Per Hubbs, "lack of depth biggest concern for this team"

[TN Outlaw]

I wonder how our unproven/proven depth compares to the rest of the SECe? Particularly the numbers of high level guys come fall camp.

Gotta win the East before we take any other steps foward.

 

[gray0306]

This Hubbs guy is just trying to create something out of nothing....FAKE news. Football is Football and yea you'll get dinged up. I don't see depth issues, not like when Butch first arrived.

 

[jakez4ut]

This Hubbs guy is just trying to create something out of nothing....FAKE news. Football is Football and yea you'll get dinged up. I don't see depth issues, not like when Butch first arrived.

that's not what's being discussed, and really not the point. there aren't quality depth issues if your goal is to be better than 2010-2012.

but is that the goal?

 

[Nationdom]

Read about 5 or 6 pages but not everything. The issue is recruiting and/or development. The problem associated with lack of depth is the quality of the depth. They can put a competitive first 22 on the field but when they have to go to a backup player there is a huge fall off in the quality of play.

You saw this last year with JRM and Sutton. They shuffled different players out there trying to find someone that could duplicate the numbers of JRM and Sutton. They could not do so.

This season the same issues will be present. front line player can't play and the dropoff in play will be significant. The dropoff in production from the big 6 positions they lost players will be telling in the first month of the season anyway, perhaps all season.

The issue is not attrition, injuries or graduation. The issue is quality of recruiting and then the quality of development. That is the root cause to the "lack of depth" comment.

Now off to the golf course

I pray Currie can get it right in December

 

[jakez4ut]

I wonder how our unproven/proven depth compares to the rest of the SECe? Particularly the numbers of high level guys come fall camp.

Gotta win the East before we take any other steps foward.

i think i know what you're trying to say.....

i think FL and TN are in similar spots. both lost a lot of production defensively, arguably, FL lost a lot more. both are breaking in new qb's, and have youth at RB. both probably think they have options at WR. both probably think the O line should finally be a strength.

both have ?'s in the secondary and at LB, for different reasons.

usce and ga and ky return a lot of production. you can debate how good that production may or may not be. but if you're going to make a case for any of those teams, especially a team like KY or USCe, you do it because they are returning a lot, and the big 3 have ?'s at key spots. GA on offense really should be pretty darn good, they might not be great on defense again though. can you win a shoot out against GA? that's the question you may need to answer if you're KY or USCe.

it still all depends on who gets the most right answers to their questions coming in. conventional wisdom says GA should probably be the favorite. you can make all sorts of arguments for/against other teams after that.

 

[johnrlansford]

I pray Currie can get it right in December

If you are expecting a coaching change, i am afraid you will be disappointed!

Butch is here through 2018, minimum if he makes a bowl this year! I don't see a change being made until atleast 2019 Season!

Too many factors working in Butch's favor and not as many working against him from a Adminstrative Standpoint. The Administration isn't any where near as pissed with Butch as many fans are. They tend to think from a Business prosepctive and not with their emotions!

 

[Volsfaninva917]

If you are expecting a coaching change, i am afraid you will be disappointed!

Butch is here through 2018, minimum if he makes a bowl this year! I don't see a change being made until atleast 2019 Season!

Too many factors working in Butch's favor and not as many working against him from a Adminstrative Standpoint. The Administration isn't any where near as pissed with Butch as many fans are. They tend to think from a Business prosepctive and not with their emotions!

New AD, whos known to walk around with a chip on his shoulder. Whos out to make a name for himself, whos head football coach after this year will only have 2 years remaining on his contract. Yeah Butch is free and clear, 6-6 and a Birmingham bowl birth will surely get him 2018.

 

[jakez4ut]

If you are expecting a coaching change, i am afraid you will be disappointed!

Butch is here through 2018, minimum if he makes a bowl this year! I don't see a change being made until atleast 2019 Season!

Too many factors working in Butch's favor and not as many working against him from a Adminstrative Standpoint. The Administration isn't any where near as pissed with Butch as many fans are. They tend to think from a Business prosepctive and not with their emotions!

while i agree with you...the only thing i would say is a wild card in this is if Currie does have a guy, or small group of guys, in mind that he'd take over butch, regardless of situation.

and we just don't know if that's the case or not.

if he does, and he thinks he can get him, or one of his guys, and there's any type of window to justify it....he might be inclined to pull the trigger. especially if he gets the money behind him to back it up.

