The Official 2nd Amendment Appreciation Thread

#5,026
#5,026
Grand Vol said:
The JSP will also punch through soft body armor including Level II and IIIA with zero problems. As for car doors and whatnot, the JSP rounds are "barrier blind" meaning they are designed to go through auto glass, sheet metal, drywall, etc and still function as desired.

As for cinder blocks, I'd test that theory...

The whole reason the FBI went to a JSP and SOCOM to the "Optimized" brown tip (it's more or less a Barnes solid copper 70 grain TSX is because the issue ammo was not getting it done with barriers in place. Again, can't tell you much about the M855AA1, but it's not available anyway. But the "Optimized" round is the one that took out Bin Laden. Kind of a neat feather to have in one's hat.

And before you ask, I'm not, repeat NOT, telling you more about the Optimized, nor where to buy, nor raising the ire of Mrs. GW over your junkie habit of buying ammo. Your JSP is just fine. And the Optimized won't work out of your rifle anyway. (your twist rate sucks)

Anyway, carrying 855 and the JSP is kind of like buying a Ferari and using your stock 1985 Escort for street races. There really isn't a good reason to carry both when they both punch armor, punch glass, punch sheet metal, but one was designed to do it slightly better than the other.

You want to take out cinder blocks? Buy a Barrett.
Click to expand...

I know about the brown tips because of where I work. The Firearms Division has them. Yeah, the 1/9 was the only drawback to the Colt HBAR, but it shoots 62gr and 64gr just fine (well, out to 50 yards), and I've been told if I stay inside of 200 yds, the HBAR will shoot anything in 5.56 just fine. Haven't tested it, but that came from folks who have their ballistic tables in their heads.

FYI, I sighted in for what's called "Maximum Point Blank Range" (easy to find on the internet), which for me means zeroed at 50 yards. From 25 to 200, I can hold the dot center mass, and hit within 3 inches at those ranges.

I trust you when it comes to 5.56. You've never told me wrong, so I'll go back and reload those 2 mags with the XM556SBCT. But FYI, the 62gr green tips (XM855), will in fact punch a cinder block wall. Well, at least a cinder block.

As for "Mrs. GW", she's fine with you. I've actually shown her a number of your posts. She has remarked...more than once...that if I listened to her as well as I heed your advice, life around here would be just peachy. Obviously, I kept my mouth shut. Good woman.

I shot a Barrett M82 way back when. Wow. Not for me, but since you mentioned it, I do have a Springfield SOCOM on my wish list. Don't know why...just want one.

Thanks, again, for the help. Keep safe out there in Indian Country.
 
#5,028
#5,028
Grand Vol said:
Have you tried your JSPs on cinder blocks?

But more to the point, when did one attack you last?
Click to expand...

(sigh)...No, and never. Unless you count the time I missed the door walking out of a hole-in-the-wall bar in Clinton, Tennessee. But that was a long time ago, so...

Go Vols.
 
#5,029
#5,029
GreyWolf1129 said:
(sigh)...No, and never. Unless you count the time I missed the door walking out of a hole-in-the-wall bar in Clinton, Tennessee. But that was a long time ago, so...

Go Vols.
Click to expand...

Actually, part of the reason why the .mil was thinking of going to a larger caliber is the 5.56 didn't have the necessary penetration to go through cinder block walls. Troops needed to "chew" their way through in order to penetrate.

Hence, why we have the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel at this point. Both rounds came out of that study, but the 6.8 SPC gained more traction since the Army had a hand in it's development and the 6.5 Grendel was designed in house by Bill Alexander (of Alexander Arms). But both provided a "heavier hitting" round out to standard infantry engagement distances (at the time) and weren't going to lose much on the total round count in the weapon nor weigh a soldier down like a 7.62 would. However, you also saw a resurgence of 7.62 rifles around that time and also the AR-10 platform getting developed into it's full "potential" as an infantry based system.

The main difference was the 6.8 was designed for a shorter barrel while the 6.5 needed a longer barrel to achieve it's full potential. However, the 6.5 is a 1,000 yard rifle when you take advantage of the longer barrel while the 6.8 was going to be a lob into the target.

Anyway, just a little FYI, the 5.56 was never designed to totally "go through" cinder blocks unless you have the M995 round. And then it's nothing more than an ice pick against personnel. Basically, it doesn't have a good temporary or permanent wound channel and won't fragment. And you'll never find any since, to my knowledge, it's never been sold outside of the DoD even to police.

Just some FYI.
 
