Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXII

[rekinhavoc]

Who emerges as leaders on offense and defense in spring ball?

Who is going to surprise this spring?

 

[Outofmyvolcanmind]

In other words, if you do your main job well I don't pay attention to the stupid things you say in front of a microphone. When you suck at your job, I realize you suck and you say stupid things in front of a mic.

Typically only relevant people and positions of influence get this much attention.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

I know I could do some light skimming of the thread, but I'd rather someone break it down.

Any immediate impact players?

Did we feel needs?

:hat:

Likely scenario;

DL: above average / good
LB: above average / good
Secondary: average, with 1-2 good
QB: likely roster filler, but potential
OL: good, 1 top prospect
WR: talented, a bit undersized
TE: athletic project
RB: average, top prospect
Kicker/Punter: potentially excellent

 

[Glitch]

Yeah well my typical week is
Mon-Sun:
Toss daughter in air then catch her 5-10 reps of until I get tired
Squat to pick up daughter every time I need to pick her up
Sit-up with daughter when she jumps on me while I'm laying down ~50 times a day
And for cardio chase daughter until I puke

Also x3

11, 9, and 8. They each require their own bedtime routines. Bedtime rodeo for the youngest where I chase her around the room, catch her and pretend to calf rope her (she still tries to escape even though I explained that her hands and ankles are bound with invisible rope). Then goodnight robot for the middle one. She has her own robot that she does back and we discuss the best tasting oil to drink as robots. The oldest gets good night sloth. That takes awhile because I immerse myself in the part.

I feel like Kirk Lazarus.

 

[volinbama256]

It was a matter of time... folks now justifying 5* hearts quote... SMH

 

[volinbama256]

Likely scenario;

DL: above average / good
LB: above average / good
Secondary: average, with 1-2 good
QB: likely roster filler, but potential
OL: good, 1 top prospect
WR: talented, a bit undersized
TE: athletic project
RB: average, top prospect
Kicker/Punter: potentially excellent

Good evaluation.... the problem is we were a dumpster fire in the secondary this year and lost Malone... those two position groups should have been a larger focus or we just didn't seem to be able to recruit well at those places.... DL is a big concern as well.

 

[Glitch]

Who emerges as leaders on offense and defense in spring ball?

Who is going to surprise this spring?

John Kelly and Guantanamo on the O side in my opinion.

The D side is a little harder to call. They didn't really have a vocal on field leader with JRM on the side lines. DB was a quiet lead by example guy. It was mentioned that Labruzza was a natural leader but he has to earn his stripes yet. I'm thinking Kirkland is the natural choice but it is a guessing game for sure.

 

[Glitch]

Likely scenario;

DL: above average / good
LB: above average / good
Secondary: average, with 1-2 good
QB: likely roster filler, but potential
OL: good, 1 top prospect
WR: talented, a bit undersized
TE: athletic project
RB: average, top prospect
Kicker/Punter: potentially excellent

I think our secondary haul was really good. Plus we have talent on the team already. We just needed a competent DB coach to bring it all together. Hopefully CCW can make the needed improvements. It can't be much worse.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Joey Freshwater already doing his thing down at FAU...

https://twitter.com/keelangregg98/status/827754943620710401?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Joey Freshwater already doing his thing down at FAU...

https://twitter.com/keelangregg98/status/827754943620710401?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Dudes driven to find success in his field of endeavors

"Hang tight. I'll pull the Lexus around."

 

[Vols4us]

For the posi-Vols, this is not a negative post. It is a stars matter post. Per the "..cool it with stars" thread. appvol posted the link below from SDS.

13 years of SEC team recruiting rankings rolled into one: No. 6 Tennessee Volunteers - Saturday Down South

In summary:

UT was #14 in national recruiting rankings and #6 in the SEC using 247 composite when it started and Rivals prior to the composite. UT's actual wins average was 7 (rounded) from all seasons following the recruiting period stated of 2002-2014 in the article, which is the period of 2003-2015.

#14 in national recruiting rankings equals upper middle of the pack in the SEC in roster quality. My perception of high quality coaching is that it adds one win per season on average. Most everybody that knows anything about football's perceptions of poor quality coaching deducts one+ wins per season subject to Dools standards. Average coaching is neutral and provides 7-5 and 8-4 seasons with the period's roster quality. There could be all kinds of stats derived from the data. But in general, you are going to see everything from 5 to 10 win seasons with upper middle roster quality and average coaching.

In my mind all of the above proves without a shadow of a doubt that stars matter if the program desires to be a perineal top 10 program. If not, carry on.

