USA Today: What to like about No. 18 Tennessee

[Wildasamink16]

No way!

 

[volfan102455]

I have to say your wrong, Tennessee has as much tradition as Notre Dame, Ohio State and Michigan if you look at all time win records through out the years....
Go Vols

Actually it is true. It is not just about the wins.

 

[jakez4ut]

agreed, as i think about it now, was the wrong word.

i was trying to agree with your point, not the statement.

 

[Fatman Photos]

He will be here for another year unless there is a total meltdown. Even with that he may still be here.

 

[photovol]

I just hope we can beat South Carolina and Vandy this year.

Indeed, the problem.....can Butch Jones beat Will Muschamp or Derek Mason?
Consistently?

 

[jakez4ut]

Indeed, the problem.....can Butch Jones beat Will Muschamp or Derek Mason?
Consistently?

well, he's 2-1 vs. Mason and 0 fer against Muschamp.

 

[photovol]

Indeed, the problem.....can Butch Jones beat Will Muschamp or Derek Mason?
Consistently?

***If the answer is no, then Butch Jones is a gonner:ermm:

 

[OrebankVol]

 

[TN Outlaw]

If CBJ wins 9 games with all the key experienced talent he just lossed, a 1st yr starting QB, vs this schedule, he's earned another year imo.

With the buyout he will be here till next season regardless. If he intends on doing better than 9 wins he better do something way different than what he's done to this point.

Maybe the offseason hires will make the difference

 

[volfanecs]

I'd agree with that, but only if he's better than .500 in conference play. Another year at .500 or lower, and I don't see any reason to keep CBJ for a sixth season other than there are no viable candidates for the job.

Not having a viable candidate never stopped us before.

 

[johnrlansford]

You just can't fire a coach with the kind of turn around that Butch has done here. What respectable coach would take a job where you fire a guy for going 5-7 7-6, 9-4 and 9-4 with the 3 consecutive losing seasons prior to his tenure? If Butch finishes with a Bowl win in 2017 there is no way that they fire him. He is solid until after 2018 as bad as most of you don't want to believe that(regardless of a 4-4 Conference record). No high level coach in the country would touch us with a 10 foot pole if we fired him right now!!

 

[BeardedVol]

You just can't fire a coach with the kind of turn around that Butch has done here. What respectable coach would take a job where you fire a guy for going 5-7 7-6, 9-4 and 9-4 with the 3 consecutive losing seasons prior to his tenure? If Butch finishes with a Bowl win in 2017 there is no way that they fire him. He is solid until after 2018 as bad as most of you don't want to believe that(regardless of a 4-4 Conference record). No high level coach in the country would touch us with a 10 foot pole if we fired him right now!!

We could go to a bowl with a record of 6-6 (2-6 SEC). Getting to a bowl would not save CBJ if he ended the season with that record.

 

[TN Outlaw]

You just can't fire a coach with the kind of turn around that Butch has done here. What respectable coach would take a job where you fire a guy for going 5-7 7-6, 9-4 and 9-4 with the 3 consecutive losing seasons prior to his tenure? If Butch finishes with a Bowl win in 2017 there is no way that they fire him. He is solid until after 2018 as bad as most of you don't want to believe that(regardless of a 4-4 Conference record). No high level coach in the country would touch us with a 10 foot pole if we fired him right now!!

I doubt he would go anywhere after this season unless he had a losing record and even then with the cost of his buyout idk that he wouldn't still be given another year.

I do however think his fate will all be determined on this coming season wether its administered after the season or after next season.

No high level coach has touched us with a 10ft pole in nearly 10yrs anyway lol

I hope he succeeds tho

 

[jakez4ut]

We could go to a bowl with a record of 6-6 (2-6 SEC). Getting to a bowl would not save CBJ if he ended the season with that record.

you're implying that he needs saving, which really, truthfully, isn't the case.

and for this coming season, the w/l record just won't be the deciding factor, unless it's an epic meltdown, leaving no choice but to fire him. 6-6 at least presents those with the decision making ability to make a choice. and seeing how the AD hasn't even officially started yet, i doubt he's gonna want to fire the guy in December, if he doesn't have to. option 1 for 2017 is keep him, unless i can't. then take 2018 and see what happens.

 

[BeardedVol]

you're implying that he needs saving, which really, truthfully, isn't the case.

and for this coming season, the w/l record just won't be the deciding factor, unless it's an epic meltdown, leaving no choice but to fire him. 6-6 at least presents those with the decision making ability to make a choice. and seeing how the AD hasn't even officially started yet, i doubt he's gonna want to fire the guy in December, if he doesn't have to. option 1 for 2017 is keep him, unless i can't. then take 2018 and see what happens.

