Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXVI

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#8,326
#8,326
By all reports Butch seems like a really nice guy who loves Tennessee. But does anybody else think he's kind of a panty waist? Nothing about him screams alpha male. May sound silly but that's pretty important in a head coach if you ask me. Just listening to him talk and reading his body language on camera and on the sideline he just doesn't look genuinely confident.
 
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#8,327
#8,327
Chief Vol 13 said:
By all reports Butch seems like a really nice guy who loves Tennessee. But does anybody else think he's kind of a sissy? Nothing about him screams alpha male. May sound silly but that's pretty important in a head coach if you ask me. Just listening to him talk and reading his body language on camera and on the sideline he just doesn't look genuinely confident.
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No killer instinct. No drive to embarrass the opponent. This isn't a league to tip toe, you have to drop the hammer from the get go and Butch can't do it.
 
#8,328
#8,328
I feel like if another coach caught him in a back alley somewhere and landed a punch Butch would probably just fall and get in the fetile position. I'm having a little fun but at the same time that is kind of how I view him in real life.
 
#8,329
#8,329
In a way I'm more at peace with where this team is now than I was this time last week. I'm lower on Butch than I've ever been just about, but I'm not ruling out the possibility of a 2015-esque season where we somehow rally back to 8 wins (with a roster that had 9-10 win potential).


If not, then I'm thinking we see a change in December. Maybe Butch realizes he's better off skipping town and jumping to low tier P5 school or G5 even. Maybe Currie nuts up and gives him the boot. Either way, I'm starting to think 7-5 won't do it. We already know that coaching, not lack of talent or injuries, has led to one loss. If we lose 4 more, this most likely won't be the last.


On the other hand, some of the best games we've seen from Butch came when the fanbase and media were out for his head and he managed to circle the bandwagons and keep the team together.

We saw the offense move the ball today. We know we have some players who can be difference makers. We saw the defense play mostly solid. The big question, IMO, is going to be if the coaches learn from the MANY mistakes they made this game (no prevent defense with the clock running out, poor clock management at the end of the game, no runs inside the 10 yard line, no goal line offense, running zone read with QD despite him being no threat to run, etc) and make some meaningful adjustments to give the team a chance to get past 6-7 wins.

If they don't, then we know this staff is mediocre at best. If they do, well then honestly that's a harder position for Currie than he opposite, IMO. If we get to 8 wins, what changes do you make Butch make? Can you expect him to be flexible enough to make any chances? Do you extend his contract in a meaningful way? Do you try to add a band-aid one year extension to it? Do refuse any extensions and tell him to stay here, find a new job, or pound sand?


Very difficult questions, IMO. And honestly I kinda feel like we may see this play out in the most difficult way for Currie (i.e. 8 wins with a win vs LSU or UGA and a loss to Vandy or U.K.) THAT would be the most Tennessee thing ever.
 
#8,330
#8,330
I just miss the days of imposing our will on opponents.

We did it in spurts last year but never a full game. And it seemed like even then it was more of the players doing than the coaches philosophy.

Tired of kicking FCS teams around.

Tired of hoping Butch could grow as a coach. Tonight just proved after year 5, with a team of his players in his system, a very talented team, we couldn't outcoach a guy that can't develop a QB, can't recruit the best in a state loaded with talent.

Florida's players did exactly what Tim Priest said, they overcame their coaching.

Donkey isn't a good coach and thats what sucks the most.
 
#8,331
#8,331
Tennessee Golfer said:
No killer instinct. No drive to embarrass the opponent. This isn't a league to tip toe, you have to drop the hammer from the get go and Butch can't do it.
Click to expand...

I think it's more like he outsmarts himself. When you've got a guy tearing it up like Kelly was tonight, you just hand him the ball when you get in the red zone, you don't put it on your shaky QB. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
 
#8,333
#8,333
MrVolton said:
I think it's more like he outsmarts himself. When you've got a guy tearing it up like Kelly was tonight, you just hand him the ball when you get in the red zone, you don't put it on your shaky QB. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
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But Butch said there were some "scheme things" that kept them from handing the ball to the best player on the field when they needed 6 inches.
 
#8,334
#8,334
Darth_Shiveman said:
In a way I'm more at peace with where this team is now than I was this time last week. I'm lower on Butch than I've ever been just about, but I'm not ruling out the possibility of a 2015-esque season where we somehow rally back to 8 wins (with a roster that had 9-10 win potential).


