Coach Butch Jones Appreciation thread

[05_never_again]

I appreciate the fact that Jones took over after Derek Fooley wrecked our program and has loaded up our roster, ended the Florida streak, has spanked Georgia's little bottom, and has us relevant again.

Lane Kiffin leaving is what wrecked the program, not Dooley. The car was already totaled with Dooley took over.

Dooley was a hopeless head coach but actually left the program in better shape than he found it. If he were handed a good program he'd destroy it, but he was handed a wrecked program and actually improved it somewhat around the edges. Dooley actually did help lay a foundation for a competent recruiter (Butch) to come in and starting building a deep roster again simply because he provided stability in the program for a period of time.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Lane Kiffin leaving is what wrecked the program, not Dooley. The car was already totaled with Dooley took over.

Dooley was a hopeless head coach but actually left the program in better shape than he found it. If he were handed a good program he'd destroy it, but he was handed a wrecked program and actually improved it somewhat around the edges. Dooley actually did help lay a foundation for a competent recruiter (Butch) to come in and starting building a deep roster again simply because he provided stability in the program for a period of time.

I dare you to start a Coach Derek Dooley Appreciation thread.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Lane Kiffin leaving is what wrecked the program, not Dooley. The car was already totaled with Dooley took over.

Dooley was a hopeless head coach but actually left the program in better shape than he found it. If he were handed a good program he'd destroy it, but he was handed a wrecked program and actually improved it somewhat around the edges. Dooley actually did help lay a foundation for a competent recruiter (Butch) to come in and starting building a deep roster again simply because he provided stability in the program for a period of time.

Man, that's totally not true. Dooley single-handedly destroyed our program's relationships with high school coaches all across Tennessee and surrounding states, he alienated former Vol players and coaching staff, he mocked our own players with the press, denigrating them for his own amusement, he alienated boosters, the list of people he pissed off with his imperious leadership style is all but endless....

I mean, Kiffin was a train wreck of NCAA proportions diverted, because he left so quickly that most of the damage he would've caused didn't have time to take root ... but Dooley took what was there and drove it right down into the ground.

 

[05_never_again]

I dare you to start a Coach Derek Dooley Appreciation thread.

No way. He has to be the most in-over-his-head coach in the SEC in the last 50 years. There isn't much to appreciate him for, other than the fact that he didn't quit after a year or two. The fact that he stuck around for 3 years and didn't quit or leave was his greatest asset.

That sounds hilarious, and it is, but I mean it absolutely seriously too.

 

[butchna]

That distinction was never implied with "no one". From the sense he bailed UT out.

I'm hard put to remember another mid-major coach at that time who was a better get. And what he's accomplished with that mess he inherited has been impressive. Next step and yeah yeah yeah...even if he ends up being replaced, it was a successful hire.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

No way. He has to be the most in-over-his-head coach in the SEC in the last 50 years. There isn't much to appreciate him for, other than the fact that he didn't quit after a year or two. The fact that he stuck around for 3 years and didn't quit or leave was his greatest asset.

That sounds hilarious, and it is, but I mean it absolutely seriously too.

I appreciate some of Derek's epic press conferences and images that he left for us. The highway patrolman pushing his wheel chair. The sideline stool. Shower discipline. Where's Rommel? The orange dog.

 

[BeecherVol]

The guy we hired has built this program up to the level where some homeruns might answer a phone call...

Agree with this.

Brings up another interesting discussion.

 

[BeecherVol]

I'm hard put to remember another mid-major coach at that time who was a better get. And what he's accomplished with that mess he inherited has been impressive. Next step and yeah yeah yeah...even if he ends up being replaced, it was a successful hire.

"Better" was never implied in anyway.

"No one" doesn't account for that.

 

[butchna]

"Better" was never implied in anyway.

"No one" doesn't account for that.

Doesn't sound like a real important battle that you're fighting there.

 

[BeecherVol]

Doesn't sound like a real important battle that you're fighting there.

Just the silliness that Jones humbled himself to lowly UT when no one else would take the job. Instead staying at his dream job in Cincy or the new one in Colorado.

You could be right tho. Given such, a lot of high post counts would take a hit on this site.

 

[butchna]

Just the silliness that Jones humbled himself to lowly UT when no one else would take the job. Instead staying at his dream job in Cincy or the new one in Colorado.

You could be right tho. Given such, a lot of high post counts would take a hit on this site.

Not saying give up, cowboy! Can't have people out there taking their narrative too far! :aggressive:

 

[BeecherVol]

Not saying give up, cowboy! Can't have people out there taking their narrative too far! :aggressive:

The silver knight appears. Lol

 

[05_never_again]

Man, that's totally not true. Dooley single-handedly destroyed our program's relationships with high school coaches all across Tennessee and surrounding states, he alienated former Vol players and coaching staff, he mocked our own players with the press, denigrating them for his own amusement, he alienated boosters, the list of people he pissed off with his imperious leadership style is all but endless....

