State of the Program

#51
#51
How about some perspective.

Fulmer won 147 games in his 16 year career not counting his partial year when covering for J. Majors.

That is a win average of 9.1875 wins per year.
Butch's career average is 8 wins 7.5 at Tennessee.

Fulmer walked into a dream when taking over at Tennessee Butch didn't. I am not saying that Butch will be a great coach but he still hasn't proven to be horrible one either.

If he continues to win 9 games he isn't going anywhere and that isn't settling for mediocricy either it is the standard that has been set at Tennessee by the most recent successful coach.

So Fulmer had a few 10, 11, and one perfect season but it was still peppered by a few 5's and 8 win seasons. The point is Butch hasn't been here long enough for anyone to be making assumptions about his ability to coach. while many decisions may leave us scratching our heads and we hate all of the coach speak, he came in to the worst situation most coaches ever have to experience, give him time to rebuild and fans shouldn't jump ship at the first sign of adversity. Oh wait this is VolNation it's full of experts, why am I wasting my breath?

Disclaimer: I am not comparing Butch to Fulmer I am simply using it as a point of reference to 9 games being an acceptable average for Tennessee per history.

Man you killed your argument with the disclaimer. If you are going to compare, own up to it. Don't try to candy coat it by saying you aren't. That's just like saying not to be rude, then you say something rude.

com·pare
kəmˈper/
verb
gerund or present participle: comparing
1.
estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between
 
#52
#52
Four seasons is enough time for a coach to turn the roster and put his own players on the field. It's enough time to recruit talent, develop players, cultivate leadership and establish a culture. It's enough time to evaluate a HC and his staff based on what they have accomplished... and what they have not. The issue is people look at the same results and form different opinions based on different expectations. An overall performance that is acceptable to some is unacceptable to others. So discord prevails.
 
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#53
#53
No one is suggesting that UT has somehow reached the mountain top or should be content but there is a huge difference between that and demanding that a coach be fired after back to back 9 win seasons. It's nonsensical and would set this program back even further than it already is. Not only are great coaches hard to come by but most aren't clamoring to come to UT. We are what we are and that is a good team trying to become a great team similar to about 20 other programs. This is not unique to UT nor is UT supremely qualified to hire a great coach simply because they have the money. It is all nothing more than a fantasy. UT has never been willing to pay the kind of money it would take to get an elite coach here so you will end up with a Jonesesque coach hoping that he can get it done 2-3 years down the road. That would set UT back another 5 years at the minimum and no true should want that for their program.
 
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#54
#54
How about some perspective.

Fulmer won 147 games in his 16 year career not counting his partial year when covering for J. Majors.

That is a win average of 9.1875 wins per year.
Butch's career average is 8 wins 7.5 at Tennessee.

Fulmer walked into a dream when taking over at Tennessee Butch didn't. I am not saying that Butch will be a great coach but he still hasn't proven to be horrible one either.

If he continues to win 9 games he isn't going anywhere and that isn't settling for mediocricy either it is the standard that has been set at Tennessee by the most recent successful coach.

So Fulmer had a few 10, 11, and one perfect season but it was still peppered by a few 5's and 8 win seasons. The point is Butch hasn't been here long enough for anyone to be making assumptions about his ability to coach. while many decisions may leave us scratching our heads and we hate all of the coach speak, he came in to the worst situation most coaches ever have to experience, give him time to rebuild and fans shouldn't jump ship at the first sign of adversity. Oh wait this is VolNation it's full of experts, why am I wasting my breath?

Disclaimer: I am not comparing Butch to Fulmer I am simply using it as a point of reference to 9 games being an acceptable average for Tennessee per history.

Perspective? If your gonna do that why not add everything else.

Jones "career" average doesn't mean anything to me. What he did at Central Michigan or Cincy doesn't hold any relevance to what he has done here. Not that either of those spots has really bolstered his career numbers.

Fulmer didn't last 16 years here just because he "averaged" 9+ wins.

Fulmer had 9 seasons with 10 or more wins and the rest that was "peppered" with lesser seasons averages out to 7.5 wins a season.

Butch's career average is 8 wins 7.5 at Tennessee.

