Just how talented is the 2017 Vols roster?

#27
#27
Jaws said:
Maybe I can explain it. Florida returns everyone on offense, playmakers and experience at every position and finally some options and promise at QB. They return the best punter/kicker duo in America.

On defense, which seems to be what all the skeptics point to, they return way more talent and experience than people realize; 10 players who started at least 3 games in 2016, 3 players with more than 10 career starts, 6 players with significant action but less than 3 starts. Ridiculous depth at DT/DE (8-deep), solid experienced starters at LB (will admit here that beyond the first four, others will need to emerge) and three secondary players who have played a ton of football (Dawson, Washington, Gardner). So I guess some can question the Secondary, but I'm telling you this, Florida's DB haul in the last recruiting class was ridiculous. 6 guys, with 4 or 5 of them who will not only play, but will be studs this year. Most of them are south Florida guys, tall and rangy ballhawks, freak athletes who can fly. If you are holding your own in practice against Callaway, Cleveland and Powell, you're going to be fine.

Florida's defense will be fine. Florida's season hinges on a QB. If they get the QB, it will be back to Atlanta and for more than an appearance this year, to actually compete with Alabama (or whomever).
Click to expand...

This is from florida 247sports about yesterday's practice:

"The offense's start was less than encouraging
If you were hoping for a rather immediate and sudden turnaround for Florida on offense, the start to Monday's practice probably wasn't all that reassuring.

The offense was out of sync completely in the fastball 11-on-11 portion of practice.

The second- and third-string units led off the session simultaneously, and it took just one play for things to turn south. Working with the backups, tight end Moral Stephens dropped a simple out route from Feleipe Franks.

Moments later, Jordan Smith manhandled the third-team offensive line for an easy sack on Luke Del Rio. Luke Ancrum and CeCe Jefferson followed that up with a routine sack on Franks.

Finally, Feleipe Franks tried to force in a throw to Dre Massey that never had a chance. Walk-on linebacker Cristian Garcia should have picked it off, but it bounced off his chest and narrowly fell incomplete between two defenders.

Malik Zaire, working with the first-team offense for the first time in any of the open sessions the media has seen, didn't fare much better.

Jordan Scarlett was stoned at the line of scrimmage on the first play for very little gain. Then Zaire and receiver Joshua Hammond were on the wrong page on a deep route. Zaire threw a corner and Hammond appeared to be running a fly, never getting his head around at all to see the ball.

On the last play of fastball, Zaire scrambled to his left and threw on the run to Brandon Powell. The pass went into the dirt a good five feet before it ever reached Powell.

Though the quarterbacks cleaned things up throwing the routes-on-air drill, the start of Monday's practice made it clear there's still plenty of work to be done on offense. Communication and execution still need major improvement."

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#28
#28
IndianaVolunteer said:
I agree about Florida. I don't get all the hype with the talent drop off especially on defense.
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The Gators have had 15 players drafted off the last two teams...that's what McElwain inherited...they will always be tough but I don't think they will have an NFL defense like they have had the last couple of years...of course Alabama still will...
 
#31
#31
Orange_Vol1321 said:
This is from florida 247sports about yesterday's practice:

"The offense's start was less than encouraging
If you were hoping for a rather immediate and sudden turnaround for Florida on offense, the start to Monday's practice probably wasn't all that reassuring.

The offense was out of sync completely in the fastball 11-on-11 portion of practice.

The second- and third-string units led off the session simultaneously, and it took just one play for things to turn south. Working with the backups, tight end Moral Stephens dropped a simple out route from Feleipe Franks.

Moments later, Jordan Smith manhandled the third-team offensive line for an easy sack on Luke Del Rio. Luke Ancrum and CeCe Jefferson followed that up with a routine sack on Franks.

Finally, Feleipe Franks tried to force in a throw to Dre Massey that never had a chance. Walk-on linebacker Cristian Garcia should have picked it off, but it bounced off his chest and narrowly fell incomplete between two defenders.

Malik Zaire, working with the first-team offense for the first time in any of the open sessions the media has seen, didn't fare much better.

Jordan Scarlett was stoned at the line of scrimmage on the first play for very little gain. Then Zaire and receiver Joshua Hammond were on the wrong page on a deep route. Zaire threw a corner and Hammond appeared to be running a fly, never getting his head around at all to see the ball.