I mean, Kiffin was a train wreck of NCAA proportions diverted, because he left so quickly that most of the damage he would've caused didn't have time to take root ... but Dooley took what was there and drove it right down into the ground.

If he "single-handedly destroyed them" then how did Butch bring them back so quickly? Dooley did not do any damage that was so destructive we're still feeling the ramifications today. Dooley was simply a poor recruiter, one of his many faults.

You are looking at just the tangible penalties that came as the result of Kiffin. Kiffin was so destructive not just because of specific things he did during his one year but simply because of the fact that he left. His departure gave Tennessee the image (and it was a correct image) of a program with no direction, no leadership, and was out of control with no clarity about the future. It scared any halfway decent coach away, which is why we ended up with Dooley to begin with.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

If he "single-handedly destroyed them" then how did Butch bring them back so quickly?

Butch didn't "bring us [us, not them...us] back so quickly." Remember, Butch's first season, we went 5-7. His second season, we only went 7-6. It took three full years for Butch to get us back to winning football. Three years of really hard work to repair the relationships that Dooley broke.

At the same time, Butch had to reestablish a roster with enough talent to compete. Remember, we went two years, TWO years, without a single NFL draft pick. That was in '15 and '16 ... those were the senior and redshirt junior classes Dooley recruited in '11 and '12, we're talking drafts that took place 6-7 years after Lane's single season. You can't blame any of this on Kiffin, it's all part of Dooley's mess.

I cordially dislike everything about Lane Kiffin, the man has no redeeming virtues and would have hurt our program badly if he'd stayed longer, but you're laying a lot of damage at his feet that was caused by Derek Dooley.

 

[BeecherVol]

Butch didn't "bring us back so quickly." Remember, Butch's first season, we went 5-7. His second season, we only went 7-6. It took three full years for Butch to get us back to winning football. Three years of really hard work to repair the relationships that Dooley broke, then reestablish a roster with enough talent to compete.

I cordially dislike everything about Lane Kiffin, the man has no redeeming virtures, but you're laying a lot of damage at his feet that was caused by Derek Dooley.

I think he meant more along the lines of recruiting and not necessarily what his record was the first couple of years with Dooley's roster.

Could be wrong tho.

I know we have had this discussion before about Dooley specifically with recruiting.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I think he meant more along the lines of recruiting and not necessarily what his record was the first couple of years with Dooley's roster.

Yeah, could be that's what he meant. Doesn't matter though, all the fingers still point at Dooley. Kiffin was simply too far removed at that point, with too little impact (thank goodness) in his brief stint.

 

[05_never_again]

Butch didn't "bring us [us, not them...us] back so quickly." Remember, Butch's first season, we went 5-7. His second season, we only went 7-6.

I meant specifically with recruiting (should have specified that). Dooley put together 3 recruiting classes in the 20-25th range if I remember correctly.

Butch came in and hauled a top 10 class within 2 years, then hauled a top 5 in his third.

My point with bringing that up is that I think it is hyperbole to say that Dooley "destroyed" Tennessee recruiting. Clearly the relationships with high school coaches and the University were still there with Butch came along; it's just that Butch chose to actually take advantage of them in contrast to Dooley, who was just an idiot.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I meant specifically with recruiting (should have specified that). Dooley put together 3 recruiting classes in the 20-25th range if I remember correctly.

Butch came in and hauled a top 10 class within 2 years, then hauled a top 5 in his third.

My point with bringing that up is that I think it is hyperbole to say that Dooley "destroyed" Tennessee recruiting. Clearly the relationships with high school coaches and the University were still there with Butch came along; it's just that Butch chose to actually take advantage of them in contrast to Dooley, who was just an idiot.

I don't think they were "there" when Butch arrived. I think he very hastily assembled what he could in his first signing class (which signed a handful of weeks after he arrived), and then he went on the road repairing relationships.

Now, I'm not saying he didn't have the huge advantage of Not Being Dooley. That was precisely his #1 advantage. He could walk up to any high school coach and say, "hey, I'm glad to meet you, I understand my predecessor really screwed the pooch around here, I'm here to make up for that."

Coaches, many of whom have loved Tennessee football just like you and me most of their lives, would be thrilled to hear that, and would immediately give Butch a chance to prove it.

So yeah, as long as Butch is a good guy, honest and forthright with them, in most cases it's probably not going to be hard to set things right again. But he's gotta go out there, town to town and school to school, to do it. So it's still a lot of leg work, a lot of long hours.

So you can't look at Butch's 2nd signing class, and say "Ah-hah! A top 5 class, things must've been better under Dooley than many say!" It just doesn't work that way.

No, all that was on Dooley. Kiffin was loong, looong gone from the recruiting equation by the time Butch had to start picking up pieces.

 

[BeecherVol]

I meant specifically with recruiting (should have specified that). Dooley put together 3 recruiting classes in the 20-25th range if I remember correctly.