If not, then I'm thinking we see a change in December. Maybe Butch realizes he's better off skipping town and jumping to low tier P5 school or G5 even. Maybe Currie nuts up and gives him the boot. Either way, I'm starting to think 7-5 won't do it. We already know that coaching, not lack of talent or injuries, has led to one loss. If we lose 4 more, this most likely won't be the last.


On the other hand, some of the best games we've seen from Butch came when the fanbase and media were out for his head and he managed to circle the bandwagons and keep the team together.

We saw the offense move the ball today. We know we have some players who can be difference makers. We saw the defense play mostly solid. The big question, IMO, is going to be if the coaches learn from the MANY mistakes they made this game (no prevent defense with the clock running out, poor clock management at the end of the game, no runs inside the 10 yard line, no goal line offense, running zone read with QD despite him being no threat to run, etc) and make some meaningful adjustments to give the team a chance to get past 6-7 wins.

If they don't, then we know this staff is mediocre at best. If they do, well then honestly that's a harder position for Currie than he opposite, IMO. If we get to 8 wins, what changes do you make Butch make? Can you expect him to be flexible enough to make any chances? Do you extend his contract in a meaningful way? Do you try to add a band-aid one year extension to it? Do refuse any extensions and tell him to stay here, find a new job, or pound sand?


Very difficult questions, IMO. And honestly I kinda feel like we may see this play out in the most difficult way for Currie (i.e. 8 wins with a win vs LSU or UGA and a loss to Vandy or U.K.) THAT would be the most Tennessee thing ever.
Click to expand...

I think they need to cut bait if there are any other performances like the one tonight. Currie has been around long enough to know the difference between a player making a bad play and a bad coaching decisions.

Even if you remove the bad plays and mistakes committed by players (which Butch is still partially responsible for), the poor coaching decisions alone should give you something to worry about. They are the same poor decisions he was making 4 years ago. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and hoping he had learned but it doesn't seem like it.

Either he isn't a very creative person and that's why he adherss to his system so religiously and his charts or he is stubborn.

Either one can be a career killer.
 
#8,335
#8,335
Guys take it easy....this was the first time 27 of our players played in the swamp. Those are really ridiculous odds to overcome.
 
#8,340
#8,340
Darth_Shiveman said:
In a way I'm more at peace with where this team is now than I was this time last week. I'm lower on Butch than I've ever been just about, but I'm not ruling out the possibility of a 2015-esque season where we somehow rally back to 8 wins (with a roster that had 9-10 win potential).


If not, then I'm thinking we see a change in December. Maybe Butch realizes he's better off skipping town and jumping to low tier P5 school or G5 even. Maybe Currie nuts up and gives him the boot. Either way, I'm starting to think 7-5 won't do it. We already know that coaching, not lack of talent or injuries, has led to one loss. If we lose 4 more, this most likely won't be the last.


On the other hand, some of the best games we've seen from Butch came when the fanbase and media were out for his head and he managed to circle the bandwagons and keep the team together.

We saw the offense move the ball today. We know we have some players who can be difference makers. We saw the defense play mostly solid. The big question, IMO, is going to be if the coaches learn from the MANY mistakes they made this game (no prevent defense with the clock running out, poor clock management at the end of the game, no runs inside the 10 yard line, no goal line offense, running zone read with QD despite him being no threat to run, etc) and make some meaningful adjustments to give the team a chance to get past 6-7 wins.

If they don't, then we know this staff is mediocre at best. If they do, well then honestly that's a harder position for Currie than he opposite, IMO. If we get to 8 wins, what changes do you make Butch make? Can you expect him to be flexible enough to make any chances? Do you extend his contract in a meaningful way? Do you try to add a band-aid one year extension to it? Do refuse any extensions and tell him to stay here, find a new job, or pound sand?


Very difficult questions, IMO. And honestly I kinda feel like we may see this play out in the most difficult way for Currie (i.e. 8 wins with a win vs LSU or UGA and a loss to Vandy or U.K.) THAT would be the most Tennessee thing ever.
Click to expand...

