Mass shooting of the week, high school in parkland, FL.

[SLICKYINC]

I would bet they aren't deciding for themselves but are being used and pushed what to say

We know that to be fact.

I want to see the pro-gun kids too because there were several that did interviews right after this crime happened but they just disappeared.

They have 100 kids that got on busses and are protesting. What about the kids who have different opinions? Where are they, why are they being ignored by the national media?

We all know why!

 

[InVOLuntary]

FYP. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if that was the case

So this is some conspiracy where kids are being brainwashed to shoot up their school? Sorry, not buying it.

 

[SLICKYINC]

letting a kid only decide for themselves (no parenting), or taking away all choices from them (helicopter) ultimately leads to the idiots eating tide pods. Kids need to make their own choices but with in put from a connected parent.

Ok this I agree with, but my kid is at school to learn. We've had conversations about walk outs. My wife and myself have made it clear that its not excusable to walk out of school for any political reason even if we agree with the cause.

 

[LouderVol]

Ok this I agree with, but my kid is at school to learn. We've had conversations about walk outs. My wife and myself have made it clear that its not excusable to walk out of school for any political reason even if we agree with the cause.

too each their own. I don't have kids so it is easy for me to say what I would and would not do. but I would say if they can stand up to me being devil's advocate and still feel strongly enough about they can do it. I would still hold them accountable to whatever they missed and wouldn't let it hurt their grades. but imo I doubt a day does that much, especially considering what else they have gone thru.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Spelling was always my Acheles heal.

Good one, luther. 😂

 

[oz615]

So this is some conspiracy where kids are being brainwashed to shoot up their school? Sorry, not buying it.

Only I said this is because of...

Behold! 1991 Book Warned Us Secret Government Would Use School Shootings To Disarm Americans!

The government encouraged the manufacture and importation of military firearms for the criminals to use. This is intended to foster a feeling of insecurity, which would lead the American people to voluntarily disarm themselves by passing laws against firearms. Using drugs and hypnosis on mental patients in a process called Orion, the CIA inculcated the desire in these people to open fire on schoolyards and thus inflame the antigun lobby. This plan is well under way, and so far is working perfectly. The middle class is begging the government to do away with the 2nd amendment.

In case you're wondering the book is titled "Behold a Pale Horse"

 

[BowlBrother85]

It’s funny that the left blames the right over gun control, yet why didn’t Obama and his caucus of innocents in Congress do anything to solve them when they had the power to do so? They could have passed amnesty. They could have banned, ahem, “assault weapons.” They didn’t. Why?

They didn’t ban them because they cared more about getting elected than they did about these supposed national emergencies. The Virginia Tech massacre was just two years old when Democrats assumed power in 2009, which also happened to be the 10th anniversary of the Columbine shootings. Rampage killings at American schools were very much on the national radar. But Democrats had a problem: Having inflamed right-wingers by passing a massive stimulus shortly after Obama was sworn in and then driven the right crazy by ramming ObamaCare through, they worried that pushing any more big-ticket Democratic priorities would cost them control of Congress in the midterms.

Why didn't Democrats pass gun control when they controlled Congress in Obama's first term?

There is a lot of deflection and conjecture to this. It pretends to understand the motives and logic of others. The fact is that the most egregious failure to act in gun control really can be completely placed at the feet of the right. In December of 2015, in the wake of the San Bernardino massacre in which 14 people were killed by two people who had pledged loyalty to ISIS, Senate Republicans rejected a bill that aimed to stop suspected terrorists from buying guns.

45 Senators voted for the bill and 54 voted against it. Only two Senators crossed party lines - Democratic Sen. Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota voted against it and Republican Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois voted for it. The stated logic from the NRA in opposing the measure was incredibly weak. They said that they want to ensure that people who are wrongly on the terrorist watch list are afforded their constitutional right to due process - but the bill provided for that! The bill allowed for people to legally challenge a denial by the Justice Dept. to purchase a firearm, if they believed they were mistakenly placed on the terrorist watch list.

Republicans have never demonstrated anything but cowardice before the NRA.

 

[luthervol]

or you could let your children decide for themselves instead of pushing them one way or another.

I think I used the word "encourage". I'm sure you're not insinuating that you believe parents should NOT encourage their children.

