Where there's smoke there's fire?

#201
#201
CAVPUT said:
Like a UT version of ground hogs day. I've seen my fair share of coaching changes since '65, but if I'm being honest, I'm not sure I have the taste for yet another one.

Bound to happen, but I'm not looking forward to another 5-7 year rebuild.
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I don't think who ever would come in would have to do a rebuild. Like Penn St they had O'Brien come in and clean up the mess, pretty much what Butch has done, then hired a proven coach to take them back to the top. Butch has topped out. He has brought in great talent, but continues to hold them back with coaching errors. UT doesn't need to get to Venables type. Currie should be contacting Chip Kelly now to gauge his interest. JG could run his system we have speed everywhere. In my opinion it will be a race to get him.
 
#204
#204
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
That's a matter of perspective. I'd say breaking an 11 game losing streak to our most hated rival is worth a damn. I would also call a 2 game winning streak against UGA worth a damn.

The biggest indictment of Jones isn't that he can't win a big game, but that he can't capitalize on the opportunity when he does. We beat the two teams we had to beat last year to win the East, then turned around and wet the bed against a couple of bottom feeders.
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FWIW I always appreciate people calling SC a bottom feeder.

The goal of this program right now is to get to the SECCG on a consistent basis and eventually win one. I agree with you beating GA and FL is worth a damn, but it means nothing when you don't get to Atlanta as a result.

Look at it from outside the perspective of a TN fan. What do others look at this program and think? That's usually a better measuring stick that what we think is valuable. We will always be biased, but I can tell you every other school agrees we have done nothing worth a damn in 8-9 years.
 
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#207
#207
There are a few people with connections but I can assure you that UT will not make a move until the season is over, barring some kind of a 4-8 or 3-9 meltdown. I do know for a fact that at least one very influential booster does not want to pay another high priced buyout on an ineffective coach. We will see who wins out in the end I guess.
 
#208
#208
landscapingvol said:
There are a few people with connections but I can assure you that UT will not make a move until the season is over, barring some kind of a 4-8 or 3-9 meltdown. I do know for a fact that at least one very influential booster does not want to pay another high priced buyout on an ineffective coach. We will see who wins out in the end I guess.
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I posted this elsewhere, but it is relevant here:

Butch's buyout = 7.5 million
New Coach first year = Around 4-5 million or more
New Coach's buyout = Around 0-1 million or more

So, a coaching change is around a 12-15 million outlay. That isn't chump change.
 
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#209
#209
The only saving grace this time around for those who want a new coach, and I am not saying I disagree, is there is a new AD in place who may convince enough people for a fresh start if he chose that route
 
#210
#210
EZE said:
I would not be surprised by a Vol victory at all.

But, all it does is appease the administration enough to ensure that Butch finishes the season (or at least most of it).

His long term future will be decided after the bye--if he beats Georgia and makes it that far. The only thing that could make the fan base even lukewarm toward him is a 9-3 finish, and he needs 10-2 to really make people believe. I do not think he is anywhere near capable of pulling that off.
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It's not about the fans as long as they buy the tickets friend. The power brokers at UT have shown with the last three hires how much they really care about our alma mater. Sadly, this coach can finish 3-5 in the SEC this year and probably keep his job.
 
#211
#211
landscapingvol said:
There are a few people with connections but I can assure you that UT will not make a move until the season is over, barring some kind of a 4-8 or 3-9 meltdown. I do know for a fact that at least one very influential booster does not want to pay another high priced buyout on an ineffective coach. We will see who wins out in the end I guess.
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Boosters fault for multiple bad hires. Let them know that
 
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#212
#212
EZE said:
I posted this elsewhere, but it is relevant here:

Butch's buyout = 7.5 million
New Coach first year = Around 4-5 million or more
New Coach's buyout = Around 0-1 million or more

So, a coaching change is around a 12-15 million outlay. That isn't chump change.
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How much does Harbaugh make at Michigan? Saban at Bama? Add on top of that the coordinators, assistant coaches', and sports admins' salaries at those places and you're probably talking that much at those places. I don't believe Jones' buyout has to be paid upfront either and the payouts stop if he lands another job. Finances are not the issue this time as when Kiffin left and Dooley was canned.
 
#213
#213
Mutual decision to part ways. Butch will not get an extension or raise this year. When it didn't happen then he hired Jimmy Sexton. Sexton job is to work behind the scene s and get Butch another job next year. Butch is leaving this year. He cannot handle the pressure
 
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#214
#214
EZE said:
I posted this elsewhere, but it is relevant here:

Butch's buyout = 7.5 million
New Coach first year = Around 4-5 million or more
New Coach's buyout = Around 0-1 million or more

So, a coaching change is around a 12-15 million outlay. That isn't chump change.
Click to expand...

