Official Jon Gruden Thread XIX

[Orlando Vol]

Where did you graduate from?

Tennessee

 

[Kid Deezy]

I just had a discussion with someone in the office, who's adult children have ties to the UT Athletic Department. She had dinner with them last night. One of her son's who's good friend works in the AD said....Get ready, "you're not going to like it", Jones will be fired on Monday. This talk about Gruden meeting with Currie is true, However, he's helping with the "new hire process" along with Peyton - not discussing Gruden coming to UT. They are trying to get Stoops - Gruden, and Peyton are just assisting in the process.

I don't doubt you were told that but... smokescreen...

 

[baburntt]

From TOS:

JAV: I'm trying to stay out of Chucky news. Less that is said about it will be better. He's not in he's not out.

I am not on that site but a coworker is and just sent that to me.

 

[preacherwebb]

So, my theory is that after the Alabama game last year, things started moving in this direction. Everyone with any critical thinking skills knew that we were going to need a new coach, and that an up and comer wasn't going to cut it. Cue Currie in February. Peyton does the leg work to patch things up between Currie and Fulmer. Cue Fulmer in June. I believe that this has been going on for months. I think that Gruden (or his agent) could see the writing on ESPN's wall, and they knew an exit strategy was needed. The pieces I heard that solidified this part for me was the part about the Gruden family's house search starting before the Florida game. Also, the fact that any immediate member of the family is even alluding to the possibility in public tells me that his part of the deal is done. These folks aren't new to the world of being in the public eye. Their son wouldn't be talking if he wasn't supposed to. He grew up with a very famous dad, he knows how to do things, and he doesn't need the attention. That brings me to the most fascinating piece of this whole thing which is the fact that the son is an AGR. He could have picked any fraternity, and he picks AGR. This tells me SO MUCH about that family. I think this tidbit is way undervalued I digress...

I think that Orlando Vol brought the goods last night. He confirmed that puzzle piece for me. I also think that Currie or his office intentionally sent trolls to muddy the waters. Trolls with many different stories, many of which hold a nugget of truth. Some may not even know they are trolling us (or trying to).

This theory is about human nature, and the way big business is done. It is not about Butch Jones losing football games he shouldn't. He has wanted out since last year. His family has wanted out. I think Currie wanted to wait until the end of the season. Maybe he will and maybe he won't. I've thought that Fulmer as interim was absurd. However, if it is Fulmer there is absolutely no way that the ink isn't dry on Gruden.

Again, only a theory based on obsessiveness.

Seen. I think your conclusion is supported by solid evidence. I buy this.



I think you are 100% dead on here.

Your overall theory is excellent. Let me add a couple of data points that I think are positive.

1. Vegas line move. +2000 down to +1200 is a huge shift, and you can't attribute it to a bunch of Twitter and internet posters scrambling to drop $500 on a bet.

2. Gruden hasn't said anything. If he's not been approached, there's simply no way he lets the speculation get to where it is without some sort of statement.

Personally, I think the timing of the small comments we got yesterday indicating negotiations were ongoing, followed by the explosion of every possible Grumor you could imagine, supports a conclusion that the AD had reached a specific milestone in talks, and started an orchestrated misinformation campaign.

The whole thing is fascinating to watch. Keep your eyes open, SFD! 😁👍

I'm working harder at trying to keep up with you guys, as well as pay attention to everyone's posts. Well, everyone except those that made the list and some of night shift - sorry, i don't have time every morning to read about their favorite cereal. Reading (practically) every post, waiting with baited breath, trying to refrain or at least limit my posting, all in.

 

[LakeMaryFLVol]

I just had a discussion with someone in the office, who's adult children have ties to the UT Athletic Department. She had dinner with them last night. One of her son's who's good friend works in the AD said....Get ready, "you're not going to like it", Jones will be fired on Monday. This talk about Gruden meeting with Currie is true, However, he's helping with the "new hire process" along with Peyton - not discussing Gruden coming to UT. They are trying to get Stoops - Gruden, and Peyton are just assisting in the process.

Disagree Sara. Bob has one of his houses in Crescent Beach FL...near ol ball coach and next to a 15 year plus friend of mine. He is not coming back. He is 57. His Dad was 55 when he passed away from a heart attack while coaching a football game. He is very much enjoying not coaching right now and he is done

 

[FacelessArya]

Interesting. Did the quoted post which had now vanished ever say who it was?

This could be a very valuable clue. I did think it was odd he chose to sit in the stands. He wasn't there with his family. I mean, he was, but he wasn't. He was very visible. I guess I was so excited to see him in the stands I didn't stop to think why.

Twitter

I've never heard who. But that's not his son.

 

[rgvol]

Ok. This is going to be a little long, but please everyone read. Also let me say that I am all aboard the Gruden train and have been for years. Hoping this is finally the time it happens.