Another lesser note would be that Fulmer played 11 game seasons during the majority of his best stretch.

Jones has yet to face UF or UGA at their high points like Fulmer did. The only thing Jones can claim is that the resurgence of Bama has taken place during his entire tenure and it had just started when Fulmer left. Of course Bama has yet to prevent Jones from winning the division.

As to some of the other. I posted this in another thread. I expected him to be better than Dooley (its hard to hire that bad twice). I never expected him to be Fulmer or really even get close. And that hasn't changed. He'll never win 10+ games a year 56% of the time. Right now I wondering if he can hit the lower end of just winning the division.
 
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#55
#55
State of the program? Had CBJ beaten USCjr and Vandy, IMO this class would have been a top 10 recruiting class. The mood on here and the media would be much more positive. Guess what, CBJ didn't win those games and now we are back to the 2015 off season with a worse recruiting cycle and a lot of doubts about about coach CBJ being able to get it done for 2017. His seat would be less hot, but I still think he keeps his job if he wins 8 games next year. If he wins next year and does make it to 2018, he has to win 10 games and be in the SECCG to keep his job. There's a lot of "ifs" in this post though.
 
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#56
#56
How about some perspective.

Fulmer won 147 games in his 16 year career not counting his partial year when covering for J. Majors.

That is a win average of 9.1875 wins per year.
Butch's career average is 8 wins 7.5 at Tennessee.

Fulmer walked into a dream when taking over at Tennessee Butch didn't. I am not saying that Butch will be a great coach but he still hasn't proven to be horrible one either.

If he continues to win 9 games he isn't going anywhere and that isn't settling for mediocricy either it is the standard that has been set at Tennessee by the most recent successful coach.

So Fulmer had a few 10, 11, and one perfect season but it was still peppered by a few 5's and 8 win seasons. The point is Butch hasn't been here long enough for anyone to be making assumptions about his ability to coach. while many decisions may leave us scratching our heads and we hate all of the coach speak, he came in to the worst situation most coaches ever have to experience, give him time to rebuild and fans shouldn't jump ship at the first sign of adversity. Oh wait this is VolNation it's full of experts, why am I wasting my breath?

Disclaimer: I am not comparing Butch to Fulmer I am simply using it as a point of reference to 9 games being an acceptable average for Tennessee per history.

I respectfully disagree with your logic. If your reasoning were correct then Florida should have never won division much less conference titles. They were a bad to mediocre program before the old ball coach came home to his school. I remember them not winning a game in a season. Things do change. We are not tied down to repeat history. Do you think Alabama will simply continue to win 12-14 games per year by osmosis after Saban? It wasn't that long ago that Bammer went 3-9 I believe. If we don't expect excellence in life, I can guarantee that mediocre/average will be our history 5 to 10 years from now. Heck, I remember Tennessee having 10 and 11 win seasons before Fulmer and Majors. Battles first 3 years were 11-1, 10-2, and 10-2. Unfortunately, he couldn't recruit.
 
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#57
#57
How about some perspective.

Fulmer won 147 games in his 16 year career not counting his partial year when covering for J. Majors.

That is a win average of 9.1875 wins per year.
Butch's career average is 8 wins 7.5 at Tennessee.

Fulmer walked into a dream when taking over at Tennessee Butch didn't. I am not saying that Butch will be a great coach but he still hasn't proven to be horrible one either.

If he continues to win 9 games he isn't going anywhere and that isn't settling for mediocricy either it is the standard that has been set at Tennessee by the most recent successful coach.

So Fulmer had a few 10, 11, and one perfect season but it was still peppered by a few 5's and 8 win seasons. The point is Butch hasn't been here long enough for anyone to be making assumptions about his ability to coach. while many decisions may leave us scratching our heads and we hate all of the coach speak, he came in to the worst situation most coaches ever have to experience, give him time to rebuild and fans shouldn't jump ship at the first sign of adversity. Oh wait this is VolNation it's full of experts, why am I wasting my breath?

Disclaimer: I am not comparing Butch to Fulmer I am simply using it as a point of reference to 9 games being an acceptable average for Tennessee per history.

Good points..shame it won't matter to some on here.
 