On the last play of fastball, Zaire scrambled to his left and threw on the run to Brandon Powell. The pass went into the dirt a good five feet before it ever reached Powell.

Though the quarterbacks cleaned things up throwing the routes-on-air drill, the start of Monday's practice made it clear there's still plenty of work to be done on offense. Communication and execution still need major improvement."

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Click to expand...

Here's hoping they play their 2nd & 3rd stringers vs. UT on Sept. 16th. :good!:
 
#32
#32
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
So rather than waiting for 247 to put out their rankings of talent level in college football, I decided to do my own research and see if I could put together a list that is more accurate. It always confused my why people weigh recruiting classes equally. Just think about this logically. Why should the freshmen class be treated the same as the junior class? If you had only one top 5 class on campus, wouldn't you rather it be your junior class that is loaded rather than your freshmen class since the juniors have more experience and more likely to make a huge impact? For most of the elite teams like Alabama, Ohio State, and Florida State, this distinction doesn't matter cause they recruit top 5 classes every year. However, this distinction will prove significant for a team like Michigan vs a team like Tennessee. How come? Because Tennessee's talent is concentrated in their senior and junior class while Michigan's talent is concentrated in their freshmen and sophomore classes. If you just averaged their last 4 classes, they would be ranked similarly, however, which situation would you rather be in? Would you want your loaded classes be experienced seniors and juniors or inexperienced freshmen and sophomores? It should stand to reason that Tennessee should be ranked higher since the senior and junior class ranking should get more weight.

So here is my methodology: I counted the number of 4-star and 5-star recruits signed over the last 4 years. Then I weighted each of those classes based on the percentage of seniors, juniors, sophomores, and freshmen teams typically have in their 2-deep. For example, Tennessee's projected 2-deep will have 11 seniors, 17 juniors, 11 sophomores, and 6 freshmen. So my formula came out to this: [# of 4 and 5-star players from 2014 x (1)] + [# of 4 and 5-star players from 2015 x (1.75)] + [# of 4 and 5-star players from 2016 x (1)] + [# of 4 and 5-star players from 2017 x (0.25)] = total talent score.

And without further ado here is how the rankings came out:

***NOTE*** The number you see next to the team name is the total score I got based on my formula above and the numbers in the parenthesis are the number of 4-star and 5-star recruits according to the 247composite rankings that the school signed in the past 4 years. The order goes (2014, 2015, 2016, 2017).

TIER ONE (70+ points)
1. Alabama - 80.00 (22, 20, 17, 24)

TIER TWO (60-70 points)
2. Ohio State - 65.00 (16, 15, 18, 19)
3. Auburn - 63.75 (13, 20, 13, 11)
4. Florida State - 62.00 (16, 14, 18, 14)
5. LSU - 61.50 (17, 13, 18, 15)

TIER THREE (50-60 points)
6. USC - 59.00 (10, 18, 14, 14)
7. Georgia - 56.75 (13, 14, 14, 21)
8. Tennessee - 55.25 (16, 16, 10, 5)
9. Notre Dame - 53.00 (16, 14, 10, 10)
10. Texas - 50.25 (8, 14, 16, 7)

TIER FOUR (35-50 points)
11. Texas A&M - 47.00 (14, 13, 8, 9)
12. Clemson - 45.50 (10, 12, 12, 10)
13. UCLA - 43.50 (9, 13, 10, 7)
14. Oklahoma - 41.00 (9, 10, 10, 18)
15. Michigan - 38.75 (9, 6, 14, 21)
16. Penn State - 38.50 (5, 13, 8, 11)

TIER FIVE (25-35 points)
17. Ole Miss - 34.00 (6, 7, 15, 3)
18. Miami - 28.25 (8, 5, 9, 10)
19. Stanford - 28.25 (8, 5, 9, 10)
20. Florida - 27.75 (9, 4, 9, 11)