Now, I don't want to dampen anyone's excitement here, but legally there are some things that need to be cleared up in this thread. Mostly this is just timeline stuff. I have seen several places rumors that there are agreements in place with Butch and Gruden, and everything is just waiting to be announced, etc. This is absolutely, incontrovertibly false. There is zero chance the general counsel's office would agree to these "agreements" at this point in time. Why? There is one major roadblock in place, Butch is still employed by the university and has a contract.

Butch:
Now, I have also seen places where "Butch and the university have agreed to something" but no coach is agreeing to be fired/resign and then continuing to coach, it just doesn't happen. Certainly it doesn't happen without news leaking. The GC's office may have something typed up and ready to go for if/when Currie pulls the trigger, but believe me when I say the nothing has been finalized. I am sure the GCs office has reviewed Butch's contract and has been advising Currie at this point on what would happen if/when he decides to fire Butch. But there is no contract in place between Butch and TN, yet, that formally ends the relationship. Sorry.

Gruden:
For Gruden the issue becomes even clearer, then, based on the roadblock. There is absolutely no way he has any sort of agreement to coach TN yet. ZERO. In fact, there is ZERO chance that any sort of agreement has even been initially drafted, etc. As long as Butch has a contract in place, any agreement or formulation of an agreement with Gruden would constitute tortious interference. Butch would love for this to happen. Why? Not only would he sue Gruden/TN and receive the entire value of the contract that was interfered with, he would also be entitled to punitive damages. Even worse is that Butch would have a claim for a negative injunction against Gruden and the school that would legally block Gruden from taking the TN job. All because they would have frustrated Butch's ability to complete his own contractual relationship with the university.


So where does this logically leave us?
The timeline has to go in order. First, Butch has to be fired. This would end the interference claim and allow Currie and the GCs office to engage in actual negotiations with Gruden and his team. Second, becomes the negotiations. Third, is the offer. And fourth is waiting for an acceptance or denial. Its really that simple.

Now, the positive news. TN is not sitting on its hands doing nothing. I would be shocked if people like the Haslem's, and Peyton, and Phil are not in touch with Gruden's people gauging interest. It would be criminal not to know where he stands before embarking on this attempt. I would guess we also know there is mutual interest there. Back channels are probably feeling each other out. Gruden may be even contacting people to see who might form a staff with him, if he is offered the job. That is all prudent for the decision making. Perhaps Gruden would only come if he has the right team in place, I don't know. But he would be dumb, knowing the rumors are out there, to not at least be investigating whether he'd take the job at this point too. So sit back and wait. Nothing is in place. I would hope and assume that Butch will be fired after we get drilled by Bama this weekend (sorry, its definitely happening). If he is not, then it is time to direct the anger towards Currie and force his hand.

The time has come. We need to fire Butch. Its over. While we may not get Gruden, my hope is that the school at least throws the blank check his way and makes him say no. But if they truly care about TN, then they have t make him say no. If he turns us down, fine. Then go to the next best coach. Enough with the bargain bin diving.

Go vols! Go Gruden!

This 100%

 

[YankeeVol]

Here's a little information that was shared with me by a good friend who's a UT grad that has a business connection with another UT grad, and that UT grad is one of the larger boosters. The larger booster told him and he's passing to me.....so here it goes.

Currie, Peyton, Phil, and the powers that be are trying to land Gruden with the notion that Gruden bring Jim Bob Cooter on as the OC. The reason being is at some point, Gruden will want to retire and they want a clear succession plan in place for when that happens. Currie does not want to see the AD going through a coaching search in the future for some hire that has no ties to the program. The powers that be are trying to create a long term plan so that UT isn't in the situation of revolving coaches the way it's been the last 3 coaches. I have no information on salaries, dates, or any details whatsoever.

Again, this was told to me and I'm passing along to you guys. I do not claim it to be fact and I'm certainly not a troll. Nothing really earth moving but I do admit the vision of a long term plan sounds very good to me. Don't shoot the messenger.

The question is why would JBC make a lateral position move from the NFL to college. Gruden isn't old; it would be a potential 10 year coach-in-waiting plan.

I would be cool with JBC as head coach now if Gruden falls through.

Exactly. Gruden is only 54. I don't see JBC making that move, and especially not as HC in waiting.

 

[Lovesomebigorange]

The misinformation campaign does make some sense as Butch is still the head coach, even if he has privately agreed to a resignation as has been said many times. UT doesn't want to come off looking cruel to Butch who did work hard and has done some good things (minus his horrible coaching, personnel mismanagement, nightmare pressers etc). And IF Gruden really is a possibility he wouldn't want it out there either as he and Butch appear to have a respectful relationship for a few years now. I know nothing just my thoughts.