#58
#58
I respectfully disagree with your logic. If your reasoning were correct then Florida should have never won division much less conference titles. They were a bad to mediocre program before the old ball coach came home to his school. I remember them not winning a game in a season. Things do change. We are not tied down to repeat history. Do you think Alabama will simply continue to win 12-14 games per year by osmosis after Saban? It wasn't that long ago that Bammer went 3-9 I believe. If we don't expect excellence in life, I can guarantee that mediocre/average will be our history 5 to 10 years from now. Heck, I remember Tennessee having 10 and 11 win seasons before Fulmer and Majors. Battles first 3 years were 11-1, 10-2, and 10-2. Unfortunately, he couldn't recruit.

Yet Battle never won an SEC title. After taking over a successful program.

And Fulmer didn't sniff a division or conference title until his fifth season. After taking over a loaded program.

What I remember is a Tennessee team that has largely fallen short over the last forty years, except for a few glimpses of greatness.

It doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for more. But, I see so many overinflating our history.
 
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#59
#59
Witch Doctor say if they hid the recruiting rankings until yesterday all these FEW would have a point..they have been up and on the sites for months...what were they surprised about? other than another reason to whine..Fulmer didnt start after Dooley or he or anyone would have a couple bad years...disappointed..yes, but death spiral? lol. no we have a 5% of really dumb fans..period. lol funny how they act so shocked about the recruiting rankings (??) ,maybe tells on what they really know about sports (??)sounds like a bunch of grumpy old men mad they didnt get their pudding at the home today

Bones Never Lie.

Does Butch say some dumb stuff...well yes. he does and that dont help with our miserable old grumps
 
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#60
#60
Butch Jones and the Vols lost to Vandy and SCe in his 4th season as HC.

Pundits suggest that this is the reason Butch Jones and the Vols just had the worst recruiting class since Jones took over at UT.
 
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#61
#61
Under Dooley our program was like the one knocked out laying on the mat. At this point CBJ has gotten this program trying to get off its knees from the mat. Maybe in a stooped over position....still wobbly. But I don't believe the program will get up fully strong under CBJ. Oh and he had weak administration too.
 
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#62
#62
Everyone has opinions and mine is over the past couple of years I don't think Butch can get it done. Using his own words of "looking at a body of work" don't look like the team is advancing .
 
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#63
#63
Under Dooley our program was like the one knocked out laying on the mat. At this point CBJ has gotten this program trying to get off its knees from the mat. Maybe in a stooped over position....still wobbly. But I don't believe the program will get up fully strong under CBJ. Oh and he had weak administration too.

Witch Doctor sorry for being a butt the other night. lol
Witchies bad....


Bones Never lie
 
#68
#68
Former players, Alumni, and fellow vol fans:

Today on campus, a trainer spent extra time with a student athlete who needed it, and did his/her part to lift the physical ability of an individual to his maximum potential.

An coach flipped on the lights in his film room, and did his part to add to the more than 10 thousand hours of film on opponents.

A coordinator fine-tuned some of the best, most efficient individuals in the world, and did his part to help The University of Tennessee return to a once prominent program.

Today, I speak to you my fellow board members: for it is you, the fans, who make the state of this program strong.

Here are the results of the coaches efforts: The lowest recruiting class rating in over 4 years. A rebounding team who struggled down the stretch. A roster that’s looking to replace individuals leaving for the NFL. More in-state talent than we have ever seen before. And, for the first time in over 2 decades a winning streak in bowl games.

That’s why I believe this is a pivotal year for our program. After four years of grit and determined effort, The University of Tennessee is better-positioned for victory than previous regimes. However, an under performance in 2016, as well as an under performance in recruiting, leaves this program hanging by the thinnest of threads.

The question for everyone in this forum, running through every decision made this year, is whether this staff is going to help or hinder this progress. For several years now, this town has been consumed by a rancorous argument over the proper stars of the recruits, and coaching tactics. It’s an important debate – one that dates back to our the very founding of this board. But, when that debate prevents us from carrying out even the most basic functions of as a fan – when our differences shut down the celebration of our successes, or threaten the full faith and credit of our sources – then we are not doing right by The University of Tennessee.


