#BoycottNRA

[luthervol]

Not according to your post I quoted above.

I didn't notice that you retracted it, if you did, my apologies.

If not that's a Titanic size hole.

I didn't retract anything. To which post are you referring?

 

[hog88]

I'm more concerned over his lack of knowledge of what an "assault rifle" actually is.

And it does say "arms" which is pretty vague. Perhaps the Founding Fathers planned it that way...

He knows what an assault rifle is, he refuses to acknowledge it because it destroys his argument.

 

[apevol]

My comment, his actions, or the concept of republicans supporting free markets?

His actions.

 

[Vol8188]

Giving Delta preferential treatment isn't exactly a free-market principle either.

Being able to keep the money they earn=free market.

He’s wanrinf to change that and ensure they keep less of the money they earned. It’s a childish and socialist way of thinking. It’s no diffeeent than trump and Bernie Sanders wanting to tax companies who outsource at a greater rate.

Childish and socialist

 

[Vol8188]

His actions.

Trump has caused both parties to do a 180 on their policies. It’s insane. And it goes to show that neither side has any true convictions. Just blind allegiance to their team

 

[luthervol]

What if you always drive the speed limit but your neighbor ignores it. Drives 50MPH through school zones. Should the government take your car?

Nope. Nor should they remove the law regulating the speed. Just enforce it.

 

[luthervol]

I'll play. why do we?

For the safety and well being of the citizenry.

 

[hndog609]

Yes I do. All I have to do is go through the proper procedures for a class III, pay my money and bingo, I can have an assault rifle.

That a and a lot of money...an actual assault rifle is going to be a 5 figure purchase.

 

[apevol]

If they had enough evidence for a warrant, they had enough evidence to pick him up and hold him.

My problem with the whole thing was they went in a military style raid in the beginning. You want to serve a warrant for suspected weapons and drug violations? Drug violations that weren't on the warrant, yet the ATF requested inter-agency cooperation for that fact. Which later turned out to be a lie from the ATF. Not only that, but you have ATF Agents changing their story during the official investigation.

The ATF went in guns blazing. There wasn't even a peaceful solution considered on the morning of 28 February.

I'm not even thinking in terms of if the raid was right or wrong, or even legal or not. I'm thinking that if they were going to act they shouldve either done it more lowkey, or just went all in from the start.

Whoever let slip to the media, I'm not sure if it was intentional. Koresh knew, and they didnt have the numbers nor supplies to succeed.

 

[luthervol]

It's a fact backed up by hard statistics, me owning an AR-15 does not endanger the public.

The statistics are up for debate. Many interpret them as proof that more regulation is needed.

 

[Grand Vol]

BS. This guy was preaching the end of the world, and the seven seals of Revelation. This was going to be a fight whether or not The FBI or local authorities were called in. You can't seriously be that naïve.

I guess I am.

A peaceful solution was never on the table even though that group never showed any kind of hostility towards anyone. Nobody. Yet, the ATF comes in, guns blazing and firing first? How about that "lost" evidence that would have showed the rounds were shot from the outside in? How do you "lose" a freaking steel door out of a set of two?

No, I have my eyes opened that the government at the time, specifically the ATF, was far more eager to use force to get its way than they should have been. And if you can't see that, you're blind as a bat.

You brought up Ruby Ridge and Waco in the same sentence. The initial meme that started this was in a thread about the NRA.

No, the original meme used was stupid as ****:

View attachment 154362

Which obviously is either someone saying the government can and should be allowed to trample all over your rights or the poster was a moron.

Or both...

To which I replied that really wasn't the image he should be using in context of the discussion. And made the suggestion that perhaps he should use the innocents murdered at Ruby Ridge as an example of the government using overwhelming force to enforce its will.

The 2nd amendment is absolutely on the cursory of this incident, and I've heard that argument from others. It's disgusting. This is not Ruby Ridge.

Then let's keep it at the Second Amendment and not worry about jack booted thugs and their massive screwups at Ruby Ridge and Waco.

ATF/FBI could have gone in earlier than 51 days. If they were so eager to use force, they would have gone in the first week. The davidians were waiting with guns too, ready to fight. They were using kids as human shields. They knew that would buy them time. This whole idea that the ATF escalated everything is just wrong. After the Ruby Ridge fallout, I seriously doubt they would have gone in the way they did if there wasn't concern for the kids welfare.

The Davidians prepared for a fight when they heard the raid was coming in. The ATF could have and should have called off the raid right then and there despite them knowing their raid was blown.

Don't hand my this nonsense about kids. This was not about kids at all.

