USA Today: What to like about No. 18 Tennessee

[sjt18]

2017: (5-3 sec) (3-1 ooc) = 8-4

If UT loses to GT... I think 6-6 is a much more likely record than 8-4.

The wild card is the new coaches and Shoop in year 2. If this is finally an SEC quality staff then we could have a pleasant surprise.

If that isn't the case and all we get is a continuation of Jones' pattern... I think there will be 5 conference losses.

 

[05_never_again]

Butch is in a precarious position because of an underachievement last year. In order to make up for that, he needs to overachieve this year, and he has to do it with a squad that looks weaker on paper relative to last years'.

Tennessee can lose to the 4 best teams on the schedule (Florida, Georgia, Alabama, LSU) and win every other game, but that won't be satisfying to a lot of the fanbase. That would mean his best win this year would be over Georgia Tech or maybe South Carolina, depending on how those teams' seasons go. If he won the East last year, there would be far, far more tolerance for an 8-4 regular season in 2017.

Butch needs to beat at least one of Florida, Georgia, Alabama, or LSU, and then win all the other games if he wants little to no questions about his job security during or after the season.

He's also working under a new AD that did not hire him.

 

[sjt18]

OK who said that the SECE was the measuring stick for Butch Jones, The administration? I don't remember that...That about the Booster? I don't remember that either. You can set what you think is an expectation and I can set what i think is an expectation, but neither opinion matters in the grand scheme of things, because we don't hire or fire coaches.

Just another diversion from his failures.

Collectively, fans set expectations. Some have more influence than others... but fans like us DO make an impact.

The coaches expectations are to win National championships every year, but that isn't realistic since only one team wins the NC.

That's also not an excuse for whiffing on the SEC East with it well in reach and pitifully weak over the past two seasons. Your strawman is duly noted. You can go ahead and burn t.

Dooley isn't an excuse I am using it is the entire situation atound the athletic department. We are not a team that will compete for championships every year...we never have been!!! We will piece together a few good runs at championships and be in the conversation but never been the team everyone was gunning for outside of a season here and there!!!

If you aren't using Dooley... that seems to be the only out of bounds excuse you recognize.

If "never have been" is an acceptable excuse for "never expect it to be".... then you really shouldn't even expect more of those runs. It was high expectations that created those runs.

 

[KBVol]

Just because you ar ein high demand doesn't make you a successful hire.

Interms of the program 2016 wasn't a step backwards by any means, he maintained a winning record with 9 wins. Not meeting expectations doens't equal a step backwards.

Butch came to one of the worst situations that any coach could step into and has moved us forward. he has given no reason to doubt him, until we are moving backwards, and we aren't yet.

I think the staff salaries show the commitment that the university has for Butch Jones moving forward. The deciding year will be 2018, and winning the east is probably the target for 2018. He may win the east this year ans secure himself even longer.

You have to remember where were just a few short years ago to appreciate where we are now! Go Vols!

I am a realistic fan, not sure why I even come to Volnation with some of your unrealistic expectations and demands. Butch is my coach, until he isn't!!!

I will always support the coach Butch jones or someone else, I am a VOL fan, I will give my all for Tennessee everyday!!!

2018? Huh? Year 6? Why not just set the arbitrary year at, say, 2022?....I mean, really give Butch some rope. For crying out loud, I thought 2016, year 4, was THE year.

 

[05_never_again]

What's amazing is that Butch is actually the 3rd winningest coach in SEC play the last 3 years. Sure doesn't seem like it. Among the coaches who have been there at least 3 years:

Saban: 22-2
Mullen/Freeze: 13-11
Butch: 12-12
Malzahn/Sumlin: 11-13
Bielema: 10-14
Stoops: 8-16
Mason: 5-19

 

[05_never_again]

Soooooooo much mediocrity in terms of coaching in the SEC once you get past Saban.

It goes Saban, 5 guys all clustered around .500, to just really bad. The jury is still out on the others. McElwain has a good conference record after 2 seasons, but given the dump truckings Alabama has given him in the SECCGs they have appeared in and the blowout losses to Florida State and Michigan, you have to wonder how good of a coach he really is too.

 

[tomq_123]

This is a much more favorable schedule than years past, especially last year.

09/04/17 vs. Georgia Tech Atlanta, Ga.
09/09/17 vs. Indiana State Knoxville, Tenn.
09/16/17 at Florida * Gainesville, Fla.
09/23/17 vs. Massachusetts Knoxville, Tenn.
09/30/17 vs. Georgia * Knoxville, Tenn.
10/14/17 vs. South Carolina * Knoxville, Tenn.
10/21/17 at Alabama * Tuscaloosa, Ala.
10/28/17 at Kentucky * Lexington, Ky.
11/04/17 vs. Southern Miss Knoxville, Tenn.
11/11/17 at Missouri * Columbia, Mo.
11/18/17 vs. LSU * Knoxville, Tenn.
11/25/17 vs. Vanderbilt * Knoxville, Tenn. TBA

Bye week is after UGA and before USCe, Bama, Kentucky. Cupcake game between Florida and UGA. No 4 game stretches of SEC play without cupcake games to break them up. Last year we had Florida, UGA, A&M and Bama in a row. That's brutal for any team without the depth of Bama.