Butch came in and hauled a top 10 class within 2 years, then hauled a top 5 in his third.

My point with bringing that up is that I think it is hyperbole to say that Dooley "destroyed" Tennessee recruiting. Clearly the relationships with high school coaches and the University were still there with Butch came along; it's just that Butch chose to actually take advantage of them in contrast to Dooley, who was just an idiot.

The three years previous to Jones first class in 13' were 17, 13, 9 (Rivals).

Jones first 2 legit classes were 5 and 5, after the clean up class in 13' after he was hired.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

The three years previous to Jones first class in 13' were 17, 13, 9 (Rivals).

Jones first 2 legit classes were 5 and 5, after the clean up class in 13' after he was hired.

And by 17, 13, 9, I think you mean 9 (in 2010), 13 (2011), and 17 (2012). A downward trend under Dooley. Right?

 

[Iam4utalways]

Butch's sales pitch was to put Tn "back on the map".

120 put us on the map again.

121 has the opportunity to keep us there.

Go Vols!

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Butch's sales pitch was to put Tn "back on the map".

120 put us on the map again.

121 has the opportunity to keep us there.

Go Vols!

Actually, I'd say Team 119 was the one that brought Tennessee football back to competitiveness. We beat Georgia that year, and ended the season 9-4. Team 120 was a bit of a plateau from 119, with some pluses (Bristol, Florida) and some setbacks (USCe, Vandy).

So yeah, think you gotta point at 119 as the "we're back in the hunt" squad. Here's hoping 121 is the "we're back winning championships" gang.

Go Vols!

 

[BeecherVol]

I don't think they were "there" when Butch arrived. I think he very hastily assembled what he could in his first signing class (which signed a handful of weeks after he arrived), and then he went on the road repairing relationships.

Now, I'm not saying he didn't have the huge advantage of Not Being Dooley. That was precisely his #1 advantage. He could walk up to any high school coach and say, "hey, I'm glad to meet you, I understand my predecessor really screwed the pooch around here, I'm here to make up for that."

Coaches, many of whom have loved Tennessee football just like you and me most of their lives, would be thrilled to hear that, and would immediately give Butch a chance to prove it.

So yeah, as long as Butch is a good guy, honest and forthright with them, in most cases it's probably not going to be hard to set things right again. But he's gotta go out there, town to town and school to school, to do it. So it's still a lot of leg work, a lot of long hours.

So you can't look at Butch's 2nd signing class, and say "Ah-hah! A top 5 class, things must've been better under Dooley than many say!" It just doesn't work that way.

No, all that was on Dooley. Kiffin was loong, looong gone from the recruiting equation by the time Butch had to start picking up pieces.

Sure you can. When Dooley left his relationships or lack thereof with coaches left with him. As you explained above Jones came in with a different approach and that totally changed with his first 2 legitimate classes 14' and 15' being the evidence.
You can admit Dooley was terrible but also feel that the level in which some would like to apply it to recruiting was not the level it actually was. And that is in regards to what Jones had to fix when he got here. Jones really didn't have to "fix it" he just had to give the effort that good recruiters across the country do. And to Jones credit he did that. He wasn't Dooley.

 

[BeecherVol]

And by 17, 13, 9, I think you mean 9 (in 2010), 13 (2011), and 17 (2012). A downward trend under Dooley. Right?

Yes. Not sure why that matters to the point that he wasn't in the 20's? I went descending from the first class Jones signed.
Are we in downward trend since 15'?

 

[05_never_again]

Sure you can. When Dooley left his relationships or lack thereof with coaches left with him. As you explained above Jones came in with a different approach and that totally changed with his first 2 legitimate classes 14' and 15' being the evidence.
You can admit Dooley was terrible but also feel that the level in which some would like to apply it to recruiting was not the level it actually was. And that is in regards to what Jones had to fix when he got here. Jones really didn't have to "fix it" he just had to give the effort that good recruiters across the country do. And to Jones credit he did that. He wasn't Dooley.

Yeah - totally agree. These high school coaches might have been turned off by Dooley personally, but the positive feelings they had about the University were still there.

Dooley was incompetent and in over his head in many ways, recruiting just being one of them. It sounds like Butch came in, smoothed things over with some coaches who still liked the program anyway, and simply began recruiting competently like any coach worth his salt would.

Again, Dooley was a doofus but he did not leave a mark on the program that remained after he was gone. The person who did that was Kiffin, and remember Kiffin's departure directly led to us getting Dooley in the first place. Kiffin leaving after a year is what was truly damaging to the program and set it back 3-5 years.

I find that to be a really interesting dynamic with our fanbase. "Kiffin" is the most hated word in a Tennessee fan's vocabulary, but I bet if you ask what person set the football program the most, a majority would say Dooley. And I can't disagree more. The only two reasonable answers to that question are Kiffin and Mike Hamilton.