HOLLY could be the worst coach....

#76
#76
Coaches can't be excellent at every aspect of the game or they wouldn't have need of assistants. Assistants are more than just eyes,., they often are sought out for the very reason you are looking at....Mom can't be a Dad. I KNOW I can't be a Mom...Yen and yang... My daughter can't batt her eyelids and melt her mom's heart, nor can she influence me by telling me "it is 50% off?" ......... 50% off - Of what?

Holly did get in their face yesterday. From my seat I was able to see everything during timeouts and stoppages. Dean was vocal. Bridgette was vocal. ...The bottom line was CHW did do something to try to change the game (getting the girl's attention by getting upset) and that is exactly what the girls needed. They never went into their funk this game. It was decided early and stayed decided.

Also, Mercedes didn't disappear during this game. In fact, she was downright aggressive at times. We've got players stepping up and having career games, when the senior leaders have off-games. This team is ready for its second run. It more closely resembles the team at the start a little more now.



CHW seems to be trying to do things to get ready for it too. She time-out'ed to stop a run and got in the girls faces during that TO...She rested our starters much earlier in this game starting to bring them out at 4:41...CHW will never be the in-your-face that Pat could be....But she has three assistants who have to step up and be what CHW isn't, in the coaching world. . .
"Reading players for the exact need that they have at that moment" is not a fundamental basketball coaching trait. It is a personal trait that is developed from years of working with players and learning personalities and pushing buttons until you learn "which" button to push to turn a kids game.

We coaches are students of the game, yes, but we specialize, just like players do. I prefer to work with forwards, so I study the techniques of teaching players in that position much more than I would a PG....therefore, I choose a PG coach.


CHW will never be the in-your-face that Pat could be....But she has three assistants who have to step up and be what CHW isn't, in the coaching world, You Said this and i agree with you 100% and that`s the problem with this team now. Hey look some may not like her, I watched Joanne P. McCallie rip one of her players against wake in there face. Not sure if she is a freshmen also rip Jade Williams face to face to.
 
#77
#77
CHW will never be the in-your-face that Pat could be....But she has three assistants who have to step up and be what CHW isn't, in the coaching world, You Said this and i agree with you 100% and that`s the problem with this team now. Hey look some may not like her, I watched Joanne P. McCallie rip one of her players against wake in there face. Not sure if she is a freshmen also rip Jade Williams face to face to.

In this past game I saw Dean and Bridgette talking to and talking with players at pre and post timeouts...When communication is good at the bench and energy is high, then it filters out onto the floor. Like it did last game..like it did in our early run this season.
 
#78
#78
Holly will never match Pat Summits dominance. Pat Summit could not match her own dominance if coaching today. There are simply more highly skilled female players/coaches than in her prime. More players/coaches equal more high quality teams to defeat. Still, when you have a complete team of McDonalds all-americans you would think a coach could crack the top ten and field a team that did not turn the ball over 30 times in a game 3/4 of the way into the season? I don't know maybe its just me?
 
#79
#79
Holly will never match Pat Summits dominance. Pat Summit could not match her own dominance if coaching today. There are simply more highly skilled female players/coaches than in her prime. More players/coaches equal more high quality teams to defeat. Still, when you have a complete team of McDonalds all-americans you would think a coach could crack the top ten and field a team that did not turn the ball over 30 times in a game 3/4 of the way into the season? I don't know maybe its just me?
what about Duke and KY men with all their AA losing to unranked teams and lesser opponents? Who's at fault?
 
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#80
#80
Coaches can't be excellent at every aspect of the game or they wouldn't have need of assistants. Assistants are more than just eyes,., they often are sought out for the very reason you are looking at....Mom can't be a Dad. I KNOW I can't be a Mom...Yen and yang... My daughter can't batt her eyelids and melt her mom's heart, nor can she influence me by telling me "it is 50% off?" ......... 50% off - Of what?
Holly did get in their face yesterday. From my seat I was able to see everything during timeouts and stoppages. Dean was vocal. Bridgette was vocal. ...The bottom line was CHW did do something to try to change the game (getting the girl's attention by getting upset) and that is exactly what the girls needed. They never went into their funk this game. It was decided early and stayed decided.