 

[Kid Deezy]

Exactly. Gruden is only 54. I don't see JBC making that move, and especially not as HC in waiting.

Yea but I also don't see JG coaching here for 10+ years. If JBC knew he would be head coach in 5 it might change things

 

[Fingers]

It seems the info about Jones coaching for Kentucky conflicts with a lot of the rumors about the Bama game being it for Btuch.

 

[CountVolcula]

Okay gif masters and computer experts, i googled this and still didn't understand. So maybe the reason some gifs don't work is i'm trying to use gifs that are too big. On the "go advanced - manage attachments" window, it states the limit for a gif at 47.68 MB - 800X600.

So, my questions are:
1) this one confuses me, which is bigger, KB or MB. Don't say one is this many so this one is this many of those. I don't get it on google when i read it there either. Try to make a child (me) understand it.
2) does the 800X600 matter, even if it's less than the 47.68 MB?

Thanks for your kindhearted assistance.
P

1000 kb in a mb

byte
Kilobyte
Megabyte
Terabyte
Petabyte

 

[EZE]

Verbal agreements are still agreements. And while I am sure Currie would love to be able to do this, the GCs office is full of attorneys who are legally bound not to do anything illegal. Its their job to prevent Currie from putting himself in that position. So no. Even if Currie went to the GCs office and asked them to do it, they would all, to a man/woman turn that request down.

It’s been a while, but I think employment contracts fall under the Statute of Frauds and have to be in writing to be enforceable. Maybe a Tennessee contract attorney can help.

 

[preacherwebb]

I just had a discussion with someone in the office, who's adult children have ties to the UT Athletic Department. She had dinner with them last night. One of her son's who's good friend works in the AD said....Get ready, "you're not going to like it", Jones will be fired on Monday. This talk about Gruden meeting with Currie is true, However, he's helping with the "new hire process" along with Peyton - not discussing Gruden coming to UT. They are trying to get Stoops - Gruden, and Peyton are just assisting in the process.

not my first choice, but i'd take it.
not saying i'm buying it all either ... not you personally, i just can't imagine stoops un-retiring.

but i vould get on board after the nongruden disappointment subsided.

 

[LakeMaryFLVol]

This 100%

I am right with you re this post.
Love Captiva Rg. Mucky Duck a great spot for a sunset. How did the island do during Irma?

 

[Sara Clark]

Disagree Sara. Bob has one of his houses in Crescent Beach FL...near ol ball coach and next to a 15 year plus friend of mine. He is not coming back. He is 57. His Dad was 55 when he passed away from a heart attack while coaching a football game. He is very much enjoying not coaching right now and he is done

Just passing along the discussion. I'm one who believes there is a small element of truth to many rumors, maybe not this one, who knows, just thought I'd share.

 

[dbarker]

I'm fairly positive this has happened twice at Wisconsin with Barry Alvarez, he stepped in twice, I think once after Bielema left and the second time when another coach left, I'm not sure on that second one, but it has happened before at a different school

Good to know. Didn't know that happened!

 

[SubjectiveReality]

Bingo. That's why it has fascinated me.

Makes a lot of sense. I went to Carson-Newman undergrad, so again, never had much knowledge nor care to know about frats/sororities. But don't hold that against me! I was in Neyland every Saturday I could be.

Also, I've honestly been on board with the whole Fulmer interim thing as well. My thought process, and take it as for what it is (my opinion), is that it would be the perfect scenario. I dismiss the negative attitude of some who would be fearful that old fans would push to retain him. I honestly don't believe he would want to shorten his lifespan (he's 3 years shy of 70 as it is) by being HBC for a protracted amount of time. And he's the kind of guy who I absolutely believe would put the school before himself in a situation like that.

Furthermore, if a huge (cough Gruden) hire was in the works, you don't want to turn over interim to one of the assistants who could possibly Ed Orgeron us by salvaging the season and leave us in the position of having to hire them if outside hires fell through.

 

[YankeeVol]

Yea but I also don't see JG coaching here for 10+ years. If JBC knew he would be head coach in 5 it might change things

I think Gruden would be in the 7-8 year range realistically.

JBC will be an NFL HC within 5 years. It just doesn't make sense to me.

*I'd be good with it, I just don't see it.

 

[Volfan76]

Ok. This is going to be a little long, but please everyone read. Also let me say that I am all aboard the Gruden train and have been for years. Hoping this is finally the time it happens.

Now, I don't want to dampen anyone's excitement here, but legally there are some things that need to be cleared up in this thread. Mostly this is just timeline stuff. I have seen several places rumors that there are agreements in place with Butch and Gruden, and everything is just waiting to be announced, etc. This is absolutely, incontrovertibly false. There is zero chance the general counsel's office would agree to these "agreements" at this point in time. Why? There is one major roadblock in place, Butch is still employed by the university and has a contract.

