What happened to all the talent?

[SpaceCoastVol]

having talent vs production is different I will agree. But the original post states we have had no talent if I remember correctly. that is just untrue.

No, that was not what I said. What I was asking is for someone to explain whether or not we actually have any. I'll state it again for you. I have been reading for months/years about how well Butch did on the recruiting front, yet I now have read over and over about how we don't have the talent to win in the SEC. I was asking where all that talent that Butch recruited went.

Now that we set a record and cemented this team as the worst in UT history, I have seen it said we have no talent. I guess we hit the perfecta, no talent and no coaching.

 

[HooahVol]

We definitely need a punter.

Yeah. I hope we eventually make it to Australia with a recruiter. Those Australian rules rugby kickers are insane.

 

[jakez4ut]

Absolutely a cruel mistress.

A new defense and offense will be installed for sure with new terminology and new assignments. There will be an evaluation period where guys on the current roster figure out where they fit and if they fit. Some will transfer, some will quit and some will swap positions. There are 20 practice days in the spring. That's before strength and conditioning and before the freshmen get in town.

It's a tall order to win more than half your games with all of the moving pieces that we have. A completely brand new coaching staff has to put a playbook together and work out the practice schedule. The logistics alone are daunting. We've already seen what talent that's not developed can do. Let's start with a couple of SEC wins. How about that?

agreed. be optimistic. be enthusiastic...be realistic too.

we're paying attention to the recruiting right now, and the early signing period is a killer for this staff. they're doing all they can to get guys on campus this weekend (and it's a really good looking group tbh), but not all will commit or sign here. and they have 2 months to get it together with the guys that will sign in Feb.

and we have no idea what current players will wind up leaving the program, and you can bet there will be some attrition.

don't want to say this is a throw away year. but it is a year 1. and a lot has to happen between now and next September.

 

[jakez4ut]

Yeah. I hope we eventually make it to Australia with a recruiter. Those Australian rules rugby kickers are insane.

PWO issued, and accepted by a punter from Last CHance U ....

 

[OrangeUTopia]

Just had a 4 win season. I'll take a 6 win season next year and build off that.

Thanks to Butch the bar has now been lowered to the point that even after 4--5 top 15 recruiting classes in a row 6-6 looks acceptable. It's definitely better than 4-8 but just looking at the UF and UK games we easily could've been 6-6 this year even with the dumpster fire going on.

I think 7 or even 8 wins is possible. But seeing major improvement is key. You could win 6 or 7 games struggling with teams like UMass and getting throttled by GA, Bama, Mizzou, etc....or you could win the same amount by dominating the UMass' and being competitive against UGA and Bama, etc.

This year I think 6 or 7 wins would be acceptable if we see the latter occurring and major improvement.

 

[sechamp2012]

]Kirby Smart [/B]entered a much better situation at UGA than Pruitt did here, and even he only went 7-5 in his first regular season.

Also lets not forget Kirby inherited a great team but still got beat by the worst coaches ever at UT. That is not a resume enhancer.

 

[jakez4ut]

Also lets not forget Kirby inherited a great team but still got beat by the worst coaches ever at UT. That is not a resume enhancer.

by year two, no one remembers year 1. Kirby went 8-5 in year 1, and the playoffs, SEC title year 2.

his resume is just fine.

 

[Volfan2012]

We have been a mash unit the last couple of seasons. Players that we thought were ready to compete were not ready this past season. It will take some effort to put it all together.

 

[lexkyvol]

we will be fine. we will beat ky, vandy, sc, fla, mizzou and win our ooc games!

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Thanks to Butch the bar has now been lowered to the point that even after 4--5 top 15 recruiting classes in a row 6-6 looks acceptable.

Acceptable in your world maybe. Of course whether or not any of us 'accept' it is moot, but I certainly expect better than that.

But that was kind of the point of this thread to begin with. Who is to blame for the season of this team: The lack of player talent (yeah yeah, I know Butch is ultimately responsible for that) or the lack of coaching talent?

 

[Offset Eye]

Jones also recruited and wanted"Nice" guys.. Guys that would do community service and pick up trash on campus.. Very few of them have some "Dog" in them.. Warrior, Jennings(Who knows) both have some dog... which is needed

Nailed it. Listen to the player interviews after the games and then remember how players back in the 90s sounded. Current players sound like they are sorry for making the other teams angry. Old school players sounded like they were ready to pop on the interviewer even after a win.

 

[ptcarter]

The lack of player talent (yeah yeah, I know Butch is ultimately responsible for that) or the lack of coaching talent?

I gotta admit - I drank the orange Koolaid in the offseason last year. My thoughts were that Butch had replaced some mediocre coaches with some better ones and all this so-called talent would shine on the field.

So wrong.

I blame the coaches.

The tackling was just horrible. High school players tackle better. No wrapping up and if so up around the shoulders. How many times did you see 5 defenders standing almost straight up as the pile moved past the first down marker?

Blocking too. QB's getting hammered every series of downs. Limping off the field like they are looking for the bloody pond at Shiloh.

OK, I just drank another big swig of Koolaid. I feel that CJP (if he watches the tape of last year) should understand exactly why these guys are like they are. Right assistants teaching basic fundamentals should do it.

I also think that championship mentality involves hard work and sacrifice. Under Jones, I think a lot of our 4* softened up. They might be in for a rude awakening when practice starts up with Pruitt.

Picture below has been floating around and is more Koolaid. Hope it quenches the thirst!