In the coming months, let’s see where else progress can be made as a program. Let’s make this a year of victory and celebration of success. That’s what most fan want – for all of us in this forum to focus on the position battles, incoming freshmen, and the challenges ahead. And what I believe unites the people of this board, regardless of race or region or party, young or old, rich or poor, is the simple, profound belief in opportunity for all – the notion that if the players work hard and take responsibility, this team will get ahead.

Let’s face it: that belief has suffered some serious blows. Over more than three years, even before this past season hit, massive shifts in fan support had eliminated a lot of good, even-keeled, and rational opinions.

The coaches's jobs are to reverse these trends. It won’t happen right away, and we won’t agree on everything. But what needs to be offered today is a set of concrete, practical proposals to speed up growth, strengthen the fan base, and build new ladders that lead ton unprecedented success at UT. Some require University action, and I’m eager to welcome all courses of action taken to lead toward success. But The University of Tennessee does not stand still – and neither will I. So wherever and whenever I can take steps to expand opportunity for more open-mindedness toward our current state, I'll take it.


So let’s make that decision easier for all involved. Both a sunshine Pumpers and Negavols have argued that our program isnt where it needs to be, is riddled with wasteful, complicated coach speak that punish fans investing time in listening, and reward losses with symbolic recognition of the false titles of Champions of Life. Let’s flip that equation. Let’s work together to close those gaps in belief, end those senseless arguments between fans of the same team, and unify behind the common banner of Tennessee.

Many years ago, Butch Jones and staff set out to reverse a negative trend in the success of the UT football program. To that extent, they have succeeded. However, numerous decisions made, a season of lost expectations, and a subpar recruiting class, have left the program at a crossroads. There is no denying the fact that the state of the program has improved. However, the continued success of this program now falls on the coaching of these young individuals. The success of this program no longer falls to the hope of above expectation re ruining classes, and now falls to on the field success.


My fellow fans, times like this remind us that success has never come easy. Our pride, our fandom, has never been easy. Sometimes we stumble; we make mistakes; we get frustrated or discouraged. But for more than one hundred years, we have put those things aside and placed our collective shoulder to the wheel of progress – to create fan traditions unlike any other; to promote competition, and fairness, and good spirtsmanship, so that the words set to paper by our coaching staff are made real for every fan. The program we want for our kids – a rising tradition where hard work is plentiful within the program and fan support are strong; where prosperity is widely shared and opportunity for all lets us go as far as the terrace and sky boxes – none of it is easy. But if we support this team together; if we summon what is best in us, with our feet planted firmly in the stands today, but our eyes cast towards tomorrow – I know solidarity is within our reach. The success of our program rests on Butch Jones, the players, and staff. Let us unify in our support, and let the chips fall where they may.

Very well said my American Vol bro! This thread sounds like a good guide for all of us Vols, and for our great country AMERICA!🍊
 
#69
#69
I feel we are destined to be a 8-9-10 win team as a norm. That's not so bad. That means we could have a really good season or really bad season every 4th year or so. At an average of 9 wins we can recruit well enough to have a shot at a championship. And yes there may be a 7 win season every once and awhile. Lot of good teams do this.
We just had a tough year. It seems the stars were aligned then we hit a black hole. That's life! Get up, rub some dirt on it and move on.
Don't you know Butch is PO'd. He had momentum and got blindsided. Season below expectations and recruiting below expectations. I don't see him crying about it, just working his A off to fix it.
If you can improve the program a little each year you'll get your chance at a championship.
Butch doesn't have to be the best HC to win, he just has to hire the best staff. That doesn't mean splash.
 
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#70
#70
You don't need a great coach to a win the SEC, or to earn a spot in a New Years Six Bowl every year, or to even win ten games every season. You just need a coach with a five star heart...
 
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#72
#72
Summary - we can forget about ever beating Alabubba until recruiting improves significantly for several years. At the rate we are going the streak will easily hit 15 and maybe 20. Sorry to be a NegaVol
 
#74
#74
This recruiting class could EASILY be forgiven if Butch hadn't crapped the bed against SC or Vandy.

1 game would have changed everything.

I do feel for the idiots, if we win either game they feel better. I did feel that 10 wins forgives everything for the dum dums.
 
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