Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXII

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#7,278
#7,278
Women's BBall has more parity than it ever has. UCONN might have separated itself, but there's a hell of a lot more quality programs now. Elite eights aren't as much of a consolation prize.

Regardless with a non-revenue sport it's not worth it to pay a buyout unless Holly is completely torpedoing the program, which judging by the talent she continues to bring in she isnt
 
#7,279
#7,279
drvenner said:
My original MOS was 52D, Electric Power Generation Equipment Repairer. Then, I joined ROTC. I was commissioned and my basic branch was infantry, but I never served in an infantry unit. I branch transferred to Civil Affairs and stayed there until I retired. So, I am a POG as well.
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Were you with 489th CA BN?
 
#7,284
#7,284
Kristy* said:
I agree. It's not even fun to watch anymore. I understand why Holly got the job, with Pat's recommendation. But she clearly isn't the person for the job. She isn't winning with top-level recruits. And pretty soon she won't have those anymore.

Bringing in a new coach next year would give us a chance to compete again immediately. Any longer, and rebuilding may be necessary, which is just sad with the foundation in place when Warlick took over.
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She had everything on her resume you could want but I've always contended that Holly has never stepped out of the assistant role. She stayed there too long and relied on Pat to do all the HC heavy lifting. Now that it's her time she just doesn't know how to be a HC. She should've spent more time coaching elsewhere in her younger years and learning to be a leader. Now it's too late.
 
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#7,285
#7,285
UTProf said:
She had everything on her resume you could want but I've always contended that Holly has never stepped out of the assistant role. She stayed there too long and relied on Pat to do all the HC heavy lifting. Now that it's her time she just doesn't know how to be a HC. She should've spent more time coaching elsewhere in her younger years and learning to be a leader. Now it's too late.
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Exactly. The other question is why didn't any other program in the country take a chance on her during all the years she was under Pat? Pat had a gigantic, successful coaching tree, so why not Holly. I think there's a reason. Pat probably knew no one wanted her, so she recommended her, so that Holly could at least have a chance as a HC.

And I agree with Kristy...she acts like a spectator/fan on the sidelines, not a HC. When we beat USCe, she was celebrating like she didn't expect to win. As a HC, your emotions should always show that you expected to win, no matter who you play, and especially if you are the HC of the Lady Vols.
 
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#7,286
#7,286
OGbabyaviVol said:
Exactly. The other question is why didn't any other program in the country take a chance on her during all the years she was under Pat? Pat had a gigantic, successful coaching tree, so why not Holly. I think there's a reason. Pat probably knew no one wanted her, so she recommended her, so that Holly could at least have a chance as a HC.

And I agree with Kristy...she acts like a spectator/fan on the sidelines, not a HC. When we beat USCe, she was celebrating like she didn't expect to win. As a HC, your emotions should always show that you expected to win, no matter who you play, and especially if you are the HC of the Lady Vols.
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I think it was pretty clear that Holly had no intention of going elsewhere. I'm not sure but she was probably getting paid more to be an assistant here than she would've touched as HC elsewhere and it was known she was doggedly loyal to UT and Pat. I just can't see a scenario where she would've spent extended time away from either.

She's also an alum, a hoops alum and from here and a lot of us East, Tennesseans (even Knoxvillians) will be born, bred, and die in East, TN even when it makes sense to move (that goes double for people her age).

And yeah the spectator bit... I think that goes back to the assistant mindset. She was the 'good cop' to Pat's 'bad cop' and just can't seem to grow out of it. I think she's a better coach than she's given credit for but not the right one for the Lady Vols and certainly not good enough for a program of this stature (though I hate using terms like not good enough the exception is the LVs). I wish there was a way to instill a bit of hot iron into her personality as it would go a long way to help. She's too sweet and people pleasing, imo.

I honestly think that Pat thought she'd be fine. She was a good assistant after all. But I think Pat didn't realize how much her own force of will and discipline influenced things (sometimes we're poor judges of the influence we wield and all that we do).
 
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#7,289
#7,289
I've been. I was also lucky enough to attend a closed practice with bagged lunch because I had LVs in class. I got a nice note beforehand saying something to the effect that x LV student-athlete would like to share with you what they do outside of class and the work they put in (or something like that as my memory kinda fades there; think they mentioned something about seeing my work and wanting me to see their work outside of the classroom).

As an aside, I always got letters at least a week (usually 2) ahead of time informing me of when a LV would miss class and asking me very kindly if it was ok for them to borrow notes for the days they missed (something regular students do all the time and no crime). I was also asked (again not mandatory) to fill out a progress report at regular intervals so the student always knew where they were in class (I'm sure the LVs and Pat used that too).

It's also true that they sat at the front and were always on time to class and turned their assignments in on time. I was never asked for extra time to turn something in because of x happening unless they missed a test day but usually they'd try to take the test early or turn the assignment in early (they were organized). I've taught every kind of player and club member and never seen anything like it. The LVs were unlike anyone else.

I grew to adore having them in class.
 
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#7,294
#7,294
SergeantVol said:
Were you with 489th CA BN?
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My whole career, but I only deployed with them for Desert Storm. I went to Bosnia with the 401st and to Afghanistan with the 450th. Each time there were some others from the 489th with me, but the main body were the other units.
 
#7,295
#7,295
The deep flow of rationalization about Holly continues on here I see. I agree that UT will do nothing about her unless she stops making the dance. They will pretend they still are elite like they do in football. Just milk it for all they can. That's the UT way.
 
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#7,296
#7,296
As long as Holly has the support of the key LV donors and her loyalists in the administration, I don't think that she is going anywhere. I would hope that she would realize that she was not going to get it done and retire, but I also doubt that will happen. I just hope that the program has not fallen too far before she does leave, but I think that is a very frail hope.
 
#7,297
#7,297
Catbone said:
�� hilarious.

Question for you guys though. How many have actually been to a lady vols Bball game?
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I have not but mostly due to living six hours away. My aunt goes to pretty much every LV game. She is a tax accountant and doesn't hardly ever miss a game. The LV supporters are numerous and very passionate.
 
#7,300
#7,300
BigZiti09 said:
1. Making elite 8's won't get you fired.
3. It's a non revenue sport.
4. Doesn't matter. It was Pat's choice and because of that she will be given a longer leash.

I don't watch women's basketball but I am hoping Holly succeeds. Maybe it's because the people that hate her so much kinda irritate me. Or maybe it's cause it's fun to watch someone else want a coach fired besides the team I care about.
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1. If that's your ceiling it should get you fired as Lady VOLS coach. At most programs I would agree with you. We are supposed to be top 2, we should act like it.
3. See above post. Sometimes it isn't just about revenue, but also perception. The LVs are one of the things the university is nationally recognized for. We should do what is necessary to keep it elite, not just middle of the pack.
4. It's much more disrespectful to Pat and her legacy to keep letting the program sink. 5 years is PLENTY long enough to honor her wishes as Holly being her successor.

Does anyone think when geno retires that uconn would be happy with the occasional elite 8?

Much like the football program should, if you are supposed to be elite, act like it. That's the problem I have with it. Our administration doesn't care. They don't appear to have the desire to be elite at anything, and I don't care for that attitude.

Edit* I want to be clear that I like Holly and would love for her to be successful. I hate suggesting that coaches be fired because they put so much of their life into it. Especially someone like Holly who absolutely bleeds orange. But those in charge have to put the best interests of the program ahead of that.
 
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