Barnett already impressing in Philly

#26
#26
dbarker said:
Agreed, two of the Best QBs right now are 5'11 or smaller Brees and Wilson....Delanie Walker is consistently in the pro bowl and he is only 6 ft. Sproles is tiny but productive. But everyone wants the "prototype"....PreviousResults matter little to alot of them, and I find that funny....
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Brees and Wilson are the exception, not the rule.
 
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#28
#28
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I've always said Barnett would be a solid 10 year starter. He just won't be as good as Garrett. Physically Barnett has maxed out his talent. Garrett isn't even close to his peak. That is why he went 1st overall and why he will be a future hall of famer.
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Wouldn't Garrett need to make it through 4 pre-season games and a 16+ game regular season at least once before we make him a bronze bust?
 
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#29
#29
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I've always said Barnett would be a solid 10 year starter. He just won't be as good as Garrett. Physically Barnett has maxed out his talent. Garrett isn't even close to his peak. That is why he went 1st overall and why he will be a future hall of famer.
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We'll see.
 
#30
#30
Burger said:
Brees and Wilson are the exception, not the rule.
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I think his post may be the proud of the opposite of what he is trying to say. When you pull out a tiny list of odd sized players then the hundreds of prototypical sized ones not in the last kinda prove the point.
 
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#31
#31
I'm betting Barnett has the better pro career because of his demonstrated production against the highest level of college competition whereas Garrett played the same caliber of competition and built his stats against weaker teams. But, Garrett has unquestionably better measurables. The NFL draft, just like other or drafts, is all about potential. The reality is that Garrett's truly astounding measurables make him a once in a decade athletic freak with the highest potential. Whether he reaches his highest potential is an open question and his production to date makes that somewhat questionable. I think Barnett is going to be a very good pro because no one will outwork him and he's an above average athlete even by NFL standards. His production matched with above average athleticism and work ethic make me think he has a very high floor and a high ceiling. In a lot of ways, this reminds me of the Taylor Mays versus Eric Berry debate. Mays, of course, went second round and his NFL performance cemented the case that being an athletic freak alone does not result in an elite football player. Berry, of course, was an exceptional athlete but he wasn't Mays' size and still got drafted in the top 10. We all know that Berry has turned into a much better NFL player, just as he was a college player, than Mays. This is a somewhat rambling way of saying picking Garrett makes sense because of what he could become if he puts it all together but the smart money is on Barnett being the better pro. Still, the possibility of Garrett putting it all together made him the first pick because of the potential for a simply peerless DE.
 
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#32
#32
If it's battle with the chips down and money on the line, I would choose DB on my side every time. Why? Let's just say hupernikao recognizes hupernikao.
 
#33
#33
By the way, JJ Watt is the perfect argument for why taking Garrett #1 was the right call. His college production against lesser Big Ten competition was so-so but he's the best in the league and he got drafted highly because of his measurables.
 
#34
#34
WhatInVolnation said:
By the way, JJ Watt is the perfect argument for why taking Garrett #1 was the right call. His college production against lesser Big Ten competition was so-so but he's the best in the league and he got drafted highly because of his measurables.
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100% agree, people knocking the Garrett pick are letting their homerism blind them. Barnett's gonna perform no matter what, but will he ever have say a 15+ sack season? It's hard to tell but you know he's at least gonna get consistent pressure on the QB and not be a liability in run support game in and game out. Garrett has much more athletic potential, and while that could mean he ends up like a Khalil Mack (who played against weaker competition and only had one double digit sack season in college) or J.J. Watt, it could also mean that he ends up fizzing out like an Aaron Curry.

There's no way to tell, but drafting a pass rusher is just like drafting a QB because they are two of the most important positions in football now. If you have a chance, you draft the guy with the potential that Garrett has you do it. If he develops the attention to detail that Barnett has and maintains a high level of work ethic then he could potentially be a monster, the same way that if RG3 learned to avoid hits and improved his dedication to studying the game he would still be playing at a high level in the NFL.
 
