Mass shooting of the week, high school in parkland, FL.

[Mick]

Their should be a medical evaluation before you are allowed to drive a car or vote...

Maybe they should be required to have a license like everyone that is able to drive. Have it renewed every 5 years. Pay the tax on your firearms every year like an automobile registrations. Pay taxes on a firearm that you sell just like automobiles.

 

[OuterBanksVol]

I tip my hat to you gun non-control advocates. You win! And, consequently, 17 teenagers in Florida die.

Congratulations!

 

[82_VOL_83]

No, the debate needs to start with both sides willing to give on issues. GV and I started a horse trading debate on this topic and progress can be made, but the issue isn't as simple as either side would have you believe.

I am no longer willing to surrender any of my freedoms for the sake of negotiation. That is where your argument falls off the table.

 

[Grand Vol]

Maybe they should be required to have a license like everyone that is able to drive. Have it renewed every 5 years. Pay the tax on your firearms every year like an automobile registrations. Pay taxes on a firearm that you sell just like automobiles.

That's exactly what we need. More money for the government to waste.

 

[hog88]

Maybe they should be required to have a license like everyone that is able to drive. Have it renewed every 5 years. Pay the tax on your firearms every year like an automobile registrations. Pay taxes on a firearm that you sell just like automobiles.

Sales tax is charged on firearms. And unless you want to drive on a public road you don't have to pay for registration of a vehicle.

 

[hog88]

I tip my hat to you gun non-control advocates. You win! And, consequently, 17 teenagers in Florida die.

Congratulations!

Screeeeeech.

You're getting better than LG at it.

 

[Squints]

I tip my hat to you gun non-control advocates. You win! And, consequently, 17 teenagers in Florida die.

Congratulations!

You’re entitled to all the control you can handle - don’t buy them!

That’ll show them.

And the coach, he was a teenager?

 

[davethevol]

Actually no. If you compare the number of AR's sold to the number of incidences of them being used to actually kill innocent people you would find out just how stupid your statement is. The AR platform is used now for a lot of hunting and for general target shooting and recreation. If these guns were made to kill people then I would hazard a guess and say there wouldn't be many liberal left if every AR killed 20 liberals.

I wonder what the numbers are. Let’s say 100,000 AR-15’s are sold every year and 10 are used in violent crimes. If that’s the case, then it’s hard to say it’s a gun control problem.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Yep. How did they ever deal with the pain 30-40 years ago?

It’s not just pain.

High blood pressure, take a pill.

High cholesterol, take a pill.

Diabetes, take a pill.

Trouble being bright eyed and bushy tailed, take a pill.

More and more these pills are treating the symptoms, not the underlying cause. Antidepressants don’t cure depression anymore than HBP medication cures HBP. Putting someone on pills and hoping it goes away is a recipe for problems. But more and more people are unwilling to accept responsibility for their own problems. They’re not fat because they eat too much, they’re fat because their thyroid is out of whack. Their blood pressure isn’t their fault, it’s genetics. They like the pills because the pills say of course it’s not your fault, you’re doing everything you can. This is just helping correct an issue not of your making. It’s a shortcut to a solution that is untenable and potentially dangerous.

 

[Grand Vol]

This is...unexpected from the WaPo.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.bb0be2a21ba2

The figure originated with Everytown for Gun Safety, a nonprofit, co-founded by Michael Bloomberg, that works to prevent gun violence and is most famous for its running tally of school shootings.

“This,” the organization tweeted at 4:22 p.m., “is the 18th school shooting in the U.S. in 2018.”

Sen. Bernie Sanders’s tweet including the claim has been liked more than 45,000 times, and one from political analyst Jeff Greenfield has cracked 116,000. New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio tweeted it, too, as did musicians Cher and Alexander William and actors Misha Collins and Albert Brooks. News organizations — including MSNBC, ABC News, NBC News, CBS News, TIME, MSN, the BBC, the New York Daily News and the Huffington Post — also used the number in their coverage. By Wednesday night, the top suggested search after typing “18” into Google was “18 school shootings in 2018.”

It is a horrifying statistic. And it is wrong.

 

[zeppelin128]

Well...that also coincides with the demand for acceptance of mental health issues that 20-30 years ago were deemed as problematic.

Transgender for example. Sorry, science tells us you either have an XY or an XX set of chromosomes. You think you're something else? (obvious exceptions for hermaphrodites) Sorry, that's a mental health issue. There are two proven genders in science and any argument against that is false at the base levels. But we are being led to believe such things are not only ordinary, they are healthy.

WTF?

No, if you can pee and write your name in the snow without major twerking, you are a dude. Zero room for error here.

But regardless, mental health science has decided certain things that should stand out as red flags can and should be tolerated in society as a whole. Demand it practically. That medications and brief sessions of counseling can overcome the mental deficiencies inherent in people who may be a threat to themselves or others. Can't buy it.

Disclaimer: I am not saying transgender people are a threat, just an example of the way the mental health field has changed in the last 20-30 years.

Anyway, thoughts on that line.

I don't agree with the analogue you used (not the thread to discuss that), but I think we are in agreement on the premise.

 

[Mick]

This is...unexpected from the WaPo.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.bb0be2a21ba2

It just illustrates how misinformation can spread and be believed. I bet the top results were from those sites. Repeat something long enough and loud enough it will be believed and the facts will get buried.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Why, because you couldn’t provide a cogent answer to the things I proposed several pages back?