 

[jakez4ut]

Doesn't matter if everyone is healthy. Two lackuster recruiting classes and attrition from the two before those has put us in a position where we just don't have the horses. The window is probably closed on the east until we get Jones' replacement in here.

while i don't think it's quite as dire as you've made it out to be here...i do agree. we really shouldn't have this many questions headed in to year 5.

i've said it several times, but this season feels like 2014/2015 all over again. you can see potential. but it's still potential. not enough proven.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

If you're talking about quality (of the 1st string, 2nd string, 3rd string, whatever), talk about quality.

If you're talking about depth, talk about depth.

Confusing the two is just...confusing.

Even a team loaded with 5-star backups, like Bama, has a drop in quality behind the first string. That's true for every team, and shouldn't surprise anyone that it's true for us as well. That still leaves plenty of room to discuss whether the drop in quality is more severe for the Vols than it should be. That's pretty much what this conversation is really about.

This isn't a "depth" conversation; it's a "quality" conversation. Unless he shows up and explains that he meant something entirely different, Hubbs used the wrong phrase.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

p.s. Here's how you know a college team truly has a "depth" problem: the coach announces open tryouts, and encourages anyone in the student body to come out. That's when depth is an issue. That's about the only time depth is clearly the issue.

 

[jakez4ut]

If you're talking about quality (of the 1st string, 2nd string, 3rd string, whatever), talk about quality.

If you're talking about depth, talk about depth.

Confusing the two is just...confusing.

Even a team loaded with 5-star backups, like Bama, has a drop in quality behind the first string. That's true for every team, and shouldn't surprise anyone that it's true for us as well.

This isn't a "depth" conversation; it's a "quality" conversation. Unless he shows up and explains that he meant something entirely different, Hubbs used the wrong phrase.

i think it's definitely being discussed that way here, at least for the most part. siap, it's not like we aren't going to have a full 85 scholarship roster, so no, it's definitely not about the actual #'s.

it's got to be about the quality of the #'s....:thumbsup:

 

[jakez4ut]

and good to see you back jp.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Thanks, Jake. I'm mostly lurking these days. Can't stand the strength of the negavols lately (though that is in fact mostly Butch's fault).

 

[sjt18]

Goddangit, guys, you're gonna have to stop comparing every iota of this program to Alabama.

So... Bama can field enough scholarship players to have a real spring game but no one else can? Every other coach in their 5th year has no depth at critical positions even after declaring for 4 years that he was "building depth"?

Butch is a better coach than Dooley... but the excuses for falling short are worse.

 

[jakez4ut]

Thanks, Jake. I'm mostly lurking these days. Can't stand the strength of the negavols lately (though that is in fact mostly Butch's fault).

lol: yeah. i'm in the "where do we go from here?" boat now. don't get the need to wring our hands on what's happened (i've gotten that all out of my system, i think). everyone's seen it, knows what it is. can't do anything about it right now.

 

[sjt18]

excuse or reality? truth be know, it's both.

just keep in mind many of the issues surrounding the attrition, injury, recruiting and development issues were supposedly addressed with all the changes on the staff this off season.

so either those will fix it, or they won't. but it at least wasn't lost on the staff that all was not well in that regard.

and i think if you had Butch in a room behind closed doors, he'd tell you we haven't done as well as we've needed to, hence the changes.

so we'll see.

How many times did UGA change out their staff before realizing that institutional issues fall in the lap of the HC?

Jones says he has and uses the veto power over scholarship offers. I believe he said that only he can call a recruit and offer them a scholarship. If guys are leaving because they can't compete for PT... why were they signed?

But really that excuse doesn't cut it. Why are guys leaving a program when that program often has depth issues at the position they play... like LB and DB?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

But really that excuse doesn't cut it. Why are guys leaving a program when that program often has depth issues at the position they play... like LB and DB?

The LB coach just said in an interview published in the Tennessean this week that he's really happy with our depth (and more coherent to this conversation, quality) at the position.

So...for now at least, neither "depth" nor "quality" seem to be issues for the Vols at LB. According to the position coach.

 

[sjt18]

Just because it's year 5 or year 10 or year 15 doesn't mean a coach will never have seasons where depth isn't quite up to snuff. Crap happens every offseason. Guys unexpectedly declare for the draft, other guys quit/get kicked off the team, and some recruits that looked like sure things just never pan out.

This staff could have certainly done a better job at filling holes on the roster, but it's tough to have bulletproof depth at every position unless you're recruiting like Bama, Clemson, Ohio State, etc.