 

[BeardedVol]

OK who said that the SECE was the measuring stick for Butch Jones[/B],

Butch himself set the expectations as "every year the goal is to win championships", but it was the people on this forum and elsewhere that said he had to be given time to build the program back. The general consensus across the board, was that by 2016, Butch, having his recruits and system in place, should be able to show if he has what it takes to succeed in the SEC.

Note, succeeding in the SEC does not, nor will it ever mean just being "better than Dooley".

The coaches expectations are to win National championships every year, but that isn't realistic since only one team wins the NC.

No one...let me repeat that...no one...expected CBJ to compete for an NC in any year so far during his tenure, nor does anyone expect UT to challenge for an NC every year, and that is not why people doubt his coaching ability, and question the university for continuing to retain him.

I am simply saying that where we are now is 1000% better than where we were 5 years ago, and even if we are 8-4 next year we will be in a better spot than we were 5 years ago.

A coach can be better than Derek Dooley, but still not have the program succeeding on a level that is commensurate to both his pay, the resources afforded him by the athletic department for the amount of time he has been at the head of the program. Those two situations are not mutually exclusive.

Dabo Sweeney was almost ran out of Clemson after 4 years of mediocre play if it would have been up to the fans. He just won a NC in year 7(I think).

No. That's simply not true. You can find people that wanted him fired after the 2010 season (his only bad season so far at Clemson), but by 2012, his 4th season, he had won his division twice, and the ACC once. That's by year 4, and it was apparent to pretty much everyone at that point that he knew what he was doing.

You expect us to be something that we aren't...We have been competitive in the SECE the past 2 years but didn't win, "we are who they say we are!!!"

5-3 and 4-4 with zero division titles is not competitive in the SEC as a whole, or even the division, not in this world, or any world is that being competitive.

History just doesn't support your expectations!!!

Even if that were true, so you think that since historically UT doesn't compete in the SEC, that the program shouldn't going forward? Do you think Clemson cared whether or not "historically" they were a National Championship contender when they hired Dabo and told him to turn Clemson into a championship program?

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

I was underwhelmed with this past season, I won't deny that. I feel like many times we shot ourselves in the foot.

However, I wouldn't call the season a complete failure either. WE soundly beat Florida and pulled of the Hail Mary's of Hail Mary's to beat Georgia.

Those things are not insignificant accomplishments and I feel many in the fandom are ignoring those for the sake of being Negas

 

[bamawriter]

What's amazing is that Butch is actually the 3rd winningest coach in SEC play the last 3 years. Sure doesn't seem like it. Among the coaches who have been there at least 3 years:

Saban: 22-2
Mullen/Freeze: 13-11
Butch: 12-12
Malzahn/Sumlin: 11-13
Bielema: 10-14
Stoops: 8-16
Mason: 5-19

If Mullen and Freeze are tied for 2nd, that makes Jones 4th. And that also ignores the fact that McElwain has more SEC wins than Jones over the same period, even though he hasn't even been in the league 3 years.

 

[05_never_again]

If Mullen and Freeze are tied for 2nd, that makes Jones 4th. And that also ignores the fact that McElwain has more SEC wins than Jones over the same period, even though he hasn't even been in the league 3 years.

I understand that; I mean Kirby Smart has one less SEC win than Mason despite Mason being at Vandy three years. I wanted to only include coaches that have some sort of continuity with their school though.

 

[bamawriter]

I wanted to only include coaches that have some sort of continuity with their school though.

Continuity is pretty meaningless if the new kid on the block produces better results than everyone else.

 

[05_never_again]

Continuity is pretty meaningless if the new kid on the block produces better results than everyone else.

Well then if McElwain has a bunch of wins next year, he'll be right there underneath Saban in terms of SEC record. If they are around .500 or worse next year, then he's right there in the glut of mediocrity, despite having 2 pretty good initial seasons.

Wouldn't it have been a mistake to declare Muschamp a great SEC coach after tallying 10 conference wins during his first 2 years at Florida? Florida was a top 10 team his second year, something McElwain hasn't achieved yet despite having 13 conference wins in 2 years.

 

[bamawriter]

Wouldn't it have been a mistake to declare Muschamp a great SEC coach after tallying 10 conference wins during his first 2 years at Florida?

Of course it would, but I never said McElwain is a great SEC coach. I simply pointed out that he's accomplished more than his peers in less time.

 

[BeecherVol]

This is a much more favorable schedule than years past, especially last year.