Also, Mercedes didn't disappear during this game. In fact, she was downright aggressive at times. We've got players stepping up and having career games, when the senior leaders have off-games. This team is ready for its second run. It more closely resembles the team at the start a little more now.



CHW seems to be trying to do things to get ready for it too. She time-out'ed to stop a run and got in the girls faces during that TO...She rested our starters much earlier in this game starting to bring them out at 4:41...CHW will never be the in-your-face that Pat could be....But she has three assistants who have to step up and be what CHW isn't, in the coaching world. . .
"Reading players for the exact need that they have at that moment" is not a fundamental basketball coaching trait. It is a personal trait that is developed from years of working with players and learning personalities and pushing buttons until you learn "which" button to push to turn a kids game.

We coaches are students of the game, yes, but we specialize, just like players do. I prefer to work with forwards, so I study the techniques of teaching players in that position much more than I would a PG....therefore, I choose a PG coach.
On Mercedes seeming energized - I saw her actually jump at least 4 times this game. It was exciting to see her putting in some real effort even in the 4th quarter!:clapping::clapping:
 
#81
#81
what about Duke and KY men with all their AA losing to unranked teams and lesser opponents? Who's at fault?
Men's college basketball is completely different.
The very best players Duke gets leave after 1 year.
It's possible to "upset" them more frequently because very often it's their super talented freshmen against the other team's seasoned but less talented upperclassmen.
Also, their coach has NC's. He's already proven his coaching ability.
 
#82
#82
There are empty headed mistakes on the floor in the areas of passing, shooting, dribbling,,,walking :)gone:.

Those same passes that we ooh and ahh over are the same ones that are blamed on being flashy...Guess what, the girls game has grown up. They can do look-aways, wrap-arounds, behind the backs, drop-passes,,,just the same as they can do cross-overs, fade-aways, and dunks...

Along with the game, the skill level has risen in younger players. They come in with skills like these and they got "noticed" by using them. This is why I applaud these freshmen. They have no fear of failure, ergo, no fear blocking success.

You got to risk it to get the biskit...As a coach, yes I want them to play within their game. As a coach I want them to expand their game too.

My two hard fast rules for "Flashy passes" or ANY thing that happens on my court:



1- It's only showing off if it isn't part of your everyday game.


2- If isn't something you practice continually, it isn't part of your everyday game.

:yess::rock2:
 
#83
#83
In this past game I saw Dean and Bridgette talking to and talking with players at pre and post timeouts...When communication is good at the bench and energy is high, then it filters out onto the floor. Like it did last game..like it did in our early run this season.

i agree you make a good point. I`m not sure why Holly just jump up and down on the sideline, To me that`s just a waste of time.
 
#84
#84
I feel the same frustration when watching "home run" passes go out of bounds. But, the general ethos of this team is to push pace (and the Lvs are generally better in that mode than the slower half court set). So, the reality is this; a player like Westbrook sees a small opening and threads the needle with a pass leading to a score; then, she is a floor general and we cheer about great team work we have. But sometimes, a player like Westbrook sees a small opening and tries to thread the need with a pass but it does not work out -- then we scream and curse about bad decision making and the lack of coaching and discipline! However, those plays are the twin sides of the same coin.

What gets me more upset are cases where the TOs come from indecisiveness; holding the ball, dribbling and then getting caught in a double team; or a lack of concentration where a fairly simple pass is either off target or bobbled out of bounds.

As for clock management, I would rather see the LVs get a shot up (if open and even early) if we have rebounders in position. The LVs odds of making the shot or getting the offensive put back are probably better than our slow down game, which all to often seems to end up in a TO (see above).

