Charlottesville white nationalists riots

#352
#352
Carl Pickens said:
Looks like the '56-'01 version backs you up, but it was dropped over 15 years ago
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That's true, my link to today for Georgia was incorrect, though it still has some Confederate elements. My main point, though, was that the flag made a comeback during the civil rights movement; it carried some negative meaning for black people, for good reasons, much more recently than the Civil War.

And for people just reading these last posts, this isn't part of a larger argument about what happened today; it's more of a side conversation.
 
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#353
#353
volfanhill said:
So if you are 50 you spent 35 years living in a state actively protesting your equality? Plus many more states introduced confederate crap in their flag after Jim Crow was done.
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Not to mention it is a powerful symbol of treason and traitors to the Republic.
 
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#355
#355
NashVol11 said:
That's true, my link to today for Georgia was incorrect, though it still has some Confederate elements. My main point, though, was that the flag made a comeback during the civil rights movement; it carried some negative meaning for black people, for good reasons, much more recently than the Civil War.

And for people just reading these last posts, this isn't part of a larger argument about what happened today; it's more of a side conversation.
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The colors are the same..... I guess....not getting too specific on the PMS numbers.... but that's it. It looks nothing like the confederate flag.
 
#356
#356
Carl Pickens said:
And times have changed.... so what's the problem now?
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Um bc the state publicly advertised a black person being a second class citizen until 15 years ago. Meaning unless you are 15 that's where you lived. It's like claiming when the civil rights act passed you were suddenly treated equally. They were not. It's not even debatable.
 
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#357
#357
Carl Pickens said:
The colors are the same..... I guess....not getting too specific on the PMS numbers.... but that's it. It looks nothing like the confederate flag.
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The current Georgia flag is basically the Stars and Bars, the original Confederate flag.

us-csa13.gif


That's what I meant by Confederate elements. Certainly an improvement over the 1956 version though
 
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#358
#358
volfanhill said:
Um bc the state publicly advertised a black person being a second class citizen until 15 years ago. Meaning unless you are 15 that's where you lived. It's like claiming when the civil rights act passed you were suddenly treated equally. They were not. It's not even debatable.
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That's a bit much. I can understand the sentiment. Was the intent of GA to do as you claim?
 
#360
#360
McDad said:
That's a bit much. I can understand the sentiment. Was the intent of GA to do as you claim?
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When they adopted it yes. The years of not changing it probably not. But if you are a black person living in GA in the 90's I could understand if they felt it it was implied.
 
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#361
#361
NashVol11 said:
The current Georgia flag is basically the Stars and Bars, the original Confederate flag.

us-csa13.gif


That's what I meant by Confederate elements. Certainly an improvement over the 1956 version though
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I say it looks more like the original American flag
 

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#363
#363
NashVol11 said:
This specifically really isn't an argument I'm making about today's events. I'm just making the point that "most black people" DO care about certain Confederate symbols, namely the flag.

FTR, the flag was also used heavily in the 1950s and '60s to protest desegregation. That's a large part of the reason why it's in so many state flags now. And again, I think it's a ridiculous notion to suggest that only those who lived through the oppression are allowed to dislike the flag. Is a Jew born in 1946 not allowed to dislike the Nazi flag?
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So many State flags? You mean all of one?

Now, you can say they "care" and get "negative" reactions to a symbol. My point is when does a culture stop reaching into the past and blaming it for their current lot in life? Slavery ended over 150 years ago. Segregation ended 50 years ago. Now, you can pull a D4H and go all crazy with the "errbody racist up in this nation!" notion, but that typically doesn't fly and you know it. Now, I will freely admit racism is still around and likely always will be, though certainly not as wide scale as some would like you to believe. However, I'm also intelligent to realize it happens on both sides of that equation. And you can go further down that D4H path and say "well, that violence is justified for 400 years of slavery!" Which, again, doesn't fly.

However, here's another thought. You could realize there is a segment that's profiting from keeping you divided. That points to a Confederate flag and says "See! The white man is keeping you down with his racism!" and damning an entire race based on the actions of the extreme few. They point to a piece of cloth with three colors and focus your anger while continuing to use you to do their menial labor which keeps their pockets filled with the division it causes. And you know what that's called?

Slavery.

Now, you can make the choice to reject the "negative" feelings a piece of cloth gives you and address the subject head on with words and reasonable dialog. Or you can continue to be a pawn of the hatred that keeps people apart. You can feel sorry for those that wave that flag because you know you are better than them and judge people based on their character and not by the color of their skin. You can stand up to those who promote division and call their bluff. You can call out your own race that calls people like Ben Carson "sellouts" and "Uncle Tom's" and use them as an example of what can be achieved when you don't feel sorry for yourself and use symbols as a irrational reason for hatred.

The choice is yours. Be a slave to your own mind or change the paradigm and reject those of all sides that would keep people apart.
 
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#365
#365
volfanhill said:
Um bc the state publicly advertised a black person being a second class citizen until 15 years ago. Meaning unless you are 15 that's where you lived. It's like claiming when the civil rights act passed you were suddenly treated equally. They were not. It's not even debatable.
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So what do you suggest they do about it now? They recognized it was an issue and changed it.
I don't know about you, but I'd guess there aren't a whole lot of people who even give their state flag's appearance a second thought.
 
#366
#366
Carl Pickens said:
So what do you suggest they do about it now? They recognized it was an issue and changed it.
I don't know about you, but I'd guess there aren't a whole lot of people who even give their state flag's appearance a second thought.
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I don't know about you, but my grandfather wasn't forced to attend separate schools and drink from different water fountains.