09/04/17 vs. Georgia Tech Atlanta, Ga.
09/09/17 vs. Indiana State Knoxville, Tenn.
09/16/17 at Florida * Gainesville, Fla.
09/23/17 vs. Massachusetts Knoxville, Tenn.
09/30/17 vs. Georgia * Knoxville, Tenn.
10/14/17 vs. South Carolina * Knoxville, Tenn.
10/21/17 at Alabama * Tuscaloosa, Ala.
10/28/17 at Kentucky * Lexington, Ky.
11/04/17 vs. Southern Miss Knoxville, Tenn.
11/11/17 at Missouri * Columbia, Mo.
11/18/17 vs. LSU * Knoxville, Tenn.
11/25/17 vs. Vanderbilt * Knoxville, Tenn. TBA

Bye week is after UGA and before USCe, Bama, Kentucky. Cupcake game between Florida and UGA. No 4 game stretches of SEC play without cupcake games to break them up. Last year we had Florida, UGA, A&M and Bama in a row. That's brutal for any team without the depth of Bama.

Eh. The date changes help some. At the end of the day you re gonna play the same competition really. I think LSU makes the conference schedule tougher and the GT/VT swap is a slight positive.

We caught SC after a bye last year.

All in all, its not much different.

 

[sjt18]

I was underwhelmed with this past season, I won't deny that. I feel like many times we shot ourselves in the foot.

However, I wouldn't call the season a complete failure either. WE soundly beat Florida and pulled of the Hail Mary's of Hail Mary's to beat Georgia.

Those things are not insignificant accomplishments and I feel many in the fandom are ignoring those for the sake of being Negas

Insignificant? No. Impressive? No. UT should not have needed a miracle come back to beat UF or a Hail Mary to beat UGA. UT had more experienced talent than either team.

 

[tomq_123]

Eh. The date changes help some. At the end of the day you re gonna play the same competition really. I think LSU makes the conference schedule tougher and the GT/VT swap is a slight positive.

We caught SC after a bye last year.

All in all, its not much different.

Not to argue the point, but it looks a lot different to me. Last year we have Florida, UGA, A&M and Bama in a row. This year we have Florida, UMASS then UGA which is a nice break up. Then we have a Bye, USCe, Bama, Kentucky then a break with Southern Miss before we have Mizzou, LSU and Vandy. While we do have some 3 game SEC stretches we go get some breaks.

 

[05_never_again]

Not to argue the point, but it looks a lot different to me. Last year we have Florida, UGA, A&M and Bama in a row. This year we have Florida, UMASS then UGA which is a nice break up. Then we have a Bye, USCe, Bama, Kentucky then a break with Southern Miss before we have Mizzou, LSU and Vandy. While we do have some 3 game SEC stretches we go get some breaks.

It really doesn't change the fact that 4 conference games are eminently loseable, despite the lack of a "gauntlet" stretch like last year.

 

[HalfullVol]

It really doesn't change the fact that 4 conference games are eminently loseable, despite the lack of a "gauntlet" stretch like last year.

Preposterous !!!!!!

You sir are a NEGAVOL !!!!

















jk

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

Insignificant? No. Impressive? No. UT should not have needed a miracle come back to beat UF or a Hail Mary to beat UGA. UT had more experienced talent than either team.

Miracles only happen on the field when we MAKE them happen.

You are proving my point by waving off what we did accomplish in the season.

 

[sjt18]

Miracles only happen on the field when we MAKE them happen.

You are proving my point by waving off what we did accomplish in the season.

How does it make your point to demonstrate that games that should not have been in doubt... were?

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

How does it make your point to demonstrate that games that should not have been in doubt... were?

Except they were in doubt long before the season even started. Many analysts and people on this board doubted we would beat Florida or Georgia even before when everyone had high expectations.

In fact I recall one ESPN analyst with this bold prediction "Tennessee will win the SEC East but still lose to Florida"

So, were they tough games? Absolutely. But the odds weren't exactly for an easy win anyways, saying that they should have been high scoring is discounting our opponents.

The fact that we could recover from slow starts is a sign of overcoming adversity. And that we are able to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat like in Georgia also indicates that we weren't wiling to give up.

But hey, I'm sure you'll find some way to downplay it. That's all anyone on this board wants to do sometimes.

 

[Certifiedhands11]

Beat Bana and it would wonderful season

.

 

[jakez4ut]

You don't complain about HOW we beat GA and FL. You win, you take it.

The complaints are plentiful with how we lost ATM, USCe and Vandy.

 

[BeecherVol]

Not to argue the point, but it looks a lot different to me. Last year we have Florida, UGA, A&M and Bama in a row. This year we have Florida, UMASS then UGA which is a nice break up. Then we have a Bye, USCe, Bama, Kentucky then a break with Southern Miss before we have Mizzou, LSU and Vandy. While we do have some 3 game SEC stretches we go get some breaks.

I think it matters or helps some. Just not to the degree others do.