 

[lawgator1]

It’s funny that the left blames the right over gun control, yet why didn’t Obama and his caucus of innocents in Congress do anything to solve them when they had the power to do so? They could have passed amnesty. They could have banned, ahem, “assault weapons.” They didn’t. Why?

They didn’t ban them because they cared more about getting elected than they did about these supposed national emergencies. The Virginia Tech massacre was just two years old when Democrats assumed power in 2009, which also happened to be the 10th anniversary of the Columbine shootings. Rampage killings at American schools were very much on the national radar. But Democrats had a problem: Having inflamed right-wingers by passing a massive stimulus shortly after Obama was sworn in and then driven the right crazy by ramming ObamaCare through, they worried that pushing any more big-ticket Democratic priorities would cost them control of Congress in the midterms.

Why didn't Democrats pass gun control when they controlled Congress in Obama's first term?

First, the problem is not right or left in the sense purely of Republican and Democrat. As discussed here repeatedly, the overwhelming majority of Republicans, with very few exceptions, are NRA stooges on gun control. A minority of Dems are also,m but it is not "left" or "right," it is primarily regional.

Second, what you are really saying here is that the Dem party could have worked to curb access to guns when it was in power. My response is that Obama did put in place limits on assault rifles, and that was lifted by the GOP. The Dems in local areas attempted some restrictions, but were stopped in the courts by the NRA.

So what you can glean from this is the following truisms: 1) As long as the GOP controls the Congress and the WH, the odds of any meaningful gun restrictions being enacted are exactly ZERO. None. Nada. Zilch. 2) If the Dems are in control, there is at least some chance for meaningful reform. It will be limited by the courts to reasonable restrictions, and there will be elements in the party that fight it for the NRA, but literally the country's only chance if it wants reform is to put Dems in control.

 

[LouderVol]

There is a lot of deflection and conjecture to this. It pretends to understand the motives and logic of others. The fact is that the most egregious failure to act in gun control really can be completely placed at the feet of the right. In December of 2015, in the wake of the San Bernardino massacre in which 14 people were killed by two people who had pledged loyalty to ISIS, Senate Republicans rejected a bill that aimed to stop suspected terrorists from buying guns.

45 Senators voted for the bill and 54 voted against it. Only two Senators crossed party lines - Democratic Sen. Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota voted against it and Republican Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois voted for it. The stated logic from the NRA in opposing the measure was incredibly weak. They said that they want to ensure that people who are wrongly on the terrorist watch list are afforded their constitutional right to due process - but the bill provided for that! The bill allowed for people to legally challenge a denial by the Justice Dept. to purchase a firearm, if they believed they were mistakenly placed on the terrorist watch list.

Republicans have never demonstrated anything but cowardice before the NRA.

its my understanding that you weren't told if you were on the list or not until you tried to do something. and you had to appeal early on. Hard for due process to happen if you don't even know you are being tried.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I think I used the word "encourage". I'm sure you're not insinuating that you believe parents should NOT encourage their children.

You also used the words greatly disappointed so would you vocalize that disappointment in an attempt to modify their behavior or would you keep your disappointment to yourself and respect their choice?

 

[LouderVol]

I think I used the word "encourage". I'm sure you're not insinuating that you believe parents should NOT encourage their children.

you were responding to someone saying that the kids shouldn't be going and that the parents should stop them. you made it sound like you would be cheering them on, not necessarily offering advice on the situation.

 

[BowlBrother85]

its my understanding that you weren't told if you were on the list or not until you tried to do something. and you had to appeal early on. Hard for due process to happen if you don't even know you are being tried.

I don't know what you mean by "you had to appeal early on". And it is ridiculous that we are banning people in this country from getting on a plane but those same people can be completely within their rights to buy guns.

 

[NorthDallas40]

you were responding to someone saying that the kids shouldn't be going and that the parents should stop them. you made it sound like you would be cheering them on, not necessarily offering advice on the situation.

Luther and his kind would never use such a tragic event to further their agenda. Cheer them on indeed. *hrumph*

 

[LouderVol]

First, the problem is not right or left in the sense purely of Republican and Democrat. As discussed here repeatedly, the overwhelming majority of Republicans, with very few exceptions, are NRA stooges on gun control. A minority of Dems are also,m but it is not "left" or "right," it is primarily regional.