#5,030
#5,030
But GW, if you are going to look at an M14 pattern rifle and a Springfield in particular, I'd look at the M1A Loaded model, the MA9826 in particular. Yeah, it's the full length "musket" variant, but that thing just wants to shoot great and if the shooter does his or her part, it's a laser. I cloverleafed a three shot group of 168 grain A-MAX my first trip to the range through open sights. Cloverleafed a second set towards the end. I only had one box, but it was all about the accuracy. I flat guarantee you will not replace the trigger in that one.

If you are looking at a range toy, that's my suggestion, however, DTH is way more my superior when it comes to the different manufacturers in that platform than I am.

If you're looking at a supplemental trunk rifle that hits heavier, we can talk...
 
#5,031
#5,031
I’ve seen a few of y’all mention your CZ pistols, I’m interested in the CZ 2075 Rami. Looking to get into the CZ line and thinking this would be a good carry pistol to start with. Tbh I’m getting bored with the shield and glocks.(it would take a lot to switch from my shield 9mm)

Anyone have any questions xperience with that particular model? I’m digging the 10+1, and same size as my shield little smaller than my G19. Bigger than my wife’s P938.

Thanks for any input.
 
#5,032
#5,032
BEATBAMA12 said:
I’ve seen a few of y’all mention your CZ pistols, I’m interested in the CZ 2075 Rami. Looking to get into the CZ line and thinking this would be a good carry pistol to start with. Tbh I’m getting bored with the shield and glocks.(it would take a lot to switch from my shield 9mm)

Anyone have any questions xperience with that particular model? I’m digging the 10+1, and same size as my shield little smaller than my G19. Bigger than my wife’s P938.

Thanks for any input.
Click to expand...

Cannot go wrong with any CZ pistol at all.
 
#5,033
#5,033
Grand Vol said:
But GW, if you are going to look at an M14 pattern rifle and a Springfield in particular, I'd look at the M1A Loaded model, the MA9826 in particular. Yeah, it's the full length "musket" variant, but that thing just wants to shoot great and if the shooter does his or her part, it's a laser. I cloverleafed a three shot group of 168 grain A-MAX my first trip to the range through open sights. Cloverleafed a second set towards the end. I only had one box, but it was all about the accuracy. I flat guarantee you will not replace the trigger in that one.

If you are looking at a range toy, that's my suggestion, however, DTH is way more my superior when it comes to the different manufacturers in that platform than I am.

If you're looking at a supplemental trunk rifle that hits heavier, we can talk...
Click to expand...

Send it. Probably a year away, but never too soon to start looking. Just give me an estimate on how many liquor stores I gotta rob to afford it
 
#5,034
#5,034
GreyWolf1129 said:
Send it. Probably a year away, but never too soon to start looking. Just give me an estimate on how many liquor stores I gotta rob to afford it
Click to expand...

What do you wan it to do? That's where I need to start.

In the meantime, head on over to Larue Tactical, Knights Armament and LWRC to drool before getting back to me.
 
#5,035
#5,035
GreyWolf1129 said:
I know about the brown tips because of where I work. The Firearms Division has them. Yeah, the 1/9 was the only drawback to the Colt HBAR, but it shoots 62gr and 64gr just fine (well, out to 50 yards), and I've been told if I stay inside of 200 yds, the HBAR will shoot anything in 5.56 just fine. Haven't tested it, but that came from folks who have their ballistic tables in their heads.
Click to expand...

FWIW the TXS bullets are loaded in lighter weights better suited to your twist.

Black Hills 5.56mm 50gr TSX Ammo for Sale | Ventura Munitions

Black Hills Ammo 5.56x45mm NATO 62 Grain Barnes TSX Box - MPN: D556N18
 
#5,036
#5,036
GreyWolf1129 said:
I know about the brown tips because of where I work. The Firearms Division has them. Yeah, the 1/9 was the only drawback to the Colt HBAR, but it shoots 62gr and 64gr just fine (well, out to 50 yards), and I've been told if I stay inside of 200 yds, the HBAR will shoot anything in 5.56 just fine. Haven't tested it, but that came from folks who have their ballistic tables in their heads.
Click to expand...

FWIW the TXS bullets are loaded in lighter weights better suited to your twist.

Black Hills 5.56mm 50gr TSX Ammo for Sale | Ventura Munitions

Black Hills Ammo 5.56x45mm NATO 62 Grain Barnes TSX Box - MPN: D556N18
 
#5,037
#5,037
hndog609 said:
FWIW the TXS bullets are loaded in lighter weights better suited to your twist.