Interesting Results:
  • ITS ALABAMA AND THEN EVERYONE ELSE. Honestly, I was shocked by how much more talented Alabama's roster is than everybody else. As you can see, nobody else even breaks into the 70s in terms of their final score. But there is Alabama by themselves in the 80s over 15 points clear of everyone else. To put it in perspective, at least according to my rankings, there is a bigger gap in talent between Alabama and Ohio State who rank #1 and #2 than there is between #2 Ohio State and #10 Texas. THAT'S CRAZY. No wonder Nick Saban and Alabama are always in the national title game.
  • Auburn and Notre Dame ended up a little higher on this list than I would have expected. Auburn was helped mainly by the fact that they signed 20 4 and 5-star recruits in 2015. While Notre Dame has just signed solid classes each and every year the last 4 years. I wouldn't be surprised if Notre Dame has a huge bounce back year this season. They have too much talent not to be very good.
  • Tennessee plays 3 teams that according to these rankings are more talented. However, the talent level between Tennessee and Georgia is nearly identical. Given that Tennessee will have home-field advantage, I think we can say that we should be the favorite in that match-up. LSU is also a little bit more talented than Tennessee but that game is also at home. Tennessee should have every chance in the world to win that game because the gap in talent between LSU and Tennessee isn't wide enough to overcome home field advantage. The only game on Tennessee's 2017 schedule that looks unwinnable is the road game against Alabama in Tuscaloosa. Other than for that game, Tennessee should have a good chance to win every other game. 10-2 should be the expectation with 11-1 being a distinct possibility.
  • And finally, my goodness is Florida in trouble. They are less talented than 6 of the teams they play this year (Florida State, LSU, Georgia, Tennessee, Texas A&M, and Michigan). I don't think home-field will be enough to close the gap against Florida State, LSU, and Tennessee because the gap in talent between those teams and Florida is just huge according to my rankings. The games against Georgia and Michigan also look unwinnable because they are at neutral sites rather than being home games that Florida could benefit from. The only game where Florida is less talented than their opponent that they have a decent chance of winning is against Texas A&M. The gap in talent in that game could be close enough that home-field becomes an advantage. All in all, the recruiting rankings say Florida could be in for a very rough year. And its the fact they only signed 4 recruits in the 2015 class that were either 4-stars or 5-stars that will hurt them this year.
Click to expand...

Nice job buddy!! I don't know what you do for a living, but with this type of effort, I am sure that you excel at it.
 
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#33
#33
IndianaVolunteer said:
I agree about Florida. I don't get all the hype with the talent drop off especially on defense.
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Not only that but a change at DC as well. Shark humper has gone for recruiters over coaches. They are racking up a heck of a class but that wont help them this year.
 
#34
#34
Jaws said:
Maybe I can explain it. Florida returns everyone on offense, playmakers and experience at every position and finally some options and promise at QB. They return the best punter/kicker duo in America.

On defense, which seems to be what all the skeptics point to, they return way more talent and experience than people realize; 10 players who started at least 3 games in 2016, 3 players with more than 10 career starts, 6 players with significant action but less than 3 starts. Ridiculous depth at DT/DE (8-deep), solid experienced starters at LB (will admit here that beyond the first four, others will need to emerge) and three secondary players who have played a ton of football (Dawson, Washington, Gardner). So I guess some can question the Secondary, but I'm telling you this, Florida's DB haul in the last recruiting class was ridiculous. 6 guys, with 4 or 5 of them who will not only play, but will be studs this year. Most of them are south Florida guys, tall and rangy ballhawks, freak athletes who can fly. If you are holding your own in practice against Callaway, Cleveland and Powell, you're going to be fine.

Florida's defense will be fine. Florida's season hinges on a QB. If they get the QB, it will be back to Atlanta and for more than an appearance this year, to actually compete with Alabama (or whomever).
Click to expand...

Florida sucks.
 
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#35
#35
Heard this morning that we may be canceling a scrimmage because it wouldnt be competitive due to injuries on the offensive line.

Id love to get D4H opinion on this and how its compatible with his previous assessment that we have 3 4 layers?
 
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#36
#36
D4H, I'm proud of you. You wrote a a well-reasoned and in-depth assessment of the conference using a scoring system you created. And it was a good read. Well done.

Now we just gotta keep you on your meds during the season when things seem at their darkest. Keep you on even keel then, and you could be fully rehabilitated into the ranks of not-totally-insane VolNation members. :good!:
 
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#37
#37
lots of bashing D4H over the years. But maybe he ain't such a bad guy after all.

In this post he spent a lot of time and did a good job for us all and we should appreciate him for it.

I gave him a thumbs up and everyone who reads it should too.
 