Butch:
Now, I have also seen places where "Butch and the university have agreed to something" but no coach is agreeing to be fired/resign and then continuing to coach, it just doesn't happen. Certainly it doesn't happen without news leaking. The GC's office may have something typed up and ready to go for if/when Currie pulls the trigger, but believe me when I say the nothing has been finalized. I am sure the GCs office has reviewed Butch's contract and has been advising Currie at this point on what would happen if/when he decides to fire Butch. But there is no contract in place between Butch and TN, yet, that formally ends the relationship. Sorry.

Gruden:
For Gruden the issue becomes even clearer, then, based on the roadblock. There is absolutely no way he has any sort of agreement to coach TN yet. ZERO. In fact, there is ZERO chance that any sort of agreement has even been initially drafted, etc. As long as Butch has a contract in place, any agreement or formulation of an agreement with Gruden would constitute tortious interference. Butch would love for this to happen. Why? Not only would he sue Gruden/TN and receive the entire value of the contract that was interfered with, he would also be entitled to punitive damages. Even worse is that Butch would have a claim for a negative injunction against Gruden and the school that would legally block Gruden from taking the TN job. All because they would have frustrated Butch's ability to complete his own contractual relationship with the university.


So where does this logically leave us?
The timeline has to go in order. First, Butch has to be fired. This would end the interference claim and allow Currie and the GCs office to engage in actual negotiations with Gruden and his team. Second, becomes the negotiations. Third, is the offer. And fourth is waiting for an acceptance or denial. Its really that simple.

Now, the positive news. TN is not sitting on its hands doing nothing. I would be shocked if people like the Haslem's, and Peyton, and Phil are not in touch with Gruden's people gauging interest. It would be criminal not to know where he stands before embarking on this attempt. I would guess we also know there is mutual interest there. Back channels are probably feeling each other out. Gruden may be even contacting people to see who might form a staff with him, if he is offered the job. That is all prudent for the decision making. Perhaps Gruden would only come if he has the right team in place, I don't know. But he would be dumb, knowing the rumors are out there, to not at least be investigating whether he'd take the job at this point too. So sit back and wait. Nothing is in place. I would hope and assume that Butch will be fired after we get drilled by Bama this weekend (sorry, its definitely happening). If he is not, then it is time to direct the anger towards Currie and force his hand.

The time has come. We need to fire Butch. Its over. While we may not get Gruden, my hope is that the school at least throws the blank check his way and makes him say no. But if they truly care about TN, then they have t make him say no. If he turns us down, fine. Then go to the next best coach. Enough with the bargain bin diving.

Go vols! Go Gruden!

I'm no lawyer and I have absolutely no inside information, but if what DOT reported was true and a buyout agreement was in place, couldn't there be a clause in that agreement to allow the university to form agreements with potential replacement coaches?

 

[Fingers]

From TOS:

JAV: I'm trying to stay out of Chucky news. Less that is said about it will be better. He's not in he's not out.

I am not on that site but a coworker is and just sent that to me.

Hmmmm.

 

[rgvol]

Didn’t Fulmer agree to coach out after being fired?

Yes but Butch hasn't been fired. YET!!!

 

[EZE]

This is also what I believe.
I think we will know we have a new coach, whoever that may be, whenever Lyle Allen's termination/resignation is made public.

Actually, the more I think about it, I doubt that even Butch has signed anything. I think that would have leaked out by now if he had.

 

[UTVolinExile]

MKEvol, good post on tortious interference, not quoting due to length, but that is definitely an issue here. I think it also explains some of what we are seeing.

TI requires:
1. A legal contract in effect,
2. Knowledge of the contract by the defendant,
3. Defendant INTENDS to induce a breach of the contract,
4. Defendant acts "maliciously" to induce a breach,
5. Contract is ACTUALLY breached,
6. Defendant's malicious, intentional act is the proximate cause of the breach, and
7. Plaintiff is damaged by the breach.

A lot of legal concepts there, but it explains a couple things:
1. Butch's status has to be resolved. Gruden is clear of TI if Butch's contract is terminated by negotiation between Butch and UT.
2. Gruden has been super quiet. Normally he loves talking about UT, see the bowl against Northwestern for example. When he comes to UT for the SC game, he wears no orange and isn't on the sidelines. He is a father meeting with his son. Taking no visible action that could be construed as inducing UT to breach.
3. All the noise about missing on Gruden fuether helps protect Gruden from a claim of TI.

Things to ponder. Props to MKEvol for bringing it up.

 

[preacherwebb]

Nobody get fired and leaves on their own terms. They may allow him to try to save face. But never does anyone leave on their own terms when they are fired. Stoops at OK left on his own terms.

true, but if there is indeed a negotiated buyout, that aint necessarily fired either