In sum, I think the most legitimate criticism of Holly is that our half court offense is still subpar but this has a been a long term problem for the LVs going back to the CP3 era and before) and which inspired CPS to try various experiments with motion offense or the triangle. During the CP3 era, the half court offense more often than not came to down, run an isolation for CP3 (which is not a bad strategy). Unfortunately, players like that don't come along too often, though Davis is showing some potential to be that kind of shot creator.

Excellent post.
 
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#85
#85
Men's college basketball is completely different.
The very best players Duke gets leave after 1 year.
It's possible to "upset" them more frequently because very often it's their super talented freshmen against the other team's seasoned but less talented upperclassmen.
Also, their coach has NC's. He's already proven his coaching ability.

But not different in a way to prove your point.

Duke loses players but get new ones in. They are still a team of AA's. And women players also transfer and get hurt, which is why we have a LV team playing a lot of freshmen. And those freshmen could be easily upset by teams of juniors & seniors.

Yes, Coach K has proven himself, and yet even HE still loses to unranked teams.

And Coach K has a LOT more than 5 years head coaching experience, but he still says, "I don't know why we lost."
 
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#86
#86
But not different in a way to prove your point.

Duke loses players but get new ones in. They are still a team of AA's. And women players also transfer and get hurt, which is why we have a LV team playing a lot of freshmen. And those freshmen could be easily upset by teams of juniors & seniors.

Yes, Coach K has proven himself, and yet even HE still loses to unranked teams.

And Coach K has a LOT more than 5 years head coaching experience, but he still says, "I don't know why we lost."

I have seen Coach K put his hands on his hips too!
 
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#87
#87
But not different in a way to prove your point.

Duke loses players but get new ones in. They are still a team of AA's. And women players also transfer and get hurt, which is why we have a LV team playing a lot of freshmen. And those freshmen could be easily upset by teams of juniors & seniors.

Yes, Coach K has proven himself, and yet even HE still loses to unranked teams.

And Coach K has a LOT more than 5 years head coaching experience, but he still says, "I don't know why we lost."

I'm curious, what do you think my point was ?
 
#88
#88
Well, she certainly has a lot of learning/growing to do. What happens next year when MR and Nared are gone? The best 4 players on your team play 1-3. Gonna still force the ball inside or are you gonna let these ladies play? I suggest you get these bugs outta the paint and set some picks for these ladies so they have sone space and lanes to work. It has been a long while since the top players on the lady Vols have not been 4s and 5s.
 
#89
#89
But not different in a way to prove your point.

Duke loses players but get new ones in. They are still a team of AA's. And women players also transfer and get hurt, which is why we have a LV team playing a lot of freshmen. And those freshmen could be easily upset by teams of juniors & seniors.

Yes, Coach K has proven himself, and yet even HE still loses to unranked teams.

And Coach K has a LOT more than 5 years head coaching experience, but he still says, "I don't know why we lost."

Well now there we have it. Even Coach K says it so let's just settle for what we have. We've been creating every excuse imaginable for continual under performing so let's continue to do it. We have two classes of fans here. Those who long for a return to greatness and those who accept mediocrity
 
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#90
#90
Well now there we have it. Even Coach K says it so let's just settle for what we have. We've been creating every excuse imaginable for continual under performing so let's continue to do it. We have two classes of fans here. Those who long for a return to greatness and those who accept mediocrity

False and delusional. IÂ’m more than positive we ALL want to get back to championship basketball. We ALL want to get past the EE and back to a FF. LetÂ’s not start false delusions here.
 
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#91
#91
Well now there we have it. Even Coach K says it so let's just settle for what we have. We've been creating every excuse imaginable for continual under performing so let's continue to do it. We have two classes of fans here. Those who long for a return to greatness and those who accept mediocrity

I think anybody who isn't a troller on this site, all want a quick return to prominence. By most accounts, we ARE prominent now. But those of us who experienced the Pat Summitt experience as it was happening and felt saw what such a dominating coach could do for a university and even more, a gender....Yes, we all want to get back to top four and stay there.