It is safe to say that Butch is currently an average coach in the SEC, at UT, and in recruiting based on 5 seasons of work under his belt. That is not to say he cannot become a higher quality coach. It does mean he will need to depend on hiring better developers of talent and recruiters to get there because he does not demonstrate the personal ability to rise above that challenge in recruiting or in the W/L column on his own. Most coaches cannot overcome that. Based on recent and anticipated assistant hires, he appears to be doing what he needs to do in that area to upgrade with the proven ability to recruit (except Canales). The final piece to the puzzle in my mind is whether he will get out of their way and let them do their jobs. He has the right to interject whenever he wants, however, it is not always wise to do so unless requested by the coordinators.

All of this says to me to stay the course with Butch if the trajectory remains stable or moves up. This is especially true with the circus that exists in UT's executive and administrative offices, BOT, and boosters of the university. If Butch is terminated or leaves we all know they would likely botch it up. As many have already posted, 2018 recruiting is crucial to the future of the program as well as Butch's career at UT. So the answer on his ability to win at a higher level should be answered over the next 2-3 years.

 

[drvenner]

It was a matter of time... folks now justifying 5* hearts quote... SMH

What is wrong with evaluating it and coming to the conclusion that our lovely local journalists and twitter mafia have blown it out of proportion. I think that he was sending a message to some our signees that even though some think other players are better that we got who we wanted. Now, we had some misses, but he doesn't want to tell his team that, nor should he.

 

[Memphisvol87]

For the posi-Vols, this is not a negative post. It is a stars matter post. Per the "..cool it with stars" thread. appvol posted the link below from SDS.

13 years of SEC team recruiting rankings rolled into one: No. 6 Tennessee Volunteers - Saturday Down South

In summary:

UT was #14 in national recruiting rankings and #6 in the SEC using 247 composite when it started and Rivals prior to the composite. UT's actual wins average was 7 (rounded) from all seasons following the recruiting period stated of 2002-2014 in the article, which is the period of 2003-2015.

#14 in national recruiting rankings equals upper middle of the pack in the SEC in roster quality. My perception of high quality coaching is that it adds one win per season on average. Most everybody that knows anything about football's perceptions of poor quality coaching deducts one+ wins per season subject to Dools standards. Average coaching is neutral and provides 7-5 and 8-4 seasons with the period's roster quality. There could be all kinds of stats derived from the data. But in general, you are going to see everything from 5 to 10 win seasons with upper middle roster quality and average coaching.

In my mind all of the above proves without a shadow of a doubt that stars matter if the program desires to be a perineal top 10 program. If not, carry on.

It is safe to say that Butch is currently an average coach in the SEC, at UT, and in recruiting based on 5 seasons of work under his belt. That is not to say he cannot become a higher quality coach. It does mean he will need to depend on hiring better developers of talent and recruiters to get there because he does not demonstrate the personal ability to rise above that challenge in recruiting or in the W/L column on his own. Most coaches cannot overcome that. Based on recent and anticipated assistant hires, he appears to be doing what he needs to do in that area to upgrade with the proven ability to recruit (except Canales). The final piece to the puzzle in my mind is whether he will get out of their way and let them do their jobs. He has the right to interject whenever he wants, however, it is not always wise to do so unless requested by the coordinators.

All of this says to me to stay the course with Butch if the trajectory remains stable or moves up. This is especially true with the circus that exists in UT's executive and administrative offices, BOT, and boosters of the university. If Butch is terminated or leaves we all know they would likely botch it up. As many have already posted, 2018 recruiting is crucial to the future of the program as well as Butch's career at UT. So the answer on his ability to win at a higher level should be answered over the next 2-3 years.

I think butches avg is around 13 national ranking from 247 composite in his 5 years. Agree it's not bad but not elite. I think back to back 9 win seasons would point to butch being a better than average coach, not elite yet obviously. I still believe without the catostrophic injury bug we won at least one more game, which would have continued his upward trajectory. Hopefully this year we can get back on track. I also read quite a bit about butch " getting out of the way", and I don't understand why this is such a common phrase. At the end of the day, we have a coach with elite work ethic, willingness to make staff changes, and a desire to improve. I hope we take another step forward and lock down an elite class. Like you said, who knows what the AD will do with another football hire.

 

[bignewt]

Good evaluation.... the problem is we were a dumpster fire in the secondary this year and lost Malone... those two position groups should have been a larger focus or we just didn't seem to be able to recruit well at those places.... DL is a big concern as well.

Didnt recruit well at db? Ok pumpkin time for bed.