Butch makes 4 million right now. You can throw your salary out the window and it's more like 8 to 9,000,000 to make a coaching change at the head coach position. Then of course you have all the coordinators. But there are offsets written contracts for the new job so we'll see what happens
 
#215
#215
BJWeeks said:
Mutual decision to part ways. Butch will not get an extension or raise this year. When it didn't happen then he hired Jimmy Sexton. Sexton job is to work behind the scene s and get Butch another job next year. Butch is leaving this year. He cannot handle the pressure
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Sounds like his MO, and I'm serious when I say that. Not sure how that scenario plays out. It you are right, and somehow it gets out that he's looking elsewhere, he should be terminated quickly before recruits get the scoop and "fly the coop". Remember that we have a December signing period this year for the first time.
 
#216
#216
jordan4vols said:
Butch makes 4 million right now. You can throw your salary out the window and it's more like 8 to 9,000,000 to make a coaching change at the head coach position. Then of course you have all the coordinators. But there are offsets written contracts for the new job so we'll see what happens
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Okay, so 4 million will get another Butch. I thought we might pay a bit more and aim higher.
 
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#217
#217
EZE said:
I posted this elsewhere, but it is relevant here:

Butch's buyout = 7.5 million
New Coach first year = Around 4-5 million or more
New Coach's buyout = Around 0-1 million or more

So, a coaching change is around a 12-15 million outlay. That isn't chump change.
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They hired Fulmer to raise that. lol
 
#218
#218
VolRoger said:
How much does Harbaugh make at Michigan? Saban at Bama? Add on top of that the coordinators, assistant coaches', and sports admins' salaries at those places and you're probably talking that much at those places. I don't believe Jones' buyout has to be paid upfront either and the payouts stop if he lands another job. Finances are not the issue this time as when Kiffin left and Dooley was canned.
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I don't disagree with you, but the money has to come from somewhere, even if eventually.
 
#219
#219
BJWeeks said:
Mutual decision to part ways. Butch will not get an extension or raise this year. When it didn't happen then he hired Jimmy Sexton. Sexton job is to work behind the scene s and get Butch another job next year. Butch is leaving this year. He cannot handle the pressure
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I could see that just because Butch is so thin skinned.
 
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#220
#220
EZE said:
Maybe with the fan base, but not the administration. Why? Because, the fact that Butch is still employed today means that Florida was not the litmus test.

My point is that the earliest you would see a change, if at all, would be during the bye week after the Georgia game.
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Got it, and I agree with your administration comment above. Not sure they would make a change that week either, sad to say.
 
#221
#221
PennVol said:
Fire him now. What must be done eventually, should be done immediately. There is no part of the program worth keeping with him. Some of this staff is worth keeping, ditch Butch And let the search begin.
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Oh believe me, If he loses to Vandy or USCjr or Kentucky any of the 2 and that is very possible! He will be out the door.
 
#224
#224
Evol said:
What worries me about Venables is he's never been a HC. It's hard to think of a DC who's had success with his first HC job being in the SEC.

Why can't we pony up and spend the money on a proven HC? Seems we are the only prominent program nationally that's unwilling to do so.
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He has coached under Snyder, Stoops, and now Dabo. Gruden or Kelly, those are the only guys that we could pony up for and it's be considered a big-time hire. What other proven coach is out there?
 
#225
#225
jordan4vols said:
Butch makes 4 million right now. You can throw your salary out the window and it's more like 8 to 9,000,000 to make a coaching change at the head coach position. Then of course you have all the coordinators. But there are offsets written contracts for the new job so we'll see what happens
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Well, most probably you have a buyout of the other coach you want to hire. :) You are typically looking at a $12-20m deal now a days, much much more than that for one of the top ones. The assumption is there is an offset, but most probably they are getting a job for much less money... probably have to take an assistant coach job as well, which what pays 1/20th of the contract.

Mullen's name keeps coming up but his record is not good even against lesser opponents, he did whip LSU the other night. He is currently making $4.5m, I don't think the details are known for coming years but its possible his salary goes up every year. Why would he take a job at UT when he can probably make $4.5-5.5m at MSU and he doesn't have to win? Haha.

Mullen is going to cost you dearly because he really doesn't need the job, I wouldn't look at it for less than $7m, than you have to question paying that type of money when his record is so bad.

You guys are staring to figure out what LSU figured out last year. The top guys don't get you even at the table without $100m+... that just gets you to the table... most probably you are looking at $150m over 10 years if not more.
 
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