Second, what you are really saying here is that the Dem party could have worked to curb access to guns when it was in power. My response is that Obama did put in place limits on assault rifles, and that was lifted by the GOP. The Dems in local areas attempted some restrictions, but were stopped in the courts by the NRA.

So what you can glean from this is the following truisms: 1) As long as the GOP controls the Congress and the WH, the odds of any meaningful gun restrictions being enacted are exactly ZERO. None. Nada. Zilch. 2) If the Dems are in control, there is at least some chance for meaningful reform. It will be limited by the courts to reasonable restrictions, and there will be elements in the party that fight it for the NRA, but literally the country's only chance if it wants reform is to put Dems in control.

hold up, is it really the NRA holding someone up if the courts are upholding a law, or striking one down?

 

[luthervol]

Of course you would. Who cares if they break the rules and violate truancy laws, all over a cause none of them have a single scintilla of knowledge about? Every one of them should receive unexcused absences, and I hope they do.

“Them bastardized guns, how dare they become animate and shoot up our school.”

Schtick like this, among other things, is the problem. Parents refusing to discipline their kids and kids needing a good ole ass whooping.... yes, including yours, if in fact you’d encourage this behavior.

I can think of nothing more sadly ignorant than you offering me parenting advice.

As much as I would love as a father, to list the accomplishments and successes of my children, I'll refrain (for now at least).

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Number of incidents over the past 30 years as a function of total within the population.

So it's bearing and not baring? Thanks, unfortunately it will be one of those things I will probably never remember. Spelling was always my Acheles heal.

Weren’t there hundreds of bombings in the US during the 70’s? What explains that?

 

[LouderVol]

I don't know what you mean by "you had to appeal early on". And it is ridiculous that we are banning people in this country from getting on a plane but those same people can be completely within their rights to buy guns.

if you wanted to buy a gun but were on the list you had to get the ball rolling early. It wouldn't have been a quick fix to get off the list. again especially considering a significant time may have passed.

 

[luthervol]

You also used the words greatly disappointed so would you vocalize that disappointment in an attempt to modify their behavior or would you keep your disappointment to yourself and respect their choice?

I'm not getting into a debate on personal parenting. I'm sure many of us have very successful children and probably no two of us raised them the same way. My children have been very successful and are happy and well adjusted.

Sometimes a parent should swallow their disappointments and sometimes a parent should let them be known.

I have pretty much always let my children make their own decisions, but that's been easy because most every decision they have ever made has been the correct one. I've been lucky.

 

[BowlBrother85]

if you wanted to buy a gun but were on the list you had to get the ball rolling early. It wouldn't have been a quick fix to get off the list. again especially considering a significant time may have passed.

It shouldn't be a quick fix! Good lord.

 

[luthervol]

Luther and his kind would never use such a tragic event to further their agenda. Cheer them on indeed. *hrumph*

I think the students who were directly effected have every right to respond in this way.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

It shouldn't be a quick fix! Good lord.

Even if you are on the list by mistake? Do you even due process, bro?

 

[lawgator1]

hold up, is it really the NRA holding someone up if the courts are upholding a law, or striking one down?

The NRA is funding the litigation.

Now, if you want to get into whether for example Heller should be revisited by a more centrist or moderate court, I'm certainly for that.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I'm not getting into a debate on personal parenting. I'm sure many of us have very successful children and probably no two of us raised them the same way. My children have been very successful and are happy and well adjusted.

Sometimes a parent should swallow their disappointments and sometimes a parent should let them be known.

I have pretty much always let my children make their own decisions, but that's been easy because most every decision they have ever made has been the correct one. I've been lucky.

Fair statement. I can agree with this as typed. Could argue that you opened it up with a couple of previous posts but frankly if you’re kids are not infringing on other people (and I have no reason to believe they are and am not implying they are) then pretty much how you raise them is your own damn business.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Even if you are on the list by mistake? Do you even due process, bro?

That is such a small percentage of the population impacted by being on the terrorist watch list by mistake. I know it happens... but inconveniencing those people should be a price we are willing to pay for keeping terrorists from having legal access to guns.

The NRA doesn't want ANY restriction of any sort because of this unfounded fear of a "slippery slope".