 

[Sarms58]

Fans always overhype the kids who sign...we also signed some kids who were significantly overhyped by the rating services...how does a kid who sat out his senior season get a 5 star rating? Through promotion and hype and the services eat it up...and so do the fans...myself included...

 

[hexnut]

Fans always overhype the kids who sign...we also signed some kids who were significantly overhyped by the rating services...how does a kid who sat out his senior season get a 5 star rating? Through promotion and hype and the services eat it up...and so do the fans...myself included...

You are so correct.

 

[agent|orange]

No, that was not what I said. What I was asking is for someone to explain whether or not we actually have any. I'll state it again for you. I have been reading for months/years about how well Butch did on the recruiting front, yet I now have read over and over about how we don't have the talent to win in the SEC. I was asking where all that talent that Butch recruited went.

Now that we set a record and cemented this team as the worst in UT history, I have seen it said we have no talent. I guess we hit the perfecta, no talent and no coaching.

I'll give you a quick run-down.

We will have the following "talent" (i.e. a 4 or 5* recruit) in our 2-deep this year:

3 5*
23 4*

In 2018, we'll have the following group based on current enrollment... i.e. not counting the 2018 class as we don't know where it ends up.

1 5*
12 4*

We have, as rising Seniors, the cream of the #4 in the nation 2015 class. The 2016/2017 classes only provided 1 5* and 14 4* players... the 2 missing ones are Alexis Johnson and Kongbo who were CC players.

That's a pretty stark decline from 2018 to 2019 for a new staff... however if they're quality they'll still get results in Year 2, but I wouldn't expect a trip to Atlanta.

We're way behind our SEC-E foes due to Butch's last 2 classes.

 

[81Orange]

Most of our so called talent was undeveloped potential and it is still undeveloped. Our lofty recruiting ranks included many skill players that haven’t developed. We need beef.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I gotta admit - I drank the orange Koolaid in the offseason last year. My thoughts were that Butch had replaced some mediocre coaches with some better ones and all this so-called talent would shine on the field.

So wrong.

I blame the coaches.

The tackling was just horrible. High school players tackle better. No wrapping up and if so up around the shoulders. How many times did you see 5 defenders standing almost straight up as the pile moved past the first down marker?

Blocking too. QB's getting hammered every series of downs. Limping off the field like they are looking for the bloody pond at Shiloh.

OK, I just drank another big swig of Koolaid. I feel that CJP (if he watches the tape of last year) should understand exactly why these guys are like they are. Right assistants teaching basic fundamentals should do it.

I also think that championship mentality involves hard work and sacrifice. Under Jones, I think a lot of our 4* softened up. They might be in for a rude awakening when practice starts up with Pruitt.

Picture below has been floating around and is more Koolaid. Hope it quenches the thirst!

I am not a huge fan of Butch but think it is a real **** play to keep posting that picture of him in the band. I will gladly give $500,000 VN dollars to anyone willing to post a picture of themselves at that age.

Not aimed specifically at you sir, just a comment in general. A 15 year old with zits in a band uniform could very well grow up to be the next Chuck Norris as well.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Fans always overhype the kids who sign...we also signed some kids who were significantly overhyped by the rating services...how does a kid who sat out his senior season get a 5 star rating? Through promotion and hype and the services eat it up...and so do the fans...myself included...

No, the rating services overhype them. Fans just go by what they have been told by the so-called experts. (rating services)

Moody's and Standard and Poors do the exact same thing to investors. Should be illegal imho.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Most of our so called talent was undeveloped potential and it is still undeveloped. Our lofty recruiting ranks included many skill players that haven’t developed. We need beef.

Why do you say "so called" talent? Are they or are they not talented football players?

 

[AM64]

Butch had a unique method when shopping for players. He did get some great bargains at the sale rack - 4* and 5* for the price of a 3*. However, his shopping bag held lots of mismatched parts - formal shirt, jorts, great arctic parka, expensive fashion flip flops, hockey puck, left handed golf club (couldn't find a left handed baseball bat) ...

 

[volfan102455]

Nailed it. Listen to the player interviews after the games and then remember how players back in the 90s sounded. Current players sound like they are sorry for making the other teams angry. Old school players sounded like they were ready to pop on the interviewer even after a win.

So we need to be recruiting thugs and players that are going to get into trouble all the time???

No. Just no.

 

[Bauce]

I am not a huge fan of Butch but think it is a real **** play to keep posting that picture of him in the band. I will gladly give $500,000 VN dollars to anyone willing to post a picture of themselves at that age.

Not aimed specifically at you sir, just a comment in general. A 15 year old with zits in a band uniform could very well grow up to be the next Chuck Norris as well.

Why you in your feelings?

 

[Brave Volunteer]

People tend to forget all the attrition we had this year. I do think there's enough talent on this team to win 8 or 9 games if healthy. However we're going to be in for a rough transition year next season with an all new coaching staff. Plus If Coach Pruitt does implement the 3-4 defense, the first year of that is always rough. Add to that an absolutely brutal schedule and you quickly see how 6-6 would be pretty darn impressive.

 

[sanefan]

No predictions here, just a reminder that development in the first year of a coaching change does not always reflect in the record year 1, regardless of what's in the cupboard.

Georgia's record last year was worse than the year before. Alabama had the same record Saban's first year. I am sure there are plenty of other examples.

The first year, watch the players, not the scoreboard. If you see changes in attitude, speed, physical fitness AND physical play, then get excited about 2019.

 

[Vols_Baby_Boomer]

Butch Jones recruited some of the best talent to UT. One of our best coaches ever. The man could recruit!