Daniel Helm

#177
#177
Problem is Butch could hurl the criticize but had no idea how to fix other than repeat his unfallable system. Saban can criticize you and then help you fix it.
 
#178
#178
volfannbama said:
Heck ueah, cowards. If there are severe issues why hid behind "media i need access?" Screw that, be a man and speak up in due time, not after a guy is fired and cant say anything in his defense.
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How immature are some of you? That doesn't make them cowards.

If Helm's family had exposed this, Butch would have liked about discipline or something else and made Helm look like a troublemaker, which means he might never play D1 bball again.


There's a time to be quiet and patient, and a time to talk. The Helm family made the right choices.
 
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#180
#180
JonGrudensAgent said:
This story has been discussed for close to 2 weeks now, not after the Jones firing today as is being portrayed as "sour grapes" and "cowardly" in this thread.

Acting like this is brand new and none of this negative stuff was being said about Jones prior to this afternoon is just false.
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So, Daniel's dad confirming is just a non story?
 
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#181
#181
TennTom said:
Can't believe some of you are slinging mud at each other on such a glorious Sunday. I just opened a fresh bottle of Maker's 46 to celebrate. Cheers fellow Vols!
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Pit cooked some baby backs, knocked down some JD shots followed with a nice lager with the meal. :pepper:
 
#183
#183
JonGrudensAgent said:
Crowder

Kendrick

Bowles

Helms

Hurd

Davis

6 different instances of Jones being reported as displaying questionable moral character that have all been out there for awhile.

Took a pot shot at Mays last week after the decommitment through the press.

Chose to bail on his seniors the last two games when he had the option to "own" his mistakes.

Jones won't get an outpouring of empathy from me.
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Crowder is a pedophile. Gets no sympathy from me.
 
#184
#184
The only sure thing is that Butch is a member of the “Millionaire for Life” club and we’re still searching for a coach that can compete in the SEC.
 
#186
#186
JonGrudensAgent said:
Crowder

Kendrick

Bowles

Helms

Hurd

Davis

6 different instances of Jones being reported as displaying questionable moral character that have all been out there for awhile.

Took a pot shot at Mays last week after the decommitment through the press.

Chose to bail on his seniors the last two games when he had the option to "own" his mistakes.

Jones won't get an outpouring of empathy from me.
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What was the helms situation?
 
#187
#187
Since we have a new coach who (why would he?) retain much if any of the staff, the slate is wiped clean. Whatever happened with CBJ and players will be filed away in the drawer labeled "Tabloid", for those who want to pick scabs forever.

Amazing to me that some of the JFK CIA files were about to be released and held back? What's in there? What does it buy you to know? Last time I check JFK was still dead.
 
#188
#188
volman128 said:
The big thing with Helm is that he grew up in a strict religious household that didn't use profanity. Helm was an excellent student (hello ... he's at Duke now) and very professional and well-spoken young man. Butch knew this and that's why he did it. And if you think there weren't dozens of players and assistants who were treated like absolute crap throughout Butch's time here, you're wrong.

And if anyone actually thinks that Swain, a former player, VFL and member of the media, doesn't know pretty much every single inside facet of what went on with Butch, you are delusional AF.

Like I said, Butch isn't a good person. That notion that he's some great guy should've been dead after the Drae Bowles saga.
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Ive said it before and I'll say it again you do not know who is on this board. Just because some aren't going around trying to get street cred, gather a following etc doesn't mean that there aren't people here who know for a fact that there are "some" former players with an axe to grind. The power T isn't something to be used as a way to spread your own narrative based on your own agenda. I hope that the next coach doesn't take anything from anybody and keeps anyone who media driven away from the team.
 
#190
#190
KBVol said:
Cowards for getting the truth out about this guy? The team’s play on the field the last 2 years, all the players leaving, other rumors, etc.....all these things have told us there’s something up in the facility with Jones.

Swain has told his audience for a very long time that there were issues, that when the trigger was pulled on Jones, that he would share a lot of the things that he’s known for a long time. Not sure how that squares with being a coward.
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It's sad that these stories were out there and 99.9% of all of you took great pride and pleasure in defending CBJ and trashing HURD....