And you know good and well, picking up Koresh wouldn't have solved a thing. He would have ordered his followers to stay and fight no matter what, and probably had been preaching that for years. No way anybody was getting into to see those guns and coming out without a fight. They stayed in even after the "assault" started. Some committed suicide. Are you really suggesting if Koresh would have been arrested in town, or they would have waited longer, or one person had gone in to look at the guns, it would have ended differently?

Anything is possible, but I wouldn't bet my lunch money on that one.

How would he have ordered his followers to stand and fight when he would have been locked up...?

And you don't know if a peaceful solution could have been found since the ATF went in, again, looking for a fight. There was never, NEVER a peaceful solution even considered.

Open your eyes and see what happened instead of what you want to see. This wasn't about kids. It was about the State trying to use overwhelming force to show who was boss. And people, to include ATF Agents, lost their lives because of it.

 

[luthervol]

Apparently you are since those lines are not in the bill of rights or constitution.

They precede both. They are the foundation of what the bill of rights and constitution are built on. Do you assign no significance to the words?

 

[Grand Vol]

I'm not even thinking in terms of if the raid was right or wrong, or even legal or not. I'm thinking that if they were going to act they shouldve either done it more lowkey, or just went all in from the start.

Whoever let slip to the media, I'm not sure if it was intentional. Koresh knew, and they didnt have the numbers nor supplies to succeed.

The raid was wrong from the beginning to the final stage.

As to legal, it might have been legal, but it certainly wasn't smart.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Nope. Nor should they remove the law regulating the speed. Just enforce it.

Bingo, That's what we've been saying! The laws are already on the books just enforce them. No need for new laws. No need to take my gun, (your car) from me because others break the law.

We've had a breakthrough moment today, fellas.

 

[midnight orange]

They precede both. They are the foundation of what the bill of rights and constitution are built on. Do you assign no significance to the words?

Are you saying that the declaration of independence nullifies the 2nd amendment?

 

[hog88]

The statistics are up for debate. Many interpret them as proof that more regulation is needed.

Nope, the statistics are undeniable. None of my ARs have endangered or harmed anyone. So the regulations are working.

 

[apevol]

Trump has caused both parties to do a 180 on their policies. It’s insane. And it goes to show that neither side has any true convictions. Just blind allegiance to their team

Didnt expect to see a republican try to use his position to dictate public partnerships and sponsorships

 

[hog88]

They precede both. They are the foundation of what the bill of rights and constitution are built on. Do you assign no significance to the words?

The Declaration of Independence is not law. end of story.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I'm more concerned over his lack of knowledge of what an "assault rifle" actually is.

And it does say "arms" which is pretty vague. Perhaps the Founding Fathers planned it that way...

Its almost like... if they thought the citizens would have to exercise their right then they should have the similar means to do so?

...

Nah. They wanted us to stick with muskets in the 2000’s. Clearly.

 

[luthervol]

Bingo, That's what we've been saying! The laws are already on the books just enforce them. No need for new laws. No need to take my gun, (your car) from me because others break the law.

We've had a breakthrough moment today, fellas.

Bingo. back at you....the laws (speed limits) can and are changed as circumstances warrant. You agree that we have laws and the right to make laws. That also means we have the right to change and adjust those laws as needed.

 

[apevol]

The raid was wrong from the beginning to the final stage.

As to legal, it might have been legal, but it certainly wasn't smart.

I agree it was wrong.

I think Koresh was a piece of **** and was doing some horrible things, but doesn't feel like there was any sort of effort to confirm what actually was or was not happening before they decided to go after the group.

Just ineffective surveilance and hit or miss speculation.

I hate to say it, but it even wouldve been much better had they induced a fatal 'accident' when Koresh would spend time away from the group.

 

[Obsessed]

They precede both. They are the foundation of what the bill of rights and constitution are built on. Do you assign no significance to the words?

Hey buddy

My white mexican co-worker signed up for the NRA today in your honor.

Only 4 left!

 

[Vol8188]

Didnt expect to see a republican try to use his position to dictate public partnerships and sponsorships

I didn’t expect to see them go silent on gun control either. Trump wants to ban bump stocks, and none of them will even mention it

 

[luthervol]

The Declaration of Independence is not law. end of story.

It is the founding principle of all of our laws. Much more fundamentally significant to 2A. Every law must pass through the filter.

 

[hog88]

Bingo. back at you....the laws (speed limits) can and are changed as circumstances warrant. You agree that we have laws and the right to make laws. That also means we have the right to change and adjust those laws as needed.

And there is a well defined procedure to change the 2nd amendment. Go for it.