We all have different sensibilities in life . Most from our own experiences.
 
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#367
#367
And one more thing Nash, when you see a bunch of Jews show up and start fighting a bunch of skinheads at a rally, let me know.
 
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#368
#368
Grand Vol said:
So many State flags? You mean all of one?

Now, you can say they "care" and get "negative" reactions to a symbol. My point is when does a culture stop reaching into the past and blaming it for their current lot in life? Slavery ended over 150 years ago. Segregation ended 50 years ago. Now, you can pull a D4H and go all crazy with the "errbody racist up in this nation!" notion, but that typically doesn't fly and you know it. Now, I will freely admit racism is still around and likely always will be, though certainly not as wide scale as some would like you to believe. However, I'm also intelligent to realize it happens on both sides of that equation. And you can go further down that D4H path and say "well, that violence is justified for 400 years of slavery!" Which, again, doesn't fly.

However, here's another thought. You could realize there is a segment that's profiting from keeping you divided. That points to a Confederate flag and says "See! The white man is keeping you down with his racism!" and damning an entire race based on the actions of the extreme few. They point to a piece of cloth with three colors and focus your anger while continuing to use you to do their menial labor which keeps their pockets filled with the division it causes. And you know what that's called?

Slavery.

Now, you can make the choice to reject the "negative" feelings a piece of cloth gives you and address the subject head on with words and reasonable dialog. Or you can continue to be a pawn of the hatred that keeps people apart. You can feel sorry for those that wave that flag because you know you are better than them and judge people based on their character and not by the color of their skin. You can stand up to those who promote division and call their bluff. You can call out your own race that calls people like Ben Carson "sellouts" and "Uncle Tom's" and use them as an example of what can be achieved when you don't feel sorry for yourself and use symbols as a irrational reason for hatred.

The choice is yours. Be a slave to your own mind or change the paradigm and reject those of all sides that would keep people apart.
Click to expand...

Wow Grand..... if you'd have written me into your book or invited me to go to Pasedena with you for the Rose Bowl.... I'd give you really nice compliment on this post....but you didn't
 
#369
#369
Carl Pickens said:
And times have changed.... so what's the problem now?
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What is your reaction when you see a confederate flag displayed somewhere on a car? What is your immediate judgement about the car's owner, assuming you know nothing else about the person.
 
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#370
#370
Grand Vol said:
So many State flags? You mean all of one?

Now, you can say they "care" and get "negative" reactions to a symbol. My point is when does a culture stop reaching into the past and blaming it for their current lot in life? Slavery ended over 150 years ago. Segregation ended 50 years ago. Now, you can pull a D4H and go all crazy with the "errbody racist up in this nation!" notion, but that typically doesn't fly and you know it. Now, I will freely admit racism is still around and likely always will be, though certainly not as wide scale as some would like you to believe. However, I'm also intelligent to realize it happens on both sides of that equation. And you can go further down that D4H path and say "well, that violence is justified for 400 years of slavery!" Which, again, doesn't fly.

However, here's another thought. You could realize there is a segment that's profiting from keeping you divided. That points to a Confederate flag and says "See! The white man is keeping you down with his racism!" and damning an entire race based on the actions of the extreme few. They point to a piece of cloth with three colors and focus your anger while continuing to use you to do their menial labor which keeps their pockets filled with the division it causes. And you know what that's called?

Slavery.

Now, you can make the choice to reject the "negative" feelings a piece of cloth gives you and address the subject head on with words and reasonable dialog. Or you can continue to be a pawn of the hatred that keeps people apart. You can feel sorry for those that wave that flag because you know you are better than them and judge people based on their character and not by the color of their skin. You can stand up to those who promote division and call their bluff. You can call out your own race that calls people like Ben Carson "sellouts" and "Uncle Tom's" and use them as an example of what can be achieved when you don't feel sorry for yourself and use symbols as a irrational reason for hatred.

The choice is yours. Be a slave to your own mind or change the paradigm and reject those of all sides that would keep people apart.
Click to expand...

I'm just saying black people generally don't like the Confederate flag. That shouldn't be controversial in any way. You can give me all the speeches you want about how black people "should" be okay with the flag (it's always fun when white people tell black people what should and shouldn't upset them), but this generally seems incredibly irrelevant to me.
 
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#371
#371
luthervol said:
What is your reaction when you see a confederate flag displayed somewhere on a car? What is your immediate judgement about the car's owner, assuming you know nothing else about the person.
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Of course it's "redneck"..... what's the point?
 
#372
#372
Grand Vol said:
And one more thing Nash, when you see a bunch of Jews show up and start fighting a bunch of skinheads at a rally, let me know.
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We can make the Confederate flag discussion a separate thread, if you want. Clearly my repeated statements of "I am not making a larger point about the events in Charlottesville today" aren't registering.
 
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#373
#373
Carl Pickens said:
Wow Grand..... if you'd have written me into your book or invited me to go to Pasedena with you for the Rose Bowl.... I'd give you really nice compliment on this post....but you didn't
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He doesn't like you.
 
#374
#374
NashVol11 said:
I'm just saying black people generally don't like the Confederate flag. That shouldn't be controversial in any way. You can give me all the speeches you want about how black people "should" be okay with the flag (it's always fun when white people tell black people what should and shouldn't upset them), but this generally seems incredibly irrelevant to me.
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How do you know I'm white?
 
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