Black Hills 5.56mm 50gr TSX Ammo for Sale | Ventura Munitions

Black Hills Ammo 5.56x45mm NATO 62 Grain Barnes TSX Box - MPN: D556N18
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yeah, after I read GV's post on this, I went "googling" (yet again), and found the TSX in 62gr, which just seems to be the load (weight) that my rifle really likes. I might get a box and shoot it just to see how it does, but at $1.51/round I'm probably going to stick with the Federal XM556SBCT round, which is the 62gr JSP "FBI round". I already have 500 of those, so...


Thanks for the info. Anything you trip over that you think might be of interest or use to me, please pass it along.


Go Vols.
 
#5,038
#5,038
Grand Vol said:
What do you wan it to do? That's where I need to start.

In the meantime, head on over to Larue Tactical, Knights Armament and LWRC to drool before getting back to me.
Click to expand...

Wow. You sent me off into the land of $3500+ rifles without even batting an eye. Nicely done. And here I was cringing at the thought of 2K for a Springfield, before I stuck a scope on it.....


My thinking was, and now I'm re-thinking it, that it would be nice to have a heavy-hitter that would serve me out to roughly 200 yards, although tactically that's a real stretch. I've always just liked the way the SOCOM looks, and we all know about the lure of the eye test, so that's how that all got started.


In hindsight, I have no real need for yet another gun...especially one that would have to hang out in the back of the Tahoe or trunk of the Charger, depending on which vehicle I borrow when I work the road. Down the road, when (if) the wife and I retire to that cabin near the Smokies, I might revisit the topic just to have a bear-tamer handy if the need arises. But in all honesty, GV...right now I can't justify the need or the expense. But thanks for setting me straight on what it's going to cost to own a decent .308 rifle.


So...I guess now I'm back to anything I really need to add or change on my AR. I suppose a good light would be next, so I'm poking around for a deal on the TLR-2, which if memory serves, you recommended. That and maybe a few extra Magpul 30's will likely be the next direction I head off in.


Thanks for the info.
 
#5,039
#5,039
I sent you to those sites for fun and eye candy, not for a purchase lol.

The SOCOM is nice, but I always felt there was something...unbalanced about it. Maybe it was just me, but the overall length on the full size just makes it balance perfectly. Make no mistake though, it's a musket.

If you're really looking at a "heavy hitter" for reasonably close work within 200 and a certified brick buster, I'd say the .458 SOCOM or .450 Bushmaster would suit your needs. Standard AR lower, but put a dedicated upper on it.

Just don't look at ammo prices...
 
#5,040
#5,040
Grand Vol said:
I sent you to those sites for fun and eye candy, not for a purchase lol.

The SOCOM is nice, but I always felt there was something...unbalanced about it. Maybe it was just me, but the overall length on the full size just makes it balance perfectly. Make no mistake though, it's a musket.

If you're really looking at a "heavy hitter" for reasonably close work within 200 and a certified brick buster, I'd say the .458 SOCOM or .450 Bushmaster would suit your needs. Standard AR lower, but put a dedicated upper on it.

Just don't look at ammo prices...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree, the SOCOM looks kind of "chopped off", but that was for a reason (CQB I presume). After looking, I like the Scout Squad model (in black). But that's $1850 + tax and shipping, and then plus a decent fast acquisition variable power (say up to 10X) scope. So $2500 easy.

Too much at this juncture. Better to do what I can to make the AR as effective as possible. And cheaper, I'm sure.

I'll probably start with my Rock, and spend the 3 Franklins to get the night sights installed and the gun tuned up.

I don't know how to post pics on here, but I'll figure it out and post photos of my AR and .45's when I do.

Anyhow, thanks for the info, and the lesson in fiscal realities.
 
#5,041
#5,041
GreyWolf1129 said:
Yeah, I agree, the SOCOM looks kind of "chopped off", but that was for a reason (CQB I presume). After looking, I like the Scout Squad model (in black). But that's $1850 + tax and shipping, and then plus a decent fast acquisition variable power (say up to 10X) scope. So $2500 easy.

Too much at this juncture. Better to do what I can to make the AR as effective as possible. And cheaper, I'm sure.

I'll probably start with my Rock, and spend the 3 Franklins to get the night sights installed and the gun tuned up.

I don't know how to post pics on here, but I'll figure it out and post photos of my AR and .45's when I do.

Anyhow, thanks for the info, and the lesson in fiscal realities.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Mrs GW thanks me as well lol
 
#5,042
#5,042
So I bought a S&W M&P Shield 45 because I got it for a good deal and wanted a ccw. I shot it just as well as the 9, but got it for a better price.

One of my friends has really gotten into shooting and now we go to the range all the time. Shooting my gun is just not practical. I considered getting the M&P 22 compact because it's almost the exact same dimensions as mine. But 22s aren't quite as fun...