#35
#35
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I've always said Barnett would be a solid 10 year starter. He just won't be as good as Garrett. Physically Barnett has maxed out his talent. Garrett isn't even close to his peak. That is why he went 1st overall and why he will be a future hall of famer.
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Yet you still babble about a 4th round quarterback being the greatest pick of the greatest draft in history. Just stfu and go troll a Steeler board.
 
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#36
#36
BearCat204 said:
Yet you still babble about a 4th round quarterback being the greatest pick of the greatest draft in history. Just stfu and go troll a Steeler board.
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Pretty much has a 6th rounder set up with an apartment right outside Canton also. :wink2:
 
#37
#37
I'm in the camp that says the Browns and the Eagles both made great choices. Garrett has the measurables, so the pick made sense. The NFL draft is all about a player's skill set translating to the league, and his does. Barnett has that dog mentality, work ethic, killer motor, great game film, and a solid repertoire of pass rushing moves. He was a no brainer. When it's all said and done, I think Barnett will be the better choice, but that doesn't mean Garrett is garbage.
 
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#38
#38
WhatInVolnation said:
I'm betting Barnett has the better pro career because of his demonstrated production against the highest level of college competition whereas Garrett played the same caliber of competition and built his stats against weaker teams.
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Success in college means nothing when it comes to the pros. Hell, every QB under Spurrier at UF had "production" against the highest level of competition....as did Tim Tebow, Johnny Manziel, JaMarcus Russell, etc. I know those are offensive players vs. D players but the point stands.

I hope DB balls out in the pros. But whatever he did in his 3 years at UT means nothing regarding how good of a pro he will be.
 
#39
#39
Boca Vol said:
Success in college means nothing when it comes to the pros. Hell, every QB under Spurrier at UF had "production" against the highest level of competition....as did Tim Tebow, Johnny Manziel, LaMarcus Russell, etc. I know those are offensive players vs. D players but the point stands.

I hope DB balls out in the pros. But whatever he did in his 3 years at UT means nothing regarding how good of a pro he will be.
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D4H got one. :no:
 
#44
#44
Boca Vol said:
No, they're just 2 different games. Look at how many players have success that went to a small school or were just an OK player in college.
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Ok...name a few who were mediocre in college and BETTER in the pros. I'll give you one, Terrell Davis. And we're not talking "success"...we're talking Pro Bowl,All-Pro and HOF stuff. In the MODERN era, the standouts generally perform highly at whatever level they land a scholarship. Terrell Owens was a beast at UTC...Khalil Mack at Buffalo...Antonio Brown at CMU etc. D4H keeps throwing out Bruce Smith and Randall Cunningham comparisons to his pets, but Bruce was all everything at Virginia Tech (including STATS!) and Randall was phenomenal at UNLV. If Garrett only had 12 career sacks before this draft, does he get picked #1 overall? You don't generally just turn on the engine after you turn pro...needs to have been revving since high school.
 
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#45
#45
butchna said:
Ok...name a few who were mediocre in college and BETTER in the pros. I'll give you one, Terrell Davis. And we're not talking "success"...we're talking Pro Bowl,All-Pro and HOF stuff. In the MODERN era, the standouts generally perform highly at whatever level they land a scholarship. Terrell Owens was a beast at UTC...Khalil Mack at Buffalo...Antonio Brown at CMU etc. D4H keeps throwing out Bruce Smith and Randall Cunningham comparisons to his pets, but Bruce was all everything at Virginia Tech (including STATS!) and Randall was phenomenal at UNLV. If Garrett only had 12 career sacks before this draft, does he get picked #1 overall? You don't generally just turn on the engine after you turn pro...needs to have been revving since high school.
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Man, they're all over the place. Had you ever heard of:

Cameron Wake
Oliver Vernon
Chris Harris Jr.
Geno Atkins
Lorenzo Alexander
Malcolm Butler
Zach Orr
Damon Harrison

All were All-PRO, not Pro-Bowl from last season. And this is just from last season. Several of these guys were undrafted.
 