At what point has Jones NOT had depth issues since taking over? And... how many years are reasonable before we can expect to have "depth" for at least a couple of years?

Believe me. I understand the impulse to excuse a coach or fight to "give him more time". But Jones has had time to prove he has "it". He hasn't. Maybe this is the year... or next year... or 2025... or 2050. But HE is the one who claimed for two years that he was building depth. He is the one who has not effectively built depth. Even if everyone was healthy... this would be a thin team at LB, CB, WR, DT, and RB. "Bad luck" simply doesn't account for that.

 

[jakez4ut]

How many times did UGA change out their staff before realizing that institutional issues fall in the lap of the HC?

Jones says he has and uses the veto power over scholarship offers. I believe he said that only he can call a recruit and offer them a scholarship. If guys are leaving because they can't compete for PT... why were they signed?

But really that excuse doesn't cut it. Why are guys leaving a program when that program often has depth issues at the position they play... like LB and DB?

or WR for that matter. you think Preston Williams wouldn't find a place to fit in this offense, this year?

i don't disagree with any of this. and they are legit reasons for doubt. i don't know about the phone call deal or not.

i'm only saying that he took steps to fix the issues. and either they get fixed, or they don't.

either way, it's on him.

and at some point, whether it be at the end of this season or next, there'll be an account taken....good or bad. if it's bad, then it'll just be a validation of all the concerns expressed the last two years, and if it's to the good, it'll be confirmation that he's taken the appropriate steps.

we'll see.

 

[sjt18]

The LB coach just said in an interview published in the Tennessean this week that he's really happy with our depth (and more coherent to this conversation, quality) at the position.

So...for now at least, neither "depth" nor "quality" seem to be issues for the Vols at LB. According to the position coach.

That's interesting and I hope he's being genuine and not just trying to pump his guys. But based on an earlier post that listed LB names... I'm not sure how you could fill out a 2 deep right now without using guys at multiple positions.


Edit: I found the article and read it. I counted 9 names. I'm pretty sure 3 were Fr. One guy is moving from DE to LB. And still... only McDowell and DKjr have proven themselves to be SEC caliber 2-deep LB's. I appreciate Jumper as much as anyone but he is physically overmatched by too many OL's and RB's in the SEC.

 

[jakez4ut]

At what point has Jones NOT had depth issues since taking over? And... how many years are reasonable before we can expect to have "depth" for at least a couple of years?

Believe me. I understand the impulse to excuse a coach or fight to "give him more time". But Jones has had time to prove he has "it". He hasn't. Maybe this is the year... or next year... or 2025... or 2050. But HE is the one who claimed for two years that he was building depth. He is the one who has not effectively built depth. Even if everyone was healthy... this would be a thin team at LB, CB, WR, DT, and RB. "Bad luck" simply doesn't account for that.

agreed.

 

[sjt18]

i'm only saying that he took steps to fix the issues. and either they get fixed, or they don't.

either way, it's on him.

and at some point, whether it be at the end of this season or next, there'll be an account taken....good or bad. if it's bad, then it'll just be a validation of all the concerns expressed the last two years, and if it's to the good, it'll be confirmation that he's taken the appropriate steps.

we'll see.

This season he'll again use the excuses of depth and inexperience if things go poorly. Maybe he'll even say that the clock should be reset making this "year zero"? I'm pretty certain he'll try to use the staff changes to buy 3 or 4 years... and unfortunately... there are too many willing to buy it. I WANT TO BE WRONG ABOUT THIS... but it IS his pattern of behavior.

Hopefully this staff will get it done and for once since coming to UT Jones will actually overachieve his talent.... but based on what we've seen... count me a skeptic.

 

[BeardedVol]

If you are expecting a coaching change, i am afraid you will be disappointed!

Butch is here through 2018, minimum if he makes a bowl this year!

Repeating that statement in every thread that has a critical post about CBJ, still won't make it true.

I think you'll still be arguing that Butch is 'safe', regardless of how the season plays out, right up until the Sunday morning that the University of Tennessee relieves Butch of his job. Because that is how Butch's career at UT ends. He's not going to get hired away by another program, when he leaves it will be because the university has fired him.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Isn't that why we pay coaches huge salaries????? Bama does not have this issue that I am aware of. Hold the coach accountable!

OMG! You are comparing Tennessee roster depth to Alabama?

Bwaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... puke..toss chunks ... bwa ha ha ha ha ha ...