 

[Glitch]

What is wrong with evaluating it and coming to the conclusion that our lovely local journalists and twitter mafia have blown it out of proportion. I think that he was sending a message to some our signees that even though some think other players are better that we got who we wanted. Now, we had some misses, but he doesn't want to tell his team that, nor should he.

"Alright Team 121. We didn't get who we wanted in recruiting this year but..... we did get these guys. They are flashy and most of them basically suck according to our crappy fanbase but they are the best I will ever be able to recruit to UT because I am a mediocre coach."

- What the negas expect CBJ to say to the team at the start of fall camp

 

[Glitch]

Didnt recruit well at db? Ok pumpkin time for bed.

We got some really good DBs in this class. We also got a really good DB coach to teach them. Complaining for some people is needed like a mama cow needs to be milked. It becomes painful if it doesn't happen and could be messy.

 

[drvenner]

For the posi-Vols, this is not a negative post. It is a stars matter post. Per the "..cool it with stars" thread. appvol posted the link below from SDS.

13 years of SEC team recruiting rankings rolled into one: No. 6 Tennessee Volunteers - Saturday Down South

In summary:

UT was #14 in national recruiting rankings and #6 in the SEC using 247 composite when it started and Rivals prior to the composite. UT's actual wins average was 7 (rounded) from all seasons following the recruiting period stated of 2002-2014 in the article, which is the period of 2003-2015.

#14 in national recruiting rankings equals upper middle of the pack in the SEC in roster quality. My perception of high quality coaching is that it adds one win per season on average. Most everybody that knows anything about football's perceptions of poor quality coaching deducts one+ wins per season subject to Dools standards. Average coaching is neutral and provides 7-5 and 8-4 seasons with the period's roster quality. There could be all kinds of stats derived from the data. But in general, you are going to see everything from 5 to 10 win seasons with upper middle roster quality and average coaching.

In my mind all of the above proves without a shadow of a doubt that stars matter if the program desires to be a perineal top 10 program. If not, carry on.

It is safe to say that Butch is currently an average coach in the SEC, at UT, and in recruiting based on 5 seasons of work under his belt. That is not to say he cannot become a higher quality coach. It does mean he will need to depend on hiring better developers of talent and recruiters to get there because he does not demonstrate the personal ability to rise above that challenge in recruiting or in the W/L column on his own. Most coaches cannot overcome that. Based on recent and anticipated assistant hires, he appears to be doing what he needs to do in that area to upgrade with the proven ability to recruit (except Canales). The final piece to the puzzle in my mind is whether he will get out of their way and let them do their jobs. He has the right to interject whenever he wants, however, it is not always wise to do so unless requested by the coordinators.

All of this says to me to stay the course with Butch if the trajectory remains stable or moves up. This is especially true with the circus that exists in UT's executive and administrative offices, BOT, and boosters of the university. If Butch is terminated or leaves we all know they would likely botch it up. As many have already posted, 2018 recruiting is crucial to the future of the program as well as Butch's career at UT. So the answer on his ability to win at a higher level should be answered over the next 2-3 years.

Very reasonable post. NTL, D(id)R I agree he has been average. He did make three critical errors last year that likely cost us at least one and probably two wins.

1. He kept Martinez too long.
2. He fired Dave Lawson.
3. He encouraged Hurd to stay after the 2015 season.

I am hopeful and do believe that he learned from this season and am hopeful that he will trend upward. And, yes, 2018 on the field and in recruiting is critical. We really need a top 7 or higher class to prevent the train from starting to derail.

 

[Volnukem]

"Alright Team 121. We didn't get who we wanted in recruiting this year but..... we did get these guys. They are flashy and most of them basically suck according to our crappy fanbase but they are the best I will ever be able to recruit to UT because I am a mediocre coach."

- What the negas expect CBJ to say to the team at the start of fall camp

What I don't understand is how some of these people enjoy following UT football with this kind of attitude. It must be miserable. I'm a forever optimist when it comes to my hobbies.

I'm excited about the defense next year. It will be the most talented (247 composite) defense Butch has had in his time here. 2nd year in a system where a lot of backups got reps because of injuries. Shoop is a proven coach, too. Last year was a comedy of errors. Injuries and limited reps for backups in a new system. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm always going to be optimistic.

 

[InVOLuntary]

For the posi-Vols, this is not a negative post. It is a stars matter post. Per the "..cool it with stars" thread. appvol posted the link below from SDS.

13 years of SEC team recruiting rankings rolled into one: No. 6 Tennessee Volunteers - Saturday Down South

In summary:

UT was #14 in national recruiting rankings and #6 in the SEC using 247 composite when it started and Rivals prior to the composite. UT's actual wins average was 7 (rounded) from all seasons following the recruiting period stated of 2002-2014 in the article, which is the period of 2003-2015.