Typical liberal BS. When you can’t manipulate the conversation to your favor, you resort to ad hominem retorts.

I don't even know what you're talking about. You've acted like an overly aggressive buffoon throughout this thread. I'm not sure why, but for most of it I have simply been an observer and you aren't scoring the points you think you are scoring.

 

[Grand Vol]

It just illustrates how misinformation can spread and be believed. I bet the top results were from those sites. Repeat something long enough and loud enough it will be believed and the facts will get buried.

So, you're saying the anti gun lobby put out false information?

 

[zeppelin128]

It just illustrates how misinformation can spread and be believed. I bet the top results were from those sites. Repeat something long enough and loud enough it will be believed and the facts will get buried.

I fell for it and posted it in this thread yesterday. The definition used to arrive at the number 18 ended up being rather suspect, which I missed.

 

[luthervol]

Yes because one always puts a bandaid over the infection and let's it sit for days until you figure out the bandaid didn't and won't fix the problem.

Nothing is going to fix the problem. There are only things that will make the problems less frequent and severe.

Sort of like car accidents. There will always be car accidents. How frequent and how deadly are the issues. And just as with car accidents, there are many common sense things on many fronts that can and should be done.

 

[luthervol]

Actually no. If you compare the number of AR's sold to the number of incidences of them being used to actually kill innocent people you would find out just how stupid your statement is. The AR platform is used now for a lot of hunting and for general target shooting and recreation. If these guns were made to kill people then I would hazard a guess and say there wouldn't be many liberal left if every AR killed 20 liberals.

They were designed to kill. That doesn't mean they are not used for other purposes. Get a clue.

 

[tumscalcium]

They were designed to kill. That doesn't mean they are not used for other purposes. Get a clue.

Cars are designed to kill. I bet you use them for other prurposes.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

I am no longer willing to surrender any of my freedoms for the sake of negotiation. That is where your argument falls off the table.

Nope, but sooner or later that approach will prove a loser for you.

 

[lawgator1]

Reasonable, but I'm thinking the FBI cannot (and likely should not) be responsible for investigating every potentially crazy person.

I agree. They can do the list of the do not buys and make sure it pops up if one of them tries to buy. As for everything else, than can be local.

Temporarily, but generally still based on probable cause. Which brings the questions of "how" and "why" it's determined in the first place.

You honestly trust teachers and school administrators that much?

Its probable cause to seize long enough to evaluate the threat. Teachers and school officials are in the best place to figure that out. If they say a kid is a potential threat, I think that should be enough to deprive the kid of guns long enough to assess it.

Will they sometimes overreact? Sure. But weighed against the value of the few times they are right, its worth it, especially with the mechanism in place to get off the list.

So, we take the parents' word for it? And what happens if they do not have a way of securing it? You've now seized the property of those who are not committing any crime whatsoever and are only "guilty" by means of relationship to the accused party.

I have a hunch that when parents are told their kid has been assigned this status, all of them will want to be sure there are no guns around. Its really unlikely to be an issue.

 

[Mick]

I fell for it and posted it in this thread yesterday. The definition used to arrive at the number 18 ended up being rather suspect, which I missed.

You won't hear the breitbart and fox news crowd admit they were ever mislead. Way to stand up and take responsibility. You are more of a man than any of those people.

Que the meme.

 

[Grand Vol]

Nope, but sooner or later that approach will prove a loser for you.

Eventually, one must stand and make their voice heard.

I think we just did that with SchiaNO

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Eventually, one must stand and make their voice heard.

I think we just did that with SchiaNO

Unfortunately, in this case the pendulum is swinging towards much stricter control. Last poll I saw, roughly 60% of the population felt guns were the main problem and they wanted more restrictions. Refusing to even hold a discussion will swing it even further.

 

[Grand Vol]

Its probable cause to seize long enough to evaluate the threat. Teachers and school officials are in the best place to figure that out. If they say a kid is a potential threat, I think that should be enough to deprive the kid of guns long enough to assess it.

Doesn't pass the "reasonable belief" test.

We are also not just talking about children here. Shouldn't this same program be implemented for adults?

Will they sometimes overreact? Sure. But weighed against the value of the few times they are right, its worth it, especially with the mechanism in place to get off the list.

Now, here's the problem. You place faith in them to determine the right from wrong and would gladly allow them a pass on the 999 times they are wrong. Sorry, but I think there needs to be far stricter criteria for reporting in the first place and not just a "gut feeling."

I don't disagree on the principle if it prohibits one of these mass shootings from occurring. I do disagree on the amount of leeway you seem to be giving to educators.

But again, the system you are proposing is designed for abuse. And again, at what point are the wolf criers ignored and dismissed?

I have a hunch that when parents are told their kid has been assigned this status, all of them will want to be sure there are no guns around. Its really unlikely to be an issue.

Disagree. Most parents these days don't think their children's poo smells and would defend them to the nth degree.

 

[Grand Vol]

Unfortunately, in this case the pendulum is swinging towards much stricter control. Last poll I saw, roughly 60% of the population felt guns were the main problem and they wanted more restrictions. Refusing to even hold a discussion will swing it even further.

I won't get into the validity of polls, but after Sandy Hook, I think the percentage was up to 70% or higher if memory serves.

After about six weeks, and constant education, that number dropped significantly to around 50%.

Facts are finicky things. The media as a whole won't report the "facts" or report bogus/twisted information (see my post about the WaPo article) because it won't sell papers or buy ad time.