A 6-6 (2-6 SEC) record in 2017 would be under-performing the talent on the team, again, and he wouldn't just be judged on his 2017 record alone. Five years in with no division titles, and an overall conference record of 16-24. The 2018 recruiting class wouldn't survive that season, and in that scenario retaining him will do more harm than good in the long run.

 

[sjt18]

You just can't fire a coach with the kind of turn around that Butch has done here.

Turnaround? He has basically gotten to the level where Fulmer was when he was RIGHTLY fired for being 2nd tier. A "turnaround" would include a championship... a Sugar Bowl... at the very bare minimum winning the East in one of the last two years.

There has been an improvement over horrible. That's not exactly a "turnaround". The bar should be higher than Jones has achieved so far.

What respectable coach would take a job where you fire a guy for going 5-7 7-6, 9-4 and 9-4 with the 3 consecutive losing seasons prior to his tenure?

Richt was 39-9 in the 4 years prior to UGA finally figuring out that he wasn't going to do any better regardless of how great the homegrown talent was. He was fired. He was replaced by a guy that several high profile programs including UT had pursued. Coaches have a lot more understanding than you seem to think. MOST top coaches would LOVE to walk into a situation where they could have immediate success. ANY coach UT would want wouldn't hesitate a moment to take the job if Jones finished the season 7-5 and was fired due to his consistent underperformance of the roster talent.

If Butch finishes with a Bowl win in 2017 there is no way that they fire him. He is solid until after 2018 as bad as most of you don't want to believe that(regardless of a 4-4 Conference record). No high level coach in the country would touch us with a 10 foot pole if we fired him right now!!

That's false in the extreme... an answer looking for a question on your part because you want to justify "maybe next year".

There are A LOT of scenarios that could end in Jones being fired. If he wins 8 but is blown out by Bama again, finishes 4th or worse in the East, and loses to Vandy again... He's gone... as bad as you want to set the bar so low that he can't fail.

 

[KINGSVOL]

What if we went 10-3, losing to Vanderbilt , Kentucky and SC? While beating the crap out of ANOTHER big 10 team in a new years 6 game. Say OSU or Michigan?
Fire Butch?

 

[jakez4ut]

A 6-6 (2-6 SEC) record in 2017 would be under-performing the talent on the team, again, and he wouldn't just be judged on his 2017 record alone. Five years in with no division titles, and an overall conference record of 16-24. The 2018 recruiting class wouldn't survive that season, and in that scenario retaining him will do more harm than good in the long run.

no body expected division titles in year 1 or 2 for sure, and even as promising as 2015 looked, the vast majority still felt TN was a year away.

that it coulda/should/woulda happened is what it is, and he has to bear the burden of not beating FL in 2015. but to go back now and say it like he was expected to win the division in any of those 1st 3 years, is false. so saying "he hasn't won a division in 5 years" while it would be accurate, it's being presented like he SHOULD have won the division in any/all/some of those 5 years, which, again, isn't accurate.

no, it was 2016, the lone year where everyone put their eggs in the TN SEC E champs basket. and he didn't get it done.

newsflash, we aren't winning it in 2017 either. next best opportunity is 2018.

and haslam isn't going to want to pony up $10 million for Butch, and who knows how much more for the rest of the staff, and then come up with the cash necessary to hire "the next nick saban".

like i said, most are happy with the progress he's made, though they may tread a little lighter now seeing as how last year played out. that all said, there's a whole lot of reasons to keep Butch Jones thru 2018, if you absolutely don't have to get rid of him.

what YOU want, and reality, don't always jive.

and like i've said many, many times, i don't even like the guy. i would have fired him immediately after the vandy game this past season.

but it's not me, and when you take in to consideration where we are now and all of the factors associated....

Butch would have to make them fire him right now.

after 2018, different story.