#14 in national recruiting rankings equals upper middle of the pack in the SEC in roster quality. My perception of high quality coaching is that it adds one win per season on average. Most everybody that knows anything about football's perceptions of poor quality coaching deducts one+ wins per season subject to Dools standards. Average coaching is neutral and provides 7-5 and 8-4 seasons with the period's roster quality. There could be all kinds of stats derived from the data. But in general, you are going to see everything from 5 to 10 win seasons with upper middle roster quality and average coaching.

In my mind all of the above proves without a shadow of a doubt that stars matter if the program desires to be a perineal top 10 program. If not, carry on.

It is safe to say that Butch is currently an average coach in the SEC, at UT, and in recruiting based on 5 seasons of work under his belt. That is not to say he cannot become a higher quality coach. It does mean he will need to depend on hiring better developers of talent and recruiters to get there because he does not demonstrate the personal ability to rise above that challenge in recruiting or in the W/L column on his own. Most coaches cannot overcome that. Based on recent and anticipated assistant hires, he appears to be doing what he needs to do in that area to upgrade with the proven ability to recruit (except Canales). The final piece to the puzzle in my mind is whether he will get out of their way and let them do their jobs. He has the right to interject whenever he wants, however, it is not always wise to do so unless requested by the coordinators.

All of this says to me to stay the course with Butch if the trajectory remains stable or moves up. This is especially true with the circus that exists in UT's executive and administrative offices, BOT, and boosters of the university. If Butch is terminated or leaves we all know they would likely botch it up. As many have already posted, 2018 recruiting is crucial to the future of the program as well as Butch's career at UT. So the answer on his ability to win at a higher level should be answered over the next 2-3 years.

Tennessee is a 8-9 win program with the occasional 7 & 10 win season. Butch is not the only reason for this. The primary reason is the UT administration and sphere of influence around the UT AD. In order to compete at very high level, championship level, it takes a coordinated desire to be the best. We simply don't have the people influential roles that care that much. There are some but for many it's not a priority. For some, it's a necessary evil.

I've said it before, the UT administration takes advantage of a very loyal fan base. It seems no matter what team is trotted out there, fans show up and spend money. It has to hit rock bottom for the administration to do something.

Back in the fall someone posted that Rick Neuheisel mentioned that Butch was dealing with some stuff he shouldn't have to. I believe it's lack of support from the university. That's why we have difficulty attracting coaches. We will never have a championship level program until that becomes a focus at UT. Will a new AD help? Who knows. It goes much beyond the athletic department.

 

[chavisut]

.

 

[chavisut]

Didn't realize UF finished so strong.

 

[SSVol]

It was a matter of time... folks now justifying 5* hearts quote... SMH

Because there is nothing wrong with it. He has probably come to realize that guts and competitiveness go further than talent.. Seems like we've had some 5 star talents with 1 star hearts. Looks good in recruiting, but bad on the field. Note that he didn't say that he doesn't want 5 star talent too.

 

[Glitch]

What I don't understand is how some of these people enjoy following UT football with this kind of attitude. It must be miserable. I'm a forever optimist when it comes to my hobbies.

I'm excited about the defense next year. It will be the most talented (247 composite) defense Butch has had in his time here. 2nd year in a system where a lot of backups got reps because of injuries. Shoop is a proven coach, too. Last year was a comedy of errors. Injuries and limited reps for backups in a new system. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm always going to be optimistic.

Yeah. I don't get it. I like my hobbies to make me happy and fullfilled. If my hobbies constantly made me feel negativity and anger, I think I'd find another hobby.

 

[theutvolunteers]

Because there is nothing wrong with it. He has probably come to realize that guts and competitiveness go further than talent.. Seems like we've had some 5 star talents with 1 star hearts. Looks good in recruiting, but bad on the field. Note that he didn't say that he doesn't want 5 star talent too.

People like that don't like critical thinking or nuance. Just vitriol.

 

[Headed For Home]

What I don't understand is how some of these people enjoy following UT football with this kind of attitude. It must be miserable. I'm a forever optimist when it comes to my hobbies.

I'm excited about the defense next year. It will be the most talented (247 composite) defense Butch has had in his time here. 2nd year in a system where a lot of backups got reps because of injuries. Shoop is a proven coach, too. Last year was a comedy of errors. Injuries and limited reps for backups in a new system. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm always going to be optimistic.

I agree. the late uSC touchdown was simply a blown coverage. Many of the big plays the D gave up were due to one or two guys being out of place. I expect to see huge improvement in that area for sure.