AND you all KNOW who you are!
 
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#192
#192
Roustabout said:
So, Daniel's dad confirming is just a non story?
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Part of a story that's been talked about since the first of the month.

Some of the folk on here still acting like Jones has zero culpability in any of this including the on the field results are either trolls or bordering on the ridiculous at this point.

Acting like none of this has ever been brought up before and it's just the mean old media and fans piling on the poor guy is asinine.
 
#194
#194
Nashvol2 said:
I'm listening at the moment. I feel like if he had won big, hardly anyone would say anything negative about him. Butch is a Saban control freak without the Saban success.
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Big difference. Saban is smart, knows how to build & maintain a roster and is well-known for having "the best staff in America" year in and year out. And guess what? He doesn't try and sell his staff as the best in America because he knows it already is, year in and year out. He also micro-manages certain things because he knows what works. And he's a great developer of talent.

Butch Jones on the other hand. Not smart, as evidenced by his many disastrous in-game decisions and buffoon-brained timeouts. Rode the coattail of his predecessor to get the CMU, UC & UT gigs, got VERY LUCKY with the '14 & '15 class, uses gimmicks to promote himself and couldn't recruit at an elite level without lots of playing time to offer. Then there was a TON of recruiting momentum early from talented legacy recruits and a new rise of talent in Tennessee who wanted to play for their home school, which later backfired when they discovered how big of an arse Butch was (Wharton transferring was the 1st red flag).

He walked into a really good situation recruiting-wise, yet he'll tell you he "built it" (brick by brick). No sir, most of those recruits fell in your lap and you got lucky with the addition of guys like JRM, Dobbs & Sutton. Beyond that he has shown little ability to develop talent, his "eye" for talent on the lower rated guys & projects was proven to be mediocre at best - hence all the IMMEDIATE washouts & transfers.

I think Butch tries to be like Saban and they've got a few quirks that are similar (short fuse, micro-manages, over-signs in recruiting etc) but that's as far as it extends. Those same traits could apply to his predecessor too, so it's not like they aren't common in the CFB world - Muschamp does the same thing to an extent.
 
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#195
#195
volfannbama said:
No sympathy from me either, just no need to trash him.
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You're just gonna have to give up. There is a certain % of people who are gonna speak badly about anyone whether it is deserved or not.

Butch seems like a good person but there have been some questionable transfers and situations. Who knows what really has happened - a couple of these kids like Wharton & Bowles seemed like really good kids while a couple seemed very spoiled (Hurd) or bad character kids (Crowder). What I am almost positive of is that the media would love nothing more than to expose something negative as soon as it happens. Why didn't we see all the "scumbag" reports along the way? I don't know. I'm just glad it's over.
 
#196
#196
JonGrudensAgent said:
Part of a story that's been talked about since the first of the month.

Some of the folk on here still acting like Jones has zero culpability in any of this including the on the field results are either trolls or bordering on the ridiculous at this point.

Acting like none of this has ever been brought up before and it's just the mean old media and fans piling on the poor guy is asinine.
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You sound like you think I'm defending Jones or discrediting the story.
 
#197
#197
MikeVol44 said:
It's sad that these stories were out there and 99.9% of all of you took great pride and pleasure in defending CBJ and trashing HURD....

AND you all KNOW who you are!
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It doesn't change the fact that Hurd quit on his teammates..... he's a primadonna quitter.... there I said it
 
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#199
#199
Roustabout said:
So, Daniel's dad confirming is just a non story?
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Roustabout said:
You sound like you think I'm defending Jones or discrediting the story.
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Not really.

Most of that last post was directed towards other posters.

None of these coaches are saints.

If you're in the SEC and recruiting your hands are gonna get a little dirty. No one can coach 100 plus players and manage support staff without some personality conflicts.

Plenty on here have treated whichever coach is wearing the head set like they can do no wrong however. Been happening since Majors that I know of.

And now that the axe has fallen for Jones some seem to still think it's everyone's fault but his that he got fired or that talking about his shortcomings as a coach or his obvious personality issues is just piling on.
 
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