I have an old S&W Model 38, but that's also doesn't seem ideal.

Any recommendations? Should I get the full size 9? He's talked about getting into 3-gun, which would be fun, so i'm thinking 9 or .40
 
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#5,043
#5,043
golfballs said:
So I bought a S&W M&P Shield 45 because I got it for a good deal and wanted a ccw. I shot it just as well as the 9, but got it for a better price.

One of my friends has really gotten into shooting and now we go to the range all the time. Shooting my gun is just not practical. I considered getting the M&P 22 compact because it's almost the exact same dimensions as mine. But 22s aren't quite as fun...

I have an old S&W Model 38, but that's also doesn't seem ideal.

Any recommendations? Should I get the full size 9? He's talked about getting into 3-gun, which would be fun, so i'm thinking 9 or .40
Click to expand...

Consider reloading?
 
#5,044
#5,044
Grand Vol said:
I'm sure Mrs GW thanks me as well lol
Click to expand...

Yep.

We make it up to Knoxville / the Smokies at least once a year. If the timing's right, we catch a game. Truth is, the Vols have not been much fun to watch the last couple of years. We all hope that's about to change.

That being said...if us and you and we ever find ourselves in Knoxville or close by at the same time (we need no excuse to head to the mountains, and I have family in Powell)...we would love to catch a game with you, and failing that (or including it) have dinner at Downtown Griil & Brewery, or Numi (great sushi), or you pick it.

May never happen, but if it does, dinner is on us. And yes, Mrs. GW approves. Be the cheapest thing I ever did with your name attached to it...lol.

So..light for a Colt 6721 with original foregrip? Mossie Tactical? Streamlight?
 
#5,045
#5,045
golfballs said:
So I bought a S&W M&P Shield 45 because I got it for a good deal and wanted a ccw. I shot it just as well as the 9, but got it for a better price.

One of my friends has really gotten into shooting and now we go to the range all the time. Shooting my gun is just not practical. I considered getting the M&P 22 compact because it's almost the exact same dimensions as mine. But 22s aren't quite as fun...

I have an old S&W Model 38, but that's also doesn't seem ideal.

Any recommendations? Should I get the full size 9? He's talked about getting into 3-gun, which would be fun, so i'm thinking 9 or .40
Click to expand...

For 3 Gun, 9mm is perfectly fine. That .40 will only beat up the pistol and your hands and have less ammo with a marginal improvement in ballistics for self defense.

Plus, bulk 9mm is cheaper.
 
#5,046
#5,046
Any good sights to buy in bulk? Any brands to stsy away from? I've looked at a few but haven't found any super deals. Worried about buying 800-1000 rounds to save $10 and end up with ammo that is crap.
 
#5,047
#5,047
GreyWolf1129 said:
So..light for a Colt 6721 with original foregrip? Mossie Tactical? Streamlight?
Click to expand...

Magpul MOE hand guard. Carbine length.

M-LOK 1913 rail attachment 5 Slot polymer.

I'll go easy on you and suggest another Streamligiht TLR-1s.

Go for the gold with a Surefire M600 Ultra Scout after you've saved up your pennies. Sell the Streamlight to make up the difference.

I suggest replacing the handguards since eventually you'll want to add more doodads onto it and the M-LOK makes that easy. Plus, if Mrs. GW is lurking, it makes for a dandy Valentines Day and/or Father's Day gift idea.

Eventually, we're gonna talk about muzzle devices...
 
#5,048
#5,048
jhen713 said:
Any good sights to buy in bulk? Any brands to stsy away from? I've looked at a few but haven't found any super deals. Worried about buying 800-1000 rounds to save $10 and end up with ammo that is crap.
Click to expand...

SGAmmo

Ammo2Go

Palmetto State Armory

AIM Surplus

J&G Sales

Wideners

Midway

Are all sites I've used for bulk purchases over the years with reasonable prices and decent shipping.

I steer clear of Cheaper than Dirt since those greedy ****s tend to jack prices as soon as they can whenever there is a shooting in the news. But it's out there.

I'd steer clear of anything reloaded you find at a gun show. Generally:

Federal
Winchester
Prvi Partizan
Sellier and Bellot
Magtech
Any Russian animal brand steel cased
Wolf brass cased
CCI (though some of their brass cased I got once wasn't crimped and I had major bullet setback issues)
PMC
Speer
Tula...can be okay, but loads light from time to time
Independence
Remington
Hornady
Fiocchi
Geco
Armscor
IMI

Are good and trusted brands that shouldn't give you problems. Be wary, again, of any reloads from a non-reputable manufacturer.
 
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