I think if JG starts this is possible 9 win team. Lsu didn't look good at all, possibly even worse than us, Umass next week to hopefully rest, while Uga has MSU. Our Oline proved they are good, Our RB's are great, We have playmakers at WR. And our Defense proved they are better than what they showed vs GT. Are they great? No. Good? Eh. Decent, yea. Florida had 380 yards (too much I know). But 63 of that came off of a terrible, terrible call with cover 2. 70 more of that came from that run that Martin causes the fumble on. Outside of 2 plays we looked good. I mean, for 50 minutes of the game the defense was good/great. Will the players be able to over come poor coaching? I don't know. But if JG starts, I think there's a solid chance we go 9-3. UK is UK, SoCar just lost Samuel, UGA is solid but Still kinda a ?. Vandy... Looks pretty good. Mizzou lol. Bama is Bama. But Lsu is looks winnable imo.

It'll be interesting how it plays out. I really don't see Butch starting JG tho.... So here comes 7-5
 
#8,342
#8,342
Darth_Shiveman said:
I took "scheme issue" to mean "we never installed any goal line sets in our scheme."
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I took it as him not throwing Scott under the bus. I mean, its lose/lose for him either way. "It was terrible play call by Scott it won't happen again" gets media to be like "wow I can't believe he threw him under the bus". While also likely making Scott mad. He blames himself/says this, people are still gonna be mad at Butch.
 
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#8,345
#8,345
Smokey123 said:
I think if JG starts this is possible 9 win team. Lsu didn't look good at all, possibly even worse than us, Umass next week to hopefully rest, while Uga has MSU. Our Oline proved they are good, Our RB's are great, We have playmakers at WR. And our Defense proved they are better than what they showed vs GT. Are they great? No. Good? Eh. Decent, yea. Florida had 380 yards (too much I know). But 63 of that came off of a terrible, terrible call with cover 2. 70 more of that came from that run that Martin causes the fumble on. Outside of 2 plays we looked good. I mean, for 50 minutes of the game the defense was good/great. Will the players be able to over come poor coaching? I don't know. But if JG starts, I think there's a solid chance we go 9-3. UK is UK, SoCar just lost Samuel, UGA is solid but Still kinda a ?. Vandy... Looks pretty good. Mizzou lol. Bama is Bama. But Lsu is looks winnable imo.

It'll be interesting how it plays out. I really don't see Butch starting JG tho.... So here comes 7-5
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Honestly idk that a QB change helps us too much with the coordinating issues we have. They've shown they're not good at utilizing Dormady's skill set and putting him in a position to succeed. Why would that change with JG?

I've already resigned myself to the fact that we're never going to see what JG can become as a CFB QB here unless Dormady is injured. Coaches made up their minds on this QB battle months ago.
 
#8,347
#8,347
Smokey123 said:
I took it as him not throwing Scott under the bus. I mean, its lose/lose for him either way. "It was terrible play call by Scott it won't happen again" gets media to be like "wow I can't believe he threw him under the bus". While also likely making Scott mad. He blames himself/says this, people are still gonna be mad at Butch.
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It's not like it's impossible to answer that question without throwing him under the bus.

The telling thing here is that there is no acceptable answer for it and Butch knows.
 
#8,348
#8,348
VolBalla2014 said:
Doesn't matter. After Butch gets fired to appease yall, I doubt we keep half of our recruiting class
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I would rather lose this class than continue seeing poor game day decisions against our biggest rivaLs.

Georgia is the only one we have beaten consistently and that may change soon.

Our recruiting will suffer if we continue losing these types of games where we lose to a lesser talented team.

Recruits may be young but they play the game and can see the same bad decisions that we do. After awhile they won't come to be a part of that.

It's a double edged sword but sometimes you just gotta fall on it and move on.

I just want to compete. There arent any reasons with the talent wr have that we shouldnt. But tonight that became a remote possibility. We still have UGA and bama.
 
#8,349
#8,349
Darth_Shiveman said:
Honestly idk that a QB change helps us too much with the coordinating issues we have. They've shown they're not good at utilizing Dormady's skill set and putting him in a position to succeed. Why would that change with JG?

I've already resigned myself to the fact that we're never going to see what JG can become as a CFB QB here unless Dormady is injured. Coaches made up their minds on this QB battle months ago.
Click to expand...

Same way our offense went from struggling bad with Worley to looking pretty good with Dobbs. A DT QB changes things, makes play calling easier because the defense has to account for his legs, keeps me guessing. Besides, JG can't be any worse passing the ball than QD.

Me too, but I still have some hope. Not gonna lie, when I saw Dormady go out for a play and JG come in, I got super excited.... 😕
 
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