 

[BeardedVol]

no body expected division titles in year 1 or 2 for sure, and even as promising as 2015 looked, the vast majority still felt TN was a year away.

that it coulda/should/woulda happened is what it is, and he has to bear the burden of not beating FL in 2015. but to go back now and say it like he was expected to win the division in any of those 1st 3 years, is false. so saying "he hasn't won a division in 5 years" while it would be accurate, it's being presented like he SHOULD have won the division in any/all/some of those 5 years, which, again, isn't accurate.

no, it was 2016, the lone year where everyone put their eggs in the TN SEC E champs basket. and he didn't get it done.

newsflash, we aren't winning it in 2017 either. next best opportunity is 2018.

and haslam isn't going to want to pony up $10 million for Butch, and who knows how much more for the rest of the staff, and then come up with the cash necessary to hire "the next nick saban".

like i said, most are happy with the progress he's made, though they may tread a little lighter now seeing as how last year played out. that all said, there's a whole lot of reasons to keep Butch Jones thru 2018, if you absolutely don't have to get rid of him.

what YOU want, and reality, don't always jive.

and like i've said many, many times, i don't even like the guy. i would have fired him immediately after the vandy game this past season.

but it's not me, and when you take in to consideration where we are now and all of the factors associated....

Butch would have to make them fire him right now.

after 2018, different story.

I know you want to pretend like the first two years of CBJ's time at Tennessee don't count, but that's not going to take them off the record books, no matter how much you want it to happen.

He got a pass for his poor performances the first year because of Derek Dooley, but he's burned up all of the grace that following one of the worst college football coaches in modern history has granted him; being better than Derek Dooley is not the performance standard for a football coach at Tennessee.

2016, no matter how you want to cut it, or what excuses you want to attach to the season, was a step backwards from already mediocre-at-best tenure.

If he were to go 6-6 (2-6 SEC) in 2017 his and the staff's buyout isn't going to matter. Half of the current staff would find jobs that would offset the cost of their buyouts, and the $10 million that is owed Butch can be stretched out over 5 years if his contract is anything like other coaches. And hey, if Currie makes a slap dunk hire, the money we generate from top tier bowls or CFB playoff appearances would pay off that buyout in no time with money leftover.

You talk about living in reality, but yet you think that a coach who is currently 14-18 in conference play after four seasons is still bullet proof if he goes 2-6 in his fifth season; not even Butch is that delusional.

 

[butchna]

Turnaround? He has basically gotten to the level where Fulmer was when he was RIGHTLY fired for being 2nd tier. A "turnaround" would include a championship... a Sugar Bowl... at the very bare minimum winning the East in one of the last two years.

There has been an improvement over horrible. That's not exactly a "turnaround". The bar should be higher than Jones has achieved so far.

Richt was 39-9 in the 4 years prior to UGA finally figuring out that he wasn't going to do any better regardless of how great the homegrown talent was. He was fired. He was replaced by a guy that several high profile programs including UT had pursued. Coaches have a lot more understanding than you seem to think. MOST top coaches would LOVE to walk into a situation where they could have immediate success. ANY coach UT would want wouldn't hesitate a moment to take the job if Jones finished the season 7-5 and was fired due to his consistent underperformance of the roster talent.


That's false in the extreme... an answer looking for a question on your part because you want to justify "maybe next year".

There are A LOT of scenarios that could end in Jones being fired. If he wins 8 but is blown out by Bama again, finishes 4th or worse in the East, and loses to Vandy again... He's gone... as bad as you want to set the bar so low that he can't fail.

You're goofy. :lol:

 

[jakez4ut]

I know you want to pretend like the first two years of CBJ's time at Tennessee don't count, but that's not going to take them off the record books, no matter how much you want it to happen.

that's not what i said, and you know it. relative to what was expected, 2016 is the only year he was expected to win the division. that's not debatable. but keep putting words in my mouth, that's the only way you can keep this up.

He got a pass for his poor performances the first year because of Derek Dooley, but he's burned up all of the grace that following one of the worst college football coaches in modern history has granted him; being better than Derek Dooley is not the performance standard for a football coach at Tennessee.

has absolutely nothing to do with anything i posted, but you come back to this a lot. we get it. being better than Dooley isn't enough. and i agree with that.

2016, no matter how you want to cut it, or what excuses you want to attach to the season, was a step backwards from already mediocre-at-best tenure.

did i say otherwise? not only are you a hard person to debate with, it's apparently hard to agree with you too.

If he were to go 6-6 (2-6 SEC) in 2017 his and the staff's buyout isn't going to matter. Half of the current staff would find jobs that would offset the cost of their buyouts, and the $10 million that is owed Butch can be stretched out over 5 years if his contract is anything like other coaches. And hey, if Currie makes a slap dunk hire, the money we generate from top tier bowls or CFB playoff appearances would pay off that buyout in no time with money leftover.

if you fire everyone, you pay the buyout. and you might have to pay a buyout if you hire away a coach and staff from another program, but hey, details, details.