We opened the season with a historic run...We went through a "last year" flashback for 6 games...We are now on a win streak again... "Perfect Storm" time again

We've got a top recruiting class following a top recruiting class...this shows that it's not only us who want a return to greatness,,,the ones who recruited those kids must want it too.........and those recruits who chose UT over other programs,,,They're not coming here for anything other than a chance to propel us to greatness.

It's all "there" and ready for that return
 
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#92
#92
Holly is not the worst. Not even close, but the Lady Vols deserve one of the best. With the fan base, recruiting history, tradition, and facilities, it should be the crowning jewel on the resume of a high performing, successful coach. We should aim higher.
 
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#93
#93
Men's college basketball is completely different.
The very best players Duke gets leave after 1 year.
It's possible to "upset" them more frequently because very often it's their super talented freshmen against the other team's seasoned but less talented upperclassmen.
Also, their coach has NC's. He's already proven his coaching ability.
but he is still coaching AA's, the best of the best, they are freshmen and they make mistakes but it's okay if you've won a NC? How long has coach K been a head coach? Holly?
Come on now. The games may be different but the theory the same, he is still coaching freshmen AA's and they make freshmen mistakes despite him being a great coach. Not saying Holly is a great coach but come on.
 
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#94
#94
I did notice that a MUCH bigger deal has been made by Tennessee about the "42nd consecutive 20-win season" than I would have expected.

Twenty-win seasons are supposed to be a given at Tennessee. It used to be rare not to win 30!

I missed that NCAA rule
 
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#95
#95
Holly will never match Pat Summits dominance. Pat Summit could not match her own dominance if coaching today. There are simply more highly skilled female players/coaches than in her prime. More players/coaches equal more high quality teams to defeat. Still, when you have a complete team of McDonalds all-americans you would think a coach could crack the top ten and field a team that did not turn the ball over 30 times in a game 3/4 of the way into the season? I don't know maybe its just me?

I think it is you and his "coach summit" person. I wonder if she is an attention to detail type.
 
#97
#97
but he is still coaching AA's, the best of the best, they are freshmen and they make mistakes but it's okay if you've won a NC? How long has coach K been a head coach? Holly?
Come on now. The games may be different but the theory the same, he is still coaching freshmen AA's and they make freshmen mistakes despite him being a great coach. Not saying Holly is a great coach but come on.

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. I agree that freshmen make mistakes. The difference between Duke's men's program and our women's program is that our 2 best players are seniors (who are also 2 of the top 4 seniors in the sec). Because of the way men's college basketball is structured, that will never happen at Duke. I brought up the fact that coach K has won NCAA championships to illustrate that he's earned some latitude when his team doesn't perform up to standards. Something that Holly has not done to date. I posted at the start of the season that I didn't think the LV"s would make the final four either this year or next because of their over dependence on underclassmen.
At which point a few posters said there would be no excuses this year because of our level of talent.
I'm not a huge fan of Holly as a head coach. But, I didn't expect them to have a better record than they do, at this point in the season. The question is, are they getting better or not ?
 
#98
#98
Holly is not the worst. Not even close, but the Lady Vols deserve one of the best. With the fan base, recruiting history, tradition, and facilities, it should be the crowning jewel on the resume of a high performing, successful coach. We should aim higher.

I agree that Holly is not the worst HC. However, she will be one of the most difficult to release due to her association with UT as a player and assistant coach.
 
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I'm curious, what do you think my point was ?

Your point:

That elite men's teams losing to an unranked team is completely different than LV. Men's teams with quality players lose because of the composition of the team, not because of poor coaching.

Therefore, LV losing with AA is still Holly's fault.


(Which is wrong. )
 
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