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#42
#42
i honestly have no clue how good we are going to be this year, I am excited for some older players and esp some of the younger kids. I am prepared for a tough year but optimistic we play well, same goes for FLA, living down here its all i see esp at work, all these biomedical nerds from Gainsville, i guess i would pick GA as the front runner for our side of the SEC, but they usually falter and never met expectations....but saying that, neither do we....
 
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#43
#43
Boca Vol said:
You aren't kidding. Those things are scary!
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The current one is amazing. So many sinkholes are the result of poorly done or failing water or sewer systems. but this one seems different - you almost get the feeling FL population has outstripped resources and finally managed to upset the underlying geology holding things up.
 
#44
#44
ru4real-really? said:
lots of bashing D4H over the years. But maybe he ain't such a bad guy after all.

In this post he spent a lot of time and did a good job for us all and we should appreciate him for it.

I gave him a thumbs up and everyone who reads it should too.
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D4H aint a bad guy at all, just says alot of dumb things in the course of his extreme optimism. Gives us all alot to talk about.
 
#45
#45
volfannbama said:
D4H aint a bad guy at all, just says alot of dumb things in the course of his extreme optimism. Gives us all alot to talk about.
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I never really minded his extreme optimism, could look past that just the same as we do with Nationdom, Mink, and others.

It was when he abandoned (and then trash-talked) our own lads mid-season that he lost my respect.

But the door should always be open to rehabilitation. D4H seems more even-tempered, more steady in his support for the team these days. Just hoping it lasts through the rough-and-tumble of a season.

Go Vols!
 
#46
#46
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
  • And finally, my goodness is Florida in trouble. They are less talented than 6 of the teams they play this year (Florida State, LSU, Georgia, Tennessee, Texas A&M, and Michigan). I don't think home-field will be enough to close the gap against Florida State, LSU, and Tennessee because the gap in talent between those teams and Florida is just huge according to my rankings. The games against Georgia and Michigan also look unwinnable because they are at neutral sites rather than being home games that Florida could benefit from. The only game where Florida is less talented than their opponent that they have a decent chance of winning is against Texas A&M. The gap in talent in that game could be close enough that home-field becomes an advantage. All in all, the recruiting rankings say Florida could be in for a very rough year. And its the fact they only signed 4 recruits in the 2015 class that were either 4-stars or 5-stars that will hurt them this year.
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Not to defend Florida here but your analysis is flawed because you have players like Antonio Calloway a 3 star that outplays most 4 star receivers we have on our roster.
 
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#50
#50
Orange_Vol1321 said:
This is from florida 247sports about yesterday's practice:

"The offense's start was less than encouraging
If you were hoping for a rather immediate and sudden turnaround for Florida on offense, the start to Monday's practice probably wasn't all that reassuring.

The offense was out of sync completely in the fastball 11-on-11 portion of practice.

The second- and third-string units led off the session simultaneously, and it took just one play for things to turn south. Working with the backups, tight end Moral Stephens dropped a simple out route from Feleipe Franks.

Moments later, Jordan Smith manhandled the third-team offensive line for an easy sack on Luke Del Rio. Luke Ancrum and CeCe Jefferson followed that up with a routine sack on Franks.

Finally, Feleipe Franks tried to force in a throw to Dre Massey that never had a chance. Walk-on linebacker Cristian Garcia should have picked it off, but it bounced off his chest and narrowly fell incomplete between two defenders.

Malik Zaire, working with the first-team offense for the first time in any of the open sessions the media has seen, didn't fare much better.

Jordan Scarlett was stoned at the line of scrimmage on the first play for very little gain. Then Zaire and receiver Joshua Hammond were on the wrong page on a deep route. Zaire threw a corner and Hammond appeared to be running a fly, never getting his head around at all to see the ball.

On the last play of fastball, Zaire scrambled to his left and threw on the run to Brandon Powell. The pass went into the dirt a good five feet before it ever reached Powell.

Though the quarterbacks cleaned things up throwing the routes-on-air drill, the start of Monday's practice made it clear there's still plenty of work to be done on offense. Communication and execution still need major improvement."

giphy.gif
Click to expand...

And? So I'm guessing you think the team needs to look like Brady's Patriots on the first full practice of the year. This report was from the very first full practice of the year and I'm assuming you do realize the media gets to see about 10 minutes of practice daily before they are booted out, right? I'll take Mac's comments over some salty newspaper hack who likes to show his ass when he doesn't get to watch the entire practice. Mac admitted the team was a little sloppy at first, but then improved throughout.
 
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