You talk about living in reality, but yet you think that a coach who is currently 14-18 in conference play after four seasons is still bullet proof if he goes 2-6 in his fifth season; not even Butch is that delusional.

you've obviously not read enough of my posts.


and he's still not getting fired next year if he goes to a bowl.

 

[BeardedVol]

that's not what i said, and you know it. relative to what was expected, 2016 is the only year he was expected to win the division. that's not debatable. but keep putting words in my mouth, that's the only way you can keep this up.

Putting words in your mouth? Feel free to elaborate on this statement: "no body expected division titles in year 1 or 2 for sure, and even as promising as 2015 looked, the vast majority still felt TN was a year away."

Because to me that reads like you only want to take into account 2016 because that's the first year that you think a division title was even possible.

has absolutely nothing to do with anything i posted, but you come back to this a lot. we get it. being better than Dooley isn't enough. and i agree with that.

It's in reference to your seeming desire to exclude the 2013-14 seasons as criteria for evaluating CBJ's tenure at Tennessee.

if you fire everyone, you pay the buyout. and you might have to pay a buyout if you hire away a coach and staff from another program, but hey, details, details.

That's not actually true. Almost all assistant coach contracts have mitigation/off set clauses so that if they find employment with another program, the school is only responsible for paying them the amount of money to make up the difference, and in some some schools when they are fired, they don't have to pay them anything. Hell, even some head coaches have mitigation clauses. McElwain and Smart both get less on their buyout if they are get employment under certain conditions

you've obviously not read enough of my posts.

With your prolific post count, that's not humanly possible.

and he's still not getting fired next year if he goes to a bowl.

9-3 (5-3 SEC), still employed for another season
8-4 (4-4 SEC), 60/40 Currie is making his first coaching hire if he already has a replacement in mind.
7-5 (3-5 SEC) or worse, Butch is gone, and possibly before season end.

I'll reiterate my original statement getting to a bowl game in 2017 will not save CBJ's job if the team is at minimum bowl eligibility with a 6-6 record.

 

[jakez4ut]

Putting words in your mouth? Feel free to elaborate on this statement: "no body expected division titles in year 1 or 2 for sure, and even as promising as 2015 looked, the vast majority still felt TN was a year away."

Because to me that reads like you only want to take into account 2016 because that's the first year that you think a division title was even possible.



It's in reference to your seeming desire to exclude the 2013-14 seasons as criteria for evaluating CBJ's tenure at Tennessee.



That's not actually true. Almost all assistant coach contracts have mitigation/off set clauses so that if they find employment with another program, the school is only responsible for paying them the amount of money to make up the difference, and in some some schools when they are fired, they don't have to pay them anything. Hell, even some head coaches have mitigation clauses. McElwain and Smart both get less on their buyout if they are get employment under certain conditions



With your prolific post count, that's not humanly possible.



9-3 (5-3 SEC), still employed for another season
8-4 (4-4 SEC), 60/40 Currie is making his first coaching hire if he already has a replacement in mind.
7-5 (3-5 SEC) or worse, Butch is gone, and possibly before season end.

I'll reiterate my original statement getting to a bowl game in 2017 will not save CBJ's job if the team is at minimum bowl eligibility with a 6-6 record.

Key words : "to me".

Cause everyone expected division titles in 13 & 14. And I'm the only one that looked at 16 as the first year it was legitimately expected to win the division. It's just me. Gimmie a break.

 

[KBVol]

You just can't fire a coach with the kind of turn around that Butch has done here. What respectable coach would take a job where you fire a guy for going 5-7 7-6, 9-4 and 9-4 with the 3 consecutive losing seasons prior to his tenure? If Butch finishes with a Bowl win in 2017 there is no way that they fire him. He is solid until after 2018 as bad as most of you don't want to believe that(regardless of a 4-4 Conference record). No high level coach in the country would touch us with a 10 foot pole if we fired him right now!!

Talented roster, great facilities, great fan base, SEC.....and $4mm annual salary. Strongly disagree. It'd be a very attractive job for some high level coaches. Now, I seriously doubt the blithering idiots in charge over there would come close to hiring the right guy, but I think there would be plenty of top coaches interested in the job.

 

[BeardedVol]

Key words : "to me".

Cause everyone expected division titles in 13 & 14. And I'm the only one that looked at 16 as the first year it was legitimately expected to win the division. It's just me. Gimmie a break.

You've lost me on that one. When CBJ is shown the door at UT, it's not going to be because he didn't compete for the division in 13 and 14 its going to be because he wasn't competitive in the division during any season.