#46
#46
Boca Vol said:
Man, they're all over the place. Had you ever heard of:

Cameron Wake
Oliver Vernon
Chris Harris Jr.
Geno Atkins
Lorenzo Alexander
Malcolm Butler
Zach Orr
Damon Harrison

All were All-PRO, not Pro-Bowl from last season. And this is just from last season. Several of these guys were undrafted.
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And of those, how many didn't produce noteworthy stats in college? Cameron Wake was misused at Penn State (linebacker) and had to make his bones in the CFL. If he doesn't PERFORM in Canada, who signs him? I've used Malcolm Butler quite a bit in discussions on how a player who worked hard in college can outperform Shorts All-Americans at the top level. And aren't you a 3 star snob? This is basically the same argument. Conferring future greatness based on high school performance should be abhorrent to your philosophy. So why is COLLEGE performance a nonfactor at the ultimate next level?
 
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#47
#47
UT Hill Man said:
I've always thought there's too much emphasis on "measurable's" and not enough on "production" on every level of scouting.

Barnett flat out got it done in high school and college, and he will continue to be productive in the NFL.
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Fav vol of all time. Hated to see him go, but I understand this thought process on the matter. Still remember watching him play in tv in high school. HATE philly, but I will be rooting for him!
 
#48
#48
Barnett just seems hungrier than Garrett to me. Garrett is a beast and can be dominant when he wants but Barnett just brings it nonstop and seems to rise to the occasion. Can't wait to watch him on Sundays.
 
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#49
#49
WhatInVolnation said:
I'm betting Barnett has the better pro career because of his demonstrated production against the highest level of college competition whereas Garrett played the same caliber of competition and built his stats against weaker teams. But, Garrett has unquestionably better measurables. The NFL draft, just like other or drafts, is all about potential. The reality is that Garrett's truly astounding measurables make him a once in a decade athletic freak with the highest potential. Whether he reaches his highest potential is an open question and his production to date makes that somewhat questionable. I think Barnett is going to be a very good pro because no one will outwork him and he's an above average athlete even by NFL standards. His production matched with above average athleticism and work ethic make me think he has a very high floor and a high ceiling. In a lot of ways, this reminds me of the Taylor Mays versus Eric Berry debate. Mays, of course, went second round and his NFL performance cemented the case that being an athletic freak alone does not result in an elite football player. Berry, of course, was an exceptional athlete but he wasn't Mays' size and still got drafted in the top 10. We all know that Berry has turned into a much better NFL player, just as he was a college player, than Mays. This is a somewhat rambling way of saying picking Garrett makes sense because of what he could become if he puts it all together but the smart money is on Barnett being the better pro. Still, the possibility of Garrett putting it all together made him the first pick because of the potential for a simply peerless DE.
Click to expand...

Not to nit-pick, but I always compared Eric Berry's career to Earl Thomas, who was drafted a couple of picks after Berry. In fact, right now, I think Berry and Thomas are the best 2 safeties in the NFL. They both have been multiple time Pro Bowlers. The only difference, imo, is Berry got sick and won the Comeback Player of the Year and Thomas won a Super Bowl. Imo, Thomas's team is better but Berry is the better individual player. Thomas is sliding (injuries are the main reason), imo and Berry continues to get better. Mays can't compare to either one
 
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#50
#50
butchna said:
And of those, how many didn't produce noteworthy stats in college? Cameron Wake was misused at Penn State (linebacker) and had to make his bones in the CFL. If he doesn't PERFORM in Canada, who signs him? I've used Malcolm Butler quite a bit in discussions on how a player who worked hard in college can outperform Shorts All-Americans at the top level. And aren't you a 3 star snob? This is basically the same argument. Conferring future greatness based on high school performance should be abhorrent to your philosophy. So why is COLLEGE performance a nonfactor at the ultimate next level?
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Is this post serious? It's like watching a dog chase its tail.

Regarding Cameron Wake you said he was misused in college and then you ask why COLLEGE performance is a non-factor at the ultimate next level?

As far as the 3 star comment, I have no idea. You asked for examples and I gave you several who were lower draft picks or not drafted at all. If a player went undrafted and went on to become All-pro I'd say that speaks for itself as to their college success translating to the NFL. :good!:
 
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