Active Shooter at High School in Parkland, FL

[BenGrimm]

He froze, not much else to say about it. He was a resource officer with a gun who probably didn't even have to pull it out for 8 years.

Let's not bring up Orlando where ALL the actual cops just waited outside.

Yet the NRA would have us believe that Teachers will be able to give o all John McClain on an active shooter if only they were allowed to be armed.

 

[apevol]

Yet the NRA would have us believe that Teachers will be able to give o all John McClain on an active shooter if only they were allowed to be armed.

shot down and tortured?

huh?

 

[JFreak]

Yet the NRA would have us believe that Teachers will be able to give o all John McClain on an active shooter if only they were allowed to be armed.

There is a difference between point defense (armed teachers) and area defense (where an SRO has to rush in). Not that I'd expect you to understand obvious differences.

 

[JFreak]

shot down and tortured?

huh?

Bruce Willis bro..

 

[apevol]

Bruce Willis bro..

Oh, ****. Read that wrong.

 

[Coug]

Yet the NRA would have us believe that Teachers will be able to give o all John McClain on an active shooter if only they were allowed to be armed.

Ultimately it'll be used as a deterrent first and foremost. Make the shooter think twice about entering the school with armed teachers.
Nobody is saying there won't be teachers that freeze. I think the point is that instead of teachers using themselves as shields and just "hoping" and "praying" they survive they'll now have a choice in the matter.

 

[crusse10]

Ultimately it'll be used as a deterrent first and foremost. Make the shooter thing twice about entering the school with armed teachers.
Nobody is saying there won't be teachers that freeze. I think the point is that instead of teachers using themselves as shields and just "hoping" and "praying" they survive they'll now have a choice in the matter.

I feel like putting more weaponry into classrooms is only going to result in more shootings in classrooms.

 

[BenGrimm]

Ultimately it'll be used as a deterrent first and foremost. Make the shooter thing twice about entering the school with armed teachers.
Nobody is saying there won't be teachers that freeze. I think the point is that instead of teachers using themselves as shields and just "hoping" and "praying" they survive they'll now have a choice in the matter.

What deters someone going on a suicide run like the vast majority of school shooters have done? If the intention is to not come out alive then they won’t care if the teachers are armed or not.

This school in FL had a trained armed police officer on campus and the guy still rolled up in an Uber and pulled a fire alarm.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Smh..

 

[Coug]

I feel like putting more weaponry into classrooms is only going to result in more shootings in classrooms.

How so?

What deters someone going on a suicide run like the vast majority of school shooters have done? If the intention is to not come out alive then they won’t care if the teachers are armed or not.

This school in FL had a trained armed police officer on campus and the guy still rolled up in an Uber and pulled a fire alarm.

You'll have actual people inside the same building, hopefully the same hallway who don't want to die and decide to shoot back.

 

[37L1]

What deters someone going on a suicide run like the vast majority of school shooters have done? If the intention is to not come out alive then they won’t care if the teachers are armed or not.

This school in FL had a trained armed police officer on campus and the guy still rolled up in an Uber and pulled a fire alarm.

They will die sooner.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

What deters someone going on a suicide run like the vast majority of school shooters have done? If the intention is to not come out alive then they won’t care if the teachers are armed or not.

This school in FL had a trained armed police officer on campus and the guy still rolled up in an Uber and pulled a fire alarm.

Google "Active Shooter in Israeli School". Get back to me on that.

They know how to protect their kids. Even the Palestinians, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc. aren't stupid enough to try. And take a wild guess how Israel protects it's schools.

Access control, video surveillance, hardened interior doors and walls, well-rehearsed emergency protocols, and yes...people with guns.

The solution to our problem has already been discovered.

 

[BenGrimm]

Google "Active Shooter in Israeli School". Get back to me on that.

They know how to protect their kids. Even the Palestinians, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc. aren't stupid enough to try. And take a wild guess how Israel protects it's schools.

Access control, video surveillance, hardened interior doors and walls, well-rehearsed emergency protocols, and yes...people with guns.

The solution to our problem has already been discovered.

if you are willing to give up your individual right to own anything more than one handgun, and that be on a strict ANNUAL permit basis, then by all means let’s start with Israel as the model.

 

[crusse10]

How so?

I am of the belief that, if there were fewer guns legally available to teenagers, there would be fewer shootings. There may be a rise in stabbings and other person-to-person killings, but I believe the overall number of deaths would be lowered. I think it's *possible* for a bad guy teenager to get a gun and go into a school and shoot, but I think it's much more difficult if they can't walk into a gun show and buy one with ammunition. If just one of those potential mass shootings is thwarted simply because he couldn't easily get his hands on a gun, then I think progress was made.

Regarding introducing more guns into the school, I think that just creates opportunities for someone to find a way to get to that weapon to use it. Not only is there the possibility that a student could overwhelm a teacher to steal the firearm, but it's feasible that a teacher could have a total Falling Down kind of day and just use that gun that's right there.

I honestly see the NRA saying to arm teachers as their way to use a tragedy as a means to drive up gun sales for the major gun companies that rely on NRA spin.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

if you are willing to give up your individual right to own anything more than one handgun, and that be on a strict ANNUAL permit basis, then by all means let’s start with Israel as the model.

You completely missed the point. Israel protects it's schools. And malls, synagogues, etc. I'm pretty sure the Palestinians, etc. don't bother obeying Israel's gun laws.

Speaking of which, everyone in Israel is armed. Everyone. I have stood at a bus stop in Haifa and watched a guy walk by with a business satchel, and an AR over his shoulder.

There is mandatory military service in the IDF, with a few exemptions. But all current and former IDF personnel are armed. 24/7. Most of them carry handguns.

Of course, there is...or was...a mandatory prison sentence for a lost weapon, but if you walk into a coffee shop in Israel and pull a weapon, it's just a question of how many different angles you get shot from.

My point, again, was and is that we need to start with our schools; we need to make them hard targets; and we need to include trained and armed people as part of that strategy. That's all.

 

[Coug]

I am of the belief that, if there were fewer guns legally available to teenagers, there would be fewer shootings. There may be a rise in stabbings and other person-to-person killings, but I believe the overall number of deaths would be lowered. I think it's *possible* for a bad guy teenager to get a gun and go into a school and shoot, but I think it's much more difficult if they can't walk into a gun show and buy one with ammunition. If just one of those potential mass shootings is thwarted simply because he couldn't easily get his hands on a gun, then I think progress was made.

Regarding introducing more guns into the school, I think that just creates opportunities for someone to find a way to get to that weapon to use it. Not only is there the possibility that a student could overwhelm a teacher to steal the firearm, but it's feasible that a teacher could have a total Falling Down kind of day and just use that gun that's right there.

I honestly see the NRA saying to arm teachers as their way to use a tragedy as a means to drive up gun sales for the major gun companies that rely on NRA spin.

You misunderstand. The students won't know which teachers are either conceal carrying or have a gun in a closet.

 

[Orange Blazer]

You misunderstand. The students won't know which teachers are either conceal carrying or have a gun in a closet.

Teachers carrying guns is a horrible idea.

 

[crusse10]

You misunderstand. The students won't know which teachers are either conceal carrying or have a gun in a closet.

I don't see any way that kids won't figure out who is carrying. Also, that has nothing to do with the potential snapping of the teacher with access to the weapon.

 

[bignewt]

You completely missed the point. Israel protects it's schools. And malls, synagogues, etc. I'm pretty sure the Palestinians, etc. don't bother obeying Israel's gun laws.

Speaking of which, everyone in Israel is armed. Everyone. I have stood at a bus stop in Haifa and watched a guy walk by with a business satchel, and an AR over his shoulder.

There is mandatory military service in the IDF, with a few exemptions. But all current and former IDF personnel are armed. 24/7. Most of them carry handguns.

Of course, there is...or was...a mandatory prison sentence for a lost weapon, but if you walk into a coffee shop in Israel and pull a weapon, it's just a question of how many different angles you get shot from.

My point, again, was and is that we need to start with our schools; we need to make them hard targets; and we need to include trained and armed people as part of that strategy. That's all.

You cannot compare the population of Israel to the US...so many differences it would take all day. Just because it works in one place means nothing.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

You cannot compare the population of Israel to the US...so many differences it would take all day. Just because it works in one place means nothing.

Yes, yes...you're right. The fact that Israel is a country surrounded by sworn enemies who will exploit any weakness they find to kill Israelis (soldiers, citizens, children) has no parallel to the best way to make our schools safe from mentally disturbed active shooters.

Just because it works there in no way means that hardening our schools, and providing competent armed security would work here, right?

That's two completely different versions of "hard target", right?

C'mon man...a hard target is a hard target, regardless of the population of a nation, or how many kids are inside the school. That's like saying ABS works on a sedan, but would never work on a bus.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Yes, yes...you're right. The fact that Israel is a country surrounded by sworn enemies who will exploit any weakness they find to kill Israelis (soldiers, citizens, children) has no parallel to the best way to make our schools safe from mentally disturbed active shooters.

Just because it works there in no way means that hardening our schools, and providing competent armed security would work here, right?

That's two completely different versions of "hard target", right?

C'mon man...a hard target is a hard target, regardless of the population of a nation, or how many kids are inside the school. That's like saying ABS works on a sedan, but would never work on a bus.

Yeah..but to admit that weakens their disarmament agenda. They will not be happy till they get their way.

 

[utvolpj]

Google "Active Shooter in Israeli School". Get back to me on that.

Israel also has mandatory military service and homogeneous population. Are we just trading freedoms at this point?

 

[bignewt]

Yes, yes...you're right. The fact that Israel is a country surrounded by sworn enemies who will exploit any weakness they find to kill Israelis (soldiers, citizens, children) has no parallel to the best way to make our schools safe from mentally disturbed active shooters.

Just because it works there in no way means that hardening our schools, and providing competent armed security would work here, right?

That's two completely different versions of "hard target", right?

C'mon man...a hard target is a hard target, regardless of the population of a nation, or how many kids are inside the school. That's like saying ABS works on a sedan, but would never work on a bus.

In the broadest strokes you have Israel where every single person has the same set of ideals, are raised to value self preservation and live in constant awareness of a singular threat.

The US a melting pot with millions and millions of people containing multiple sets of ideals, values and living anywhere in a state of complete complacency to the world is ending tomorrow.

Yeah you're right should work the same in both countries.

 

[bignewt]

Yes, yes...you're right. The fact that Israel is a country surrounded by sworn enemies who will exploit any weakness they find to kill Israelis (soldiers, citizens, children) has no parallel to the best way to make our schools safe from mentally disturbed active shooters.

Just because it works there in no way means that hardening our schools, and providing competent armed security would work here, right?

That's two completely different versions of "hard target", right?

C'mon man...a hard target is a hard target, regardless of the population of a nation, or how many kids are inside the school. That's like saying ABS works on a sedan, but would never work on a bus.

Do you put the same ABS on a sedan you do a bus?

 

[hog88]

I don't see any way that kids won't figure out who is carrying. Also, that has nothing to do with the potential snapping of the teacher with access to the weapon.

You're worried about a teacher snapping and gunning down their kids yet you are ok with armed cops in schools?