
therealUT said:
I haven't inadequately argued anything. There is no burden of proof required on my end, since I am not supporting, and voting for officials that will enact, policies that allow the state to use force to control this behavior.

The burden of proof should never be on the individual who is championing liberty and freedom. The burden of proof should always and only be on those championing coercion at the pointy end of the spear.
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also if you aren't struggling why did you bring up a completely different subject? God hadn't been mentioned (at least as a subject ITself) until you went after ITs morality? You are pandering to your side hoping to score some cheap points running out tired, and shallow "arguments" after finding no ground to take on the actual subject. stay on topic, if you don't want to look desperate.
 
#994
#994
ClearwaterVol said:
Not possible to protect everyone's liberty and freedom. You are making judgment calls on whose liberty and freedom you believe more important.
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uh no, I am putting one LIFE before a seconds FREEDOM to end said life. if that makes me a bad person so be it.

so much for ones rights ending at the start of anothers.
 
#995
#995
LouderVol said:
also if you aren't struggling why did you bring up a completely different subject? God hadn't been mentioned (at least as a subject ITself) until you went after ITs morality? You are pandering to your side hoping to score some cheap points running out tired, and shallow "arguments" after finding no ground to take on the actual subject. stay on topic, if you don't want to look desperate.
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I'm not pandering to anything. I'm showing that your own views on the exact same subject are inconsistent.

I would be a fool to think that in a few days of discussion I could convince anyone to abandon their deeply held convictions, and even more of a fool to think that I can convince more than a tiny group of individuals to adopt my view of the morality of abortion and infanticide. I don't take up fool's errands.

Thus, what am I doing?

I first show that my view is consistent, whether or not you or anybody else finds it acceptable. I then move on to demonstrate the inconsistent views of my interlocutors. That's it.

None of that should provide any person with a reason to adopt my view, but it should provide every one, including you, with a reason to reflect more deeply on their commitments, insofar as I have revealed an inconsistency. I have revealed multiple such inconsistencies in here.
 
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#996
#996
therealUT said:
I've given reasons to prohibit these things that do not solely rest in their morality. I like society.
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so do I, which is why I was saying I wasn't going to physically assault someone for something I believe is morally wrong in abortion.
 
#997
#997
therealUT said:
I'm not pandering to anything. I'm showing that your own views on the exact same subject are inconsistent.

I would be a fool to think that in a few days of discussion I could convince anyone to abandon their deeply held convictions, and even more of a fool to think that I can convince more than a tiny group of individuals to adopt my view of the morality of abortion and infanticide. I don't take up fool's errands.

Thus, what am I doing?

I first show that my view is consistent, whether or not you or anybody else finds it acceptable. I then move on to demonstrate the inconsistent views of my interlocutors. That's it.

None of that should provide any person with a reason to adopt my view, but it should provide every one, including you, with a reason to reflect more deeply on their commitments, insofar as I have revealed an inconsistency. I have revealed multiple such inconsistencies in here.
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except you haven't proven that we are inconsistent. you make assumptions on us, ignore things we say multiple times, and refuse to explain what exactly you mean, abstract thought and sentiment.
 
#998
#998
LouderVol said:
except you haven't proven that we are inconsistent. you make assumptions on us, ignore things we say multiple times, and refuse to explain what exactly you mean, abstract thought and sentiment.
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I've shown your inconsistencies. Whether you want to see them, well, that's on you.
 
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#1,000
#1,000
LouderVol said:
uh no, I am putting one LIFE before a seconds FREEDOM to end said life. if that makes me a bad person so be it.

so much for ones rights ending at the start of anothers.
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And yet another way to say that is that you are valuing the freedom of one being at the expense of another.

You are doing this by forcing the one being to sacrifice its freedom in an attempt to ensure the survival of a second.

You really don't see the overlap do you?

Should pregnant women be permitted to smoke?
drink?
skydive?
box?
drink pennyroyal